News Star Wars: Galactic Starcruiser Permanently Closed Fall 2023

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
It is impossible to discuss the postmortem of this experience without grappling with the decisions that informed its construction, chief among them the most recent spate of films.
Of course it is…

Every Star Wars topic goes back to the ground zero of top level mismanagement

You can’t “separate it”…and it’s immature to act as though trying to compartmentalize it makes a damn bit of difference.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

internet what GIF
 

Dutch Inn '76

Well-Known Member
They never did. Force Awakens was pretty bad, and basically torpedoed the rest of the trilogy because it gave the sequel almost nothing to work with. I wasn't the biggest fan of Last Jedi either, but I think Rian Johnson was hamstrung by the awful choices from Force Awakens.

Regardless of personal opinions about the films' quality, though, the biggest issue is that they didn't have any kind of overarching plan for the trilogy from the start. The plan of having three separate directors each make their own film and do whatever they wanted with it didn't make any sense.
Nope. It was Abrams' plan for Rey to meet Luke at the end of TFA amid a display of force power from Luke - but Clueless "Rian" had him look all sour instead so that he could totally screw the whole series in the next installment.

Don't get me wrong, TFA wasn't a good movie - but KK and RJ are the ones that ruined the sequel trilogy.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Nope. It was Abrams' plan for Rey to meet Luke at the end of TFA amid a display of force power from Luke - but Clueless "Rian" had him look all sour instead so that he could totally screw the whole series in the next installment.

Don't get me wrong, TFA wasn't a good movie - but KK and RJ are the ones that ruined the sequel trilogy.
Nah…sorry…Abrams is as sucky as anyone

Such a huge “fan” who did a straight up reboot.

No fan would do that.

He was a fan of his hero Steve’s wallet…nothing more

And now he’s much the worse for it. Deservedly
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
Nope. It was Abrams' plan for Rey to meet Luke at the end of TFA amid a display of force power from Luke - but Clueless "Rian" had him look all sour instead so that he could totally screw the whole series in the next installment.

Don't get me wrong, TFA wasn't a good movie - but KK and RJ are the ones that ruined the sequel trilogy.
Absolutely.
That hand off of the light saber at the end of TFA should have been used as a great moment in the next installment.
Rian having Luke dismissively toss it over his shoulder is symbolic of the way Disney tossed all of Star Wars over their shoulder.
 

Screamface

Well-Known Member
Nope. It was Abrams' plan for Rey to meet Luke at the end of TFA amid a display of force power from Luke - but Clueless "Rian" had him look all sour instead so that he could totally screw the whole series in the next installment.

Don't get me wrong, TFA wasn't a good movie - but KK and RJ are the ones that ruined the sequel trilogy.

RJ had to get them to remove Luke floating lots of boulders so he could use it at the end of his film with Rey.

I hope one day we get some proper account of what went on behind the scenes with the making of the sequels. So much of the discussions are conjecture and trying to piece together a narrative for the mess we got. Where people selectively choose to include or ignore things people have said to fit whatever narrative they prefer.

I believe the comments of the people behind TFA that there was some kind of a plan, and ideas they were working towards and set up that was thrown out and actively undermined by RJ and TLJ. The aforementioned original end scene of TFA of Rey approaching Luke floating giant boulders behind him perfectly illustrates that.

Others dismiss these comments and claim there was no plan or idea. When JJ says TROS was constructed from ideas adapted from the ideas of Ep 8 & 9 they had when they did TFA actually makes a lot of sense when you factor in all the detours and changes they'd have to make from TLJ. JJ has also talked about he made a mistake with TFA by not firmly establishing the ideas and concepts they had. Which was in relation to how TLJ wasn't forced to stick firmly to their ideas.
 
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RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
I'll never, ever understand people disliking Luke's arc in Last Jedi; frankly, it's the only part of the movie that really clicked for me. Honestly, the best thing Johnson did was take all the "surprise boxes" Abrams left after episode 7, all those things they clearly had no thought-out plans for whatsoever (e.g. who is Snoke, who are Rey's parents, blah blah blah), and smash them in favor of asking "Is this really all Star Wars can be? Light side vs. Dark side and Rebels vs. Empire, on repeat forever? Can't we do something different? Can't we tell different stories?" And heck, If Last Jedi had ended at the end of its second act, with Rey being offered to join Ben working as a cliffhanger, I'd have actually liked it as a film.

Instead, the third act happened, and it pretty much felt like corporate swooped in and said "Uh, no, it will always be Light vs. Dark and Rebels vs. Empire, so make sure the ending reassures the audience of that."

I remember going into Force Awakens and being really interested in what the galaxy would look like under a New Republic, with all its included challenges and quirks, and quickly realizing "oh no, we're just going back to the original trilogy status quo, aren't we?" Last Jedi got my hopes up that they recognized that couldn't be the way going forward, only to chicken out at the last minute. Couldn't have cared less about episode 9 at that point.

...and c'mon, folks, the prequels were terrible. They had some good ideas behind them, but they were executed horrendously, and I say that as someone who was only in middle school when episode 1 came out.
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
I'll never, ever understand people disliking Luke's arc in Last Jedi; frankly, it's the only part of the movie that really clicked for me. Honestly, the best thing Johnson did was take all the "surprise boxes" Abrams left after episode 7, all those things they clearly had no thought-out plans for whatsoever (e.g. who is Snoke, who are Rey's parents, blah blah blah), and smash them in favor of asking "Is this really all Star Wars can be? Light side vs. Dark side and Rebels vs. Empire, on repeat forever? Can't we do something different? Can't we tell different stories?" And heck, If Last Jedi had ended at the end of its second act, with Rey being offered to join Ben working as a cliffhanger, I'd have actually liked it as a film.

