Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker Reactions: SPOILERS

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The current estimate puts this movie at $494 million domestically by MLK Monday. $7 million less than Rogue One (which had a better holiday weekend) by the same time. RotS now seems guaranteed to make less than that movie in the US. With an $11 million foreign weekend, it also looks like the movie is effectively done its box office run and will probably not hit $1.1 billion worldwide.

Making $250+ million less than Last Jedi worldwide was not what I was expecting a year ago. If someone had told me the Aladdin remake and Star Wars IX were going to make about the same amount of money I would have thought they were crazy given how badly the teaser for Aladdin was received and how much hype there was for Star Wars.

Disney is probably relieved that it did hit a billion worldwide so they can still hype that achievement, but I don't think they're happy that Olaf turned out to be a more popular character than Rey or Kylo Ren with 2019 general audiences.

There’s is no way to spin this as “good” “expected” or an “achievement”

Disney has failed to this point at Star Wars...an erratic, non-resonance sequel trilogy that was both a redo AND messed with everything at the same time...one standalone they treated like the stepchild and questioned its acceptance...and a BOMB in the millennium falcon.

Right...streaming was the plan all along

 

[Tony Perkis]

Said in response to a critique of Jedi originally published in 1997, before the prequels were released.

Then dismissed by a nonsense idea that criticizing Jedi was somehow a technique to defend the prequels? What? The prequels were harshly criticized.

Jedi is a flawed movie with some really bad elements. The criticisms are valid and have nothing to do with any other movie.

Do some people really believe that criticisms with the Ewoks and the excruciatingly slow opening act began in 1999?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Do some people really believe that criticisms with the Ewoks and the excruciatingly slow opening act began in 1999?

Ewok criticisms existed long before 1999...but Jedi was generally accepted and not picked apart nonetheless...nobody thought the resolution and characters were chumps

But then, “Jedi’s not great!” Became some stupid rallying cry for the awful cgi sequels...

And now...it’s gonna be used as a Disney defense for the nearly as bad sequels. Here it comes.

Memories are a really hard thing to ignore if you’re not into excuses

 

[Tony Perkis]

Ewok criticisms existing long before 1999...but Jedi was generally accepted and not picked apart nonetheless...nobody thought the resolution and characters were chumps

But then, “Jedi’s not great!” Became some stupid rallying cry for the awful cgi sequels...

And now...it’s gonna be used as a Disney defense for the nearly as bad sequels. Here it comes.

Memories are a really hard thing to ignore if you’re not into excuses

This isn’t a reality.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This isn’t a reality.

...says the guy claiming last Jedi was a great movie...

All the world evidence to the contrary

 

[Tony Perkis]

...says the claiming last Jedi was a great movie...

All the world evidence to the contrary

You are aware that film criticism is not an objective court case, right?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You are aware that film criticism is not an objective court case, right?

I’m aware that the narrative has changed drastically as Star Wars has slid downhill.

And that’s ok...as long as we don’t mine the past looking for current outrage. That is what bringing up return of the Jedi to compare to any of this KK nonsense does...

 

[Tony Perkis]

I’m aware that the narrative has changed drastically as Star Wars has slid downhill.

And that’s ok...as long as we don’t mine the past looking for current outrage. That is what bringing up return of the Jedi to compare to any of this KK nonsense does...

Do you establish what the narratives are in your head? Because half the narratives you spout aren’t based on anything.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Do you establish what the narratives are in your head? Because half the narratives you spout aren’t based on anything.

My head manages to be perceptive on occasion...

Like the Star Wars land was gonna miss on theme - it did...

And both 7, 8 and 9 were all “Off” and it appears that appears to be the case as well

We will never agree on this now...but if we sit back and watch for maybe a couple of years...one of us will move the other way, eventually.

Very hard to make a case of Disney meeting or exceeding expectations with Star Wars at this point...may need to invent new math for that...however.

 

[RobWDW1971]

... and the lack of a proper send off for a guy in a fish mask....

Kathleen Kennedy, is that you?!

 

[RobWDW1971]

Ewok criticisms existing long before 1999...but Jedi was generally accepted and not picked apart nonetheless...nobody thought the resolution and characters were chumps

But then, “Jedi’s not great!” Became some stupid rallying cry for the awful cgi sequels...

