Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker Reactions: SPOILERS

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Action and fantasy movies don’t need pretty faces. Never did. I‘m not one to name names, but there’s plenty of examples.

Other genres apart from comedy I’d entertain the argument for sure.

I just think the poster was alluding to some primal...biology. And biology always wins.

Not saying it “should” be that way...but ultimately it will be.

I think Disney didn’t bother to realize why people loved the original trilogy. The characters had a dialogue/portrayal quality to them that identified much beyond their white faces...particularly with Fisher.

While everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions — there is no doubt Driver is a fan favorite. His performance as Kylo Ren is well received (whether you like the character or not is a different story) and more often than not regarded as the standout in all three films.

He’s been divisive since 2015. I actually have no problem with him or the character...but it definitely has driven some away.

 

[Mouse Trap]

I just think the poster was alluding to some primal...biology. And biology always wins.

Not saying it “should” be that way...but ultimately it will be.

I think Disney didn’t bother to realize why people loved the original trilogy. The characters had a dialogue/portrayal quality to them that identified much beyond their white faces...particularly with Fisher.
He’s been divisive since 2015. I actually have no problem with him or the character...but it definitely has driven some away.

Honestly this is the first place I have ever heard any sort of pressing complaints about the physical appearances of the Star Wars cast turning people off from the characters. I’ve certainly heard Driver isn’t intimidating enough to be the villain, but those folks missed the point of his character. While the OT was obviously a product of its time, it had virtually no diversity.

I frequent many Star Wars forums (more so that appeal to younger audiences), events and I’m very involved in the film community, so this is just... interesting to say the least. I’d be interested to learn what the demo makeup is on this forum.

 

[mickEblu]

I absolutely loved The Rise of Skywalker!

I would describe myself as a causal + Star Wars fan. I don’t have a lot of nostalgia for the original trilogy. With the exception of ROTJ, they were all released before I was born. I grew up during the Star Wars dark ages between the original and prequel trilogies. I didn’t see A New Hope (Star Wars back then) until I was 12. Something peaked my interest (probably Star Tours) and I bought it on VHS. I enjoyed it enough to make it part of my rotation of movies for a few months. Rented Episode 5 and 6. As a kid who enjoyed fantasy films, ROTJ was my favorite back then because of the Ewoks and all the creatures at Jabbas. Now it’s definitely my least favorite of the OT by far. Anyway, I enjoyed Star Wars enough to buy Shadows of the Empire, Rogue Squadron and the Pod racing game on Nintendo 64. Enjoyed it enough to go see all the prequels in theaters once and randomly watch bits and pieces of all the movies when they were on TV. Oh ya, almost forgot about the Ewok movies on the Disney channel. That was basically it until the Sequel Trilogy came out. No toys, no comic books, no rebels or whatever those cartoon shows are called.

God Father came out before I was born too Which is one of my favorite movies but I Wouldn’t say I have any nostalgia for it. All this to say that I believe I’m as unbiased as a Star Wars fan could possibly be while still having pretty good knowledge of what it’s all about. I’ll admit I’m probably not as “snobby” or critical of a film fan as I am when it comes to the parks. I view Star Wars movies as what they were meant to be. Fun Sci Fi blockbuster adventure films. I just want to be entertained and feel something. The Sequel trilogy does these things better than the OT. Now what the they did with the OT in the late 70s early 80s is super impressive and of course, Lucas/ the OT gets all the credit for creating these fascinating worlds, characters, the John Williams Music etc but Disney took all of that and ran with it with Sequel Trilogy.

The ST is obviously more visually impressive with beautiful cinematography but I think they are also better executed as well. The story characters have more depth and don’t feel so 2D. Also, let’s be honest, Luke was a terrible actor during most of the OT. Outside of Luke blowing up the Death Star and Han coming to help in the OT I can’t think of many or any other moments where I felt anything in the OT. In TROS alone there were 4-5 moments where I almost / did tear up. Small SPOILER COMING......................................

......The Kylo-Han exchange standing out.

Overall the ST Is much more exciting from start to finish. Even if A New Hope is still the best standalone Star Wars movie... maybe. I’m not even convinced that’s true anymore. As a casual + Star Wars fan I’m not concerned about Reys supernatural force abilities not being consistent with the Force in older movies or things if that nature. As IMO, an unbiased Star Wars fan that just watched all 9 Skywalker Saga movies + Rogue One in the last few weeks I can confidently say I enjoy the ST much more. Now, does that mean they re more important culturally than the OT, of course not. But when it comes purely entertainment purposes, which is what movies are primarily made for. The ST wins.

Lastly, I think if one is able to put aside the behind the scenes rumors or speculated course correction of Abrams after TLJ, they ll be able to enjoy the trilogy more. Meaning to say, the guessing game of wondering if things like “was Rey always meant to be Palpatines daughter or did JJ try to fix that after TLJ” but instead just taking everything for face value. I don’t understand the reviews saying that the trilogy didn’t have any direction or purpose. I mean you can call TROS a bit of fan service but who didn’t see that coming? And how is it anymore fan service than ANH or ROTJ? Also who doesn’t expect fan service with these kind of movies in general? Side note: ROTJ was one of my least favorite movies of the Marathon I just did. Maybe I was having Star Wars fatigue that day but man that one was a bore to get thru. A 45 minute long “scene” at Jabbas. The Overdoing it with the Ewoks. It was very much a product of its time and felt more like a fantasy film from the 80s and less Star Wars. Anyway, if Abrams was just fixing up “mistakes” that RIan Johnson made, I couldn’t tell. I think he wrapped up everything beautifully. To the point where I never asked questions like “was Palpatine always going to be a part of this trilogy?” Everything made sense and All the character arcs wrapped up in a way that felt natural and like it was always intended to be that way. I went in with not very many expectations and somehow got everything I probably wanted out of this film. Of course, it also has the advantage of being the movie that gets to wrap up the entire saga and with that comes closure and drama which is entertaining and satisfying.

