Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Both things were creepstown…and they approved, shot it, released it…yoi
Han Solo was always a tad overrated…if we’re honest
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News Star Wars Galactic Starcruiser coming to Walt Disney World 2021
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Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Well that’s an awful movie. They tried 9 times…and planted most in that column
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Heh. The desire not to "mess with the formula" provides one of the key, very metatextual themes of The Last Jedi. Most of the characters try not to "mess with the formula" and it ends disastrously for each of them.
There's no point in simply remaking classic, beloved, widely-seen films - which is largely what The Force Awakens tried to do. You need to respect the past while building something new - the point of The Last Jedi. But then Disney became terrified of some nasty people online and made a series of absolutely abysmal attempts at placating them, producing the single worst Star Wars film ever created.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
You’re blaming the fans for the last Jedi!?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I have fundamental problems with that and it had nothing to do with Laura dern or the female admiral
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Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
No, I’m blaming Disney’s reaction to the fans for The Rise of Skywalker. The Last Jedi is far and away the best of the sequels and the best Star Wars film outside of the original trilogy.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
No
It’s crap. You can keep saying it…it was all wrong. Nothing about that movie fit Star Wars. Not one damn bit.
if you’re “tired of old Star Wars”…then you’ve moved past it. That’s ok…but the goal post never moved. The studios try to move them to attempt to secure “new fan bases”…and fail. It’s becoming near definition of insanity time.
not one thing in it was well thought, executed, and a lot of it was frankly cynical on an offensive level. That’s not “clever” it’s symbolic of the social media world we live in where people with zero actual issues become hyper critical of Nonsense.
let me put it this way: undoing the entire Jedi canon is no less weird than if Disney were to give Mickey Mouse a new backstory overnight and giving no reason why?
would fans on this board accept that? Of course not.
That was crap from an amateur who was out of his lane and kennedy/abrams didn’t stop it. I’ll assume they didn’t read the scripts or watch the dailies…
Or more likely - have never talked to a reasonably intelligent Star Wars fan not in cosplay and/or completely misread the box office in 2015 as a “mandate” that it was not.
you don’t crap on luke Skywalker…lesson that was not needed to be taught.
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Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Too big of a can of worms there
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I think Revenge of the Sith might be better than The Last Jedi, but I also don't think Last Jedi really works. In a vacuum it's a decent movie -- not great, because just about every part of the Canto Bight plotline is bad and feels like it fell out a separate movie -- but it didn't really go anywhere interesting or do anything new for Star Wars (not suggesting that the other films did either; I just see that mentioned as a plus for the Last Jedi and it's never made sense to me). Rian Johnson is a very good filmmaker but I think it's his worst film.
With that said, The Force Awakens is a large part of The Last Jedi's problem. It gave him almost nothing to work with; that movie set up the rest of the trilogy to fail by resetting the galaxy to the original movies. There just wasn't much room to do anything interesting from that starting point. If anyone deserves the lion's share of the blame for the overall failure of the sequel trilogy, it's JJ Abrams.
I think the prequel trilogy is a lot more interesting (not the same as saying they're better) than the sequel trilogy. The movies are worse from a filmmaking standpoint for the most part (the scripts and direction are quite bad) but they're bad in an interesting way. The underlying plots are honestly pretty good, and there's an alternate universe where the prequels are excellent films because Lucas let other talented people direct the movies and write the scripts based off of his plot treatments. The sequel trilogy is generally well made but in a bland, mostly directionless way. For better or worse, the prequels are very much the artistic output of a single visionary with all the good and bad that entails. The sequels feel more like something put together by a corporate committee.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Mickey Mouse is an icon, not a character. A character, particularly one who remains interesting over multiple films, needs flaws and challenges. Fans wanted the perfect Luke of their nostalgia to swing in, be perfect at the start and remain perfect throughout. That's not a character, that's not a film. Johnson made Luke into the most interesting CHARACTER he's ever been. A more apt analogy then Mickey Mouse would be James Bond - across the recent run of unprecedentedly commercially and popularly successful films, the once static character has been allowed to be flawed and vulnerable and to develop. That's storytelling.