And now...it’s gonna be used as a Disney defense for the nearly as bad sequels. Here it comes.

Memories are a really hard thing to ignore if you’re not into excuses

As someone who played hooky and went to see ROTJ on opening day and actually lived through that era, this is the most stunning revisionist history I’ve ever heard.

I worked at a movie theater where Jedi played so I heard the responses all day, every day. At the time, the only criticism you heard about Jedi was the “teddy bears” - but that was made up 1000 times over by Leia in the slave outfit for the entire first act

People loved it at the time, it was a great ending to the saga, it resolved the Luke/Vader conflict and journey beautifully and was a fun ride.

Next, we will be told how we all hated Raiders and Ghostbusters at the time to make them feel better about Crystal Skull and Ghostbusters 2016.

Idiotic.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As someone who played hooky and went to see ROTJ on opening day and actually lived through that era, this is the most stunning revisionist history I’ve ever heard.

At the time, the only criticism you heard about Jedi was the “teddy bears”, but that was made up 1000 times over by Leia in the slave outfit for the entire first act.

People loved it at the time, it was a great ending to the saga, it resolved the Luke/Vader conflict and journey beautifully and was a fun ride.

Next, we will be told how we all hated Raiders and Ghostbusters at the time to make them feel better about Crystal Skull and Ghostbusters 2016.

Idiotic.

Yep...the Ewoks and the bow and arrow battle was silly...

But nobody cared...because the rest of the movie was the coolest thing we had ever seen...

Heck, 2/3 of that last battle still plays well enough.


The excuses made for people in Hollywood not being able to tell there head from their on Star Wars is frankly silly.

Disney has sucked...say it.
Demand better.
Move on.
The end.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Kathleen Kennedy, is that you?!

People that don’t get the pull of the akbar character...frankly don’t get Star Wars at all

...nor do those that defend them.

 

[flynnibus]

Exactly. So many people were talking about fatigue, then celebration sells out in 20min or so. I just don't buy it.

You’re compating ane event of about 10,000 fans... to movies that need to sell 10s of millions of tickets from the larger general population?

 

[flynnibus]

Some of it is nitpicking for sure, but a lot of it isn't. The attempts at comedy are really bad. They destroyed the Millenium Falcon because they decided using Matte paintings would look just as good, and we subsequently get Lando walking towards what is obviously a painting. That level of cheapness isn't what I'd expect from Star Wars, and that's just one example. Again, this is a movie that is redeemed by a great final act, but it's also a movie in which Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight, can't escape from a net and is almost incinerated by Ewoks.

One point of this is, it's not as easy to make a perfect Star Wars movie as so many people think. For a franchise that arguably had two good movies, and four lesser ones, the expectations for the new films was set impossibly high.

And if you think that's too much nitpicking towards Jedi, I'll remind you people are still complaining about what Holdo is wearing and the lack of a proper send off for a guy in a fish mask, two years later.

I like Jedi despite its' flaws, just as I like the new films in the same way. A lot of people would be happier if they could enjoy the movies more for what they are, and lose the intense hatred over what they aren't.

Im not gonna say jedi is flawless... but that 50item list was pretty pathetic. I couldnt even get through half of it.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Some quotes from reviews of ROTJ from '83:

Because so much of "Return of the Jedi" concentrates on makeup and special effects, and perhaps also because much of the dialogue (and acting) is so bad, it is pretty hard to get too involved with the characters, who came across with much more human interest in "The Empire Strikes Back,"

"Return of the Jedi," written by Lawrence Kasdan and Lucas and directed by Richard Marquand, doesn't really end the trilogy as much as it brings it to a dead stop. The film, which opens today at Loews Astor Plaza and other theaters, is by far the dimmest adventure of the lot.
[…]
The narrative line is virtually nonexistent, and the running time, though only slightly more than two hours, seems longer than that of "Parsifal."
[…]
"Return of the Jedi," … contains some battles that are more busy than violent and one death scene that evokes no emotional response whatsoever.

Ultimately, "Jedi" even backs off some of the more tantalizing possibilities suggested by the cliffhanging scenario of "Empire." This Lucas' apparent reluctance to take any big chances with the scenario in "Jedi," which shies away from the darker, tangled implications of the unanswered questions in "Empire," is easy to comprehend. He's so protective of the public attachment to his dream world that he resists taking many fresh risks or unfamiliar paths. The stakes are so huge that he'd be foolish to deny the audience a 100 percent reassuring wrap-up.