Instead, the third act happened, and it pretty much felt like corporate swooped in and said "Uh, no, it will always be Light vs. Dark and Rebels vs. Empire, so make sure the ending reassures the audience of that."

I remember going into Force Awakens and being really interested in what the galaxy would look like under a New Republic, with all its included challenges and quirks, and quickly realizing "oh no, we're just going back to the original trilogy status quo, aren't we?" Last Jedi got my hopes up that they recognized that couldn't be the way going forward, only to chicken out at the last minute. Couldn't have cared less about episode 9 at that point.

...and c'mon, folks, the prequels were terrible. They had some good ideas behind them, but they were executed horrendously, and I say that as someone who was only in middle school when episode 1 came out.

Rian always gets blamed for J.J. decisions.

Rian considered who Rey's parents could be and decided there was no existing connection that made sense. J.J. seemed to then pull an idea out of nowhere, and then it didn't really go anywhere. There was never an inkling it mattered to Rey as a choice to be made. Having Rey go with Kylo as a cliffhanger would have at least benefitted from an established relationship.

J.J. put Luke in exile. Rian gave him a story arc in which he returned to the fight.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Rian always gets blamed for J.J. decisions.

Rian considered who Rey's parents could be and decided there was no existing connection that made sense. J.J. seemed to then pull an idea out of nowhere, and then it didn't really go anywhere. There was never an inkling it mattered to Rey as a choice to be made. Having Rey go with Kylo as a cliffhanger would have at least benefitted from an established relationship.

J.J. put Luke in exile. Rian gave him a story arc in which he returned to the fight.
JJ wanted to show Luke lifting rocks all over showing that he hadn’t given up on the Force. Rian wanted JJ to change that to fit the story idea that Rian had.

All we knew from TFA was that Luke went in search of the first Jedi temple. Rian made the reason being exile.

Edit: JJ has his own problems that he caused. None of these are them.
 
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Screamface

Well-Known Member
JJ wanted to show Luke lifting rocks all over showing that he hadn’t given up on the Force. Rian wanted JJ to change that to fit the story idea that Rian had.

All we knew from TFA was that Luke went in search of the first Jedi temple. Rian made the reason being exile.

Edit: JJ has his own problems that he caused. None of these are them.

It's one of the things that annoys me with the discourse, people putting choices RJ made as inevitable when the complete opposite would have made more sense in most cases.

The film always seemed to me like he wrote down the most obvious continuation/ending for things set up and just did the opposite. Right from the start of the opening crawl, "The First Order Reigns Supreme" felt like the opposite of what should have been happening.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I'll never, ever understand people disliking Luke's arc in Last Jedi; frankly, it's the only part of the movie that really clicked for me. Honestly, the best thing Johnson did was take all the "surprise boxes" Abrams left after episode 7, all those things they clearly had no thought-out plans for whatsoever (e.g. who is Snoke, who are Rey's parents, blah blah blah), and smash them in favor of asking "Is this really all Star Wars can be? Light side vs. Dark side and Rebels vs. Empire, on repeat forever? Can't we do something different? Can't we tell different stories?" And heck, If Last Jedi had ended at the end of its second act, with Rey being offered to join Ben working as a cliffhanger, I'd have actually liked it as a film.

As a huge Star Wars fan I don't want my Star Wars movies to be "different". Star Wars is comfort food, it relies on classic themes like Light vs Dark and that's what makes it work. I think at one point Johnson said he wanted to "subvert expectations"; I don't want my expectations subverted. There is plenty of room to explore new ideas in the books and TV shows.
 

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
As a huge Star Wars fan I don't want my Star Wars movies to be "different". Star Wars is comfort food, it relies on classic themes like Light vs Dark and that's what makes it work. I think at one point Johnson said he wanted to "subvert expectations"; I don't want my expectations subverted. There is plenty of room to explore new ideas in the books and TV shows.
You can still have lightsaber fights and space dogfights, but I just wanted to see a galaxy changed in some way after the events of the original trilogy, which admittedly is how I experienced things as a kid who read the extended universe books - the heroes would still get into trouble, there was still an Imperial remnant, but there were other challenges out there and a different dynamic when you had the heroes' side win out and then face the challenges of governing a fractured galaxy.

Instead, by starting episode 7 and smashing the giant reset button by having the First Order immediately destroy the New Republic and putting us right back into Empire vs. Rebels again, it told me "the original trilogy didn't matter". I didn't mind Force Awakens when I first saw it in theaters, but it took about a week's worth of thinking about it for that to really eat at me.
 

Screamface

Well-Known Member
The Empire vs Rebel aspect was a big mistake, although it wasn't set in stone in TFA. It's just how it focused. Ep 8 could have flipped the script. The First Order is on the run after a crushing defeat, it then lures the large Republic fleet into the Unknown Regions where we discover the true threat which ends with a crushing defeat. With the final film being about stopping the threat.

Which I actually think was some version of what was original planned if you take JJ's word that TROS is based on his ideas.
 
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cjkeating

Well-Known Member

easyrowrdw

Well-Known Member
Assigning “blame” for Luke’s character in the sequels seems silly to me. Luke, disillusioned in exile so to speak was something Lucas had in his plans. And from what I read (from neither JJ or RJ), the model of Col Kurtz from Apocalypse Now was in the plans from the early Disney meetings. He was to going to be this way no matter who was making the movies.
 
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