The Jedi have been flawed across every film in the series. Every criticism Luke levels against them is right there, in the previous films. Their obsession with stoicism and the elimination of all emotional connections has proved disastrous again and again. Heck, Luke succeeded by disobeying Yoda and prioritizing his connection to Han and Leia, and that connection was what allowed him to defeat the Emperor and redeem his father. His inability to realize that this demonstrated a fatal flaw in the Jedi order and his attempt to replicate that order without revision led to disaster. The revered Filoni, in the recent Boba episode he directed, played up this fact. Dealing with the very obvious problems with the Jedi, problems that have been shown again and again, is really one of the only ways the franchise can go if it wants to remain interesting.
And calling Johnson an "amateur" is just absurd.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of this is correct, though I think the Canto Bight sequences, while the weakest of the film, work better then you seem to. Johnson was inarguably handcuffed by Force, but I do think he pointed a way forward - the Jedi order and the Republic needed to be reformed, not merely rebuilt, with the flaws of the old version addressed. Metatextually, the franchise needed to stop making the same movie every time. This seemed like the logical way forward for the franchise, and The Last Jedi laid out a path forward - but Disney and Abrams got cold feet.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Breaking news: no Star Wars movie was ever “in a vaccum” since Jimmy carter was around.
isn’t it silly to look at them that way, isn’t it??
why even go there?
isn’t it silly to look at them that way, isn’t it??
why even go there?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
You just proved my point. Definitively
and they nuked everything in TFA!!! how do you reform
Something that you eliminated to sell
Slightly modified toys?!?
it was such a rudderless ship that each movie was worse than the previous.
they’re unwatchable and devoid of any real signature moments.
It’s been years…this idea that “people didn’t understand it” or don’t get Disney+ in moms basement to appreciate will get no more traction than the idea phantom menace or attack of the clones will get “better with time”
they won’t…we just had these discussions without a smart phone at a Starbucks or a bar back then.
nothing changed. And then they closed the book.
sedati
Well-Known Member
Wow...
So did every writer who was out of work then The Weekly World News went out of business just rebound by making up Lucasfilm hatefic? So many deep and cyclical rabbit holes. I tried to post the "Pepe Silvia" meme here, but the internet rejected it on grounds of being far too subtle a reference for the scope of conspiratorial madness on display here. At least Zeroh, Theory, and their ilk get paid to spend their day hate-splaining.
So did every writer who was out of work then The Weekly World News went out of business just rebound by making up Lucasfilm hatefic? So many deep and cyclical rabbit holes. I tried to post the "Pepe Silvia" meme here, but the internet rejected it on grounds of being far too subtle a reference for the scope of conspiratorial madness on display here. At least Zeroh, Theory, and their ilk get paid to spend their day hate-splaining.
Rosso11
Well-Known Member
I have a bit of a unique inside perspective on this because I had a pretty in-depth conversation with Harrison Ford about this topic. I was extremely lucky to have had a private lunch with Harrison August of 2013. We spoke a lot about Star Wars and how he was signed up for months at that point to reprise his role but Disney still had not made an official announcement yet. I asked him about the history and rumor about him not not enjoying playing Han Solo and he said that couldn’t be further from the truth. When they were filming Return of the Jedi he did try to persuade George Lucas to not have him survive the final battle. He felt it would have made a much more emotional ending if they all didn’t survive and his character made the most sense to sacrifice. George obviously didn’t agree but the story got out there over the years. He said it became a big joke on late night shows that he wanted to be killed off because he didn’t like playing Han so he has played up that story for laughs. The truth is he loved his time playing the character and that’s why he signed back up right away. Harrison said at that point in his life and I would assume still to this day he only picks rolls that he thinks he will enjoy doing. He said he has more money than he can ever spend and he wasn’t interested in winning anymore awards. At the end of his career he just wants have fun and enjoy acting. That is the sole reason he picks what roles he does now. That’s why he immediately said yes to retuning to play Han Solo, now in two different sequel films The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker and if the rumors are true he’ll be making an apearance in future Dianey+ shows. However he did admit as much as he loves playing Han his heart is playing Indiana. The way he talked about Indiana it sounded like he would play the character up until he was physically dead if Disney would let him.
matt9112
Well-Known Member
Nah your wrong. Rogue one was the best outside the OT.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
That’s just the opinion of Star Wars fans
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