Although Return of the Jedi is officially Part VI of George Lucas's projected Star Wars nonogy, it's actually, of course, the third to have been filmed, completing the central triad of his ambitious undertaking. Unfortunately, it conveys the sense that the machinery has already started to wear down, and the inventiveness to wear thin. To be sure, the film abounds in action. Some new peril besets Luke Skywalker, Han Solo or the Princess Leia almost too regularly every 10 minutes. But there's a kind of desperation about it, a feeling that Lucas and co-writer Lawrence Kasdan are simply trying to figure out what they can do next to amuse the kiddies.
[…]
There was nothing of the wonder or the magic that happened when we first glimpsed the wise and wizened face of Yoda, or even the dread figure of Darth Vader.
[…]
(D)espite director Richard Marquand's avowed intention of creating "real relationships and real action that stem from real emotions," (it) is essentially the fault of the script, which constantly opts for action and blunts the relationships

I'm not here to say that Revenge of the Jedi is a bad movie (personally I think it's good) or that the majority of critics hated it in 1983 (which isn't true). But more to make light of how often I see in fandom, people claim that because everyone that they knew when they were 10 liked it, that no one hated it before X thing happened and suddenly everyone started hating it.

It's not unusual at all for fanbases centered around a 20+year old piece of media, I've seen prequel fanboys acts as if the prequels only started being hated by the fanbase around 2009 or so. I don't think I have to point out how wrong that is.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Some quotes from reviews of ROTJ from '83:




I'm not here to say that Revenge of the Jedi is a bad movie (personally I think it's good) or that the majority of critics hated it in 1983 (which isn't true). But more to make light of how often I see in fandom, people claim that because everyone that they knew when they were 10 liked it, that no one hated it before X thing happened and suddenly everyone started hating it.

It's not unusual at all for fanbases centered around a 20+year old piece of media, I've seen prequel fanboys acts as if the prequels only started being hated by the fanbase around 2009 or so. I don't think I have to point out how wrong that is.

Was that the “consensus”...or the outliers?

As we learned with 7 and 8...you can’t even trust the consensus at times

Lastly, those only went to those markets in print. Reviews are more powerful now - potentially.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Was that the “consensus”...or the outliers?

As we learned with 7 and 8...you can’t even trust the consensus at times

Lastly, those only went to those markets in print. Reviews are more powerful now - potentially.

Just admit you are incorrect. There were valid criticisms of ROTJ as early as 1983, and it was not due to a reaction to the prequels.

 

[RobWDW1971]

Some quotes from reviews of ROTJ from '83:




I'm not here to say that Revenge of the Jedi is a bad movie (personally I think it's good) or that the majority of critics hated it in 1983 (which isn't true). But more to make light of how often I see in fandom, people claim that because everyone that they knew when they were 10 liked it, that no one hated it before X thing happened and suddenly everyone started hating it.

It's not unusual at all for fanbases centered around a 20+year old piece of media, I've seen prequel fanboys acts as if the prequels only started being hated by the fanbase around 2009 or so. I don't think I have to point out how wrong that is.

Oh, wait! The film critic from NY Times in 1983 didn’t like it! Well, I take back everything I said. Please let me know what the New Yorker said as well as those certainly reflected the opinions of the masses on 1970’s and 80’s on fun popcorn flicks.

Good lord the desperation here...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just admit you are incorrect. There were valid criticisms of ROTJ as early as 1983, and it was not due to a reaction to the prequels.

And yet...it was universally accepted, rewatched a billion times, merched the hell of of...and 10x the movie of any Star Wars since.

You’re attempting to win a battle...frankly that I’m not fighting.

I’m not saying there was no criticism of Jedi...there was. What I’m saying is it grew in frequency after the new stuff started to come out as a justification of them. Somehow it’s a “crutch” for first prequel defenders...and I’m going to guess Disney defenders as well. Jedi was never loathed by significant portions of the fan/movie goers.
That has not been the case since.

It’s a retcon. But again...we won’t agree. Nor will i concede what has happened.