The only 2 negatives I can think of off the top of my head. I wish their was a little bit more breathing room between some of the action scenes. Also ...... SPOILER......


I wish they would have executed the Rey/ Palpatine scene at the end a little better. I never really felt there was a chance of her being seduced to the dark side. I wish they had made me think, even for 5 seconds, that they she may turn. Not sure if Abrams even tried to do that or not. If he did, it didn’t work for me.

Really lastly this time. Kylo Ren > Vader. So much more to him and more depth and character development. Such a great character arc. This is coming From someone who laughed out loud at the move theatre when he first took his mask off in Force Awakens and also left the theatre feeling like he was a weak villain.


So how about how this effects ROTR? Interesting choice. Why not.... SPOILER......

Palpatine as the bad guy or an original villain created for the ride? Maybe that means they really didn’t know what direction Kylo was going when they started building the attraction? For a place (Batuu) that’s supposed to be So real, it seems off that we have to put aside our Ep 9 knowledge when riding. Maybe that changes when EP 9 fades out of relevancy.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

The main difference is that as far as we’ve so far seen, it’s plausible that the Yoda species is naturally force sensitive.

Granted, we’re working off a sample size of 3, but that’s what everybody is assuming I think.

Good point. Something you said reminded me. It actually could be “the yoda species”.

If memory serves, in the original treatment Yoda was the last name. Minch was his first name. Lucas shortened to plain old Yoda for V. So in theory. It actually could be baby Yoda. And could graduate to plain old Yoda somewhere in the future.

 

[Joesixtoe]

I'm happy to let you know that he does! That's his arc in The Last Jedi! He gets over his guilt and fear to become the hero we know him to be!

Yes he eventually saved them via video chat.. after being on the island for what? A few years? I dunno I don't see Luke doing that. But Rian said he did.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

One thing I can't seem to get my head around (that's not a knock on Rian Johnson btw).

IX had a big problem. No Han, No Luke, and No Carrie Fisher. I know that this was supposed to be Fisher's movie. But due to the limitations created by Fisher's passing, I'm sure that there were many, many discussions on what to do.

My point being, now that we have this "Force Healing", and Johnson expands on Leia's force powers as she flies through space - Why didn't they have Leia force heal Luke, with a reference to "saving Ben" before she passes-on in the early stages of the movie.

That would have been the true rise of Skywalker, made Palpatine's resurrection a little more palpatable, and set this up as a redemption movie for Luke. Where he would have sacrificed in the end to turn Kylo to the light - thus his legacy includes saving his father and his nephew. Leia's legacy is now entrenched by sacrificing herself to save her brother and ultimately her son.

Rey could still have killed Palpatine. Kylo would have lived. They have their moment together and now you can build off a Palpatine/Skywalker SW future (with some of the offspring turning dark and others light).

Edited: You can tell I've graduated to the "Bargaining Phase".

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Honestly this is the first place I have ever heard any sort of pressing complaints about the physical appearances of the Star Wars cast turning people off from the characters. I’ve certainly heard Driver isn’t intimidating enough to be the villain, but those folks missed the point of his character. While the OT was obviously a product of its time, it had virtually no diversity.

I frequent many Star Wars forums (more so that appeal to younger audiences), events and I’m very involved in the film community, so this is just... interesting to say the least. I’d be interested to learn what the demo makeup is on this forum.

I don’t think people are “turned off” by the physical characteristics of the new cast...

I just think maybe Disney was so adamant to NOT have the same mainstream ethnic/gender traits that they may have done so at the expense of the casting...

It’s not a “conspiracy”...the force awakens cast did “ironically” check off about 50 “checkboxes”...and the last Johnson as well.

We can’t pretend that to be a coincidence. That would be a tad naive.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Opinion | After mediocre "The Rise of Skywalker," where does the Star Wars franchise go now?

If history is any guide, many entries in the Star Wars franchise will be uninspired, poorly thought through and even terrible. But fans will watch them anyway.

www.google.com

This is so depressingly true...

And it’s also true that it’s more “strained” than the prequels that left fans “shell shocked” 15 years ago.

Nobody “beats” Disney

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

One thing I can't seem to get my head around (that's not a knock on Rian Johnson btw).

IX had a big problem. No Han, No Luke, and No Carrie Fisher. I know that this was supposed to be Fisher's movie. But due to the limitations created by Fisher's passing, I'm sure that there were many, many discussions on what to do.

My point being, now that we have this "Force Healing", and Johnson expands on Leia's force powers as she flies through space - Why didn't they have Leia force heal Luke, with a reference to "saving Ben" before she passes-on in the early stages of the movie.

That would have been the true rise of Skywalker, made Palpatine's resurrection a little more palpatable, and set this up as a redemption movie for Luke. Where he would have sacrificed in the end to turn Kylo to the light - thus his legacy includes saving his father and his nephew. Leia's legacy is now entrenched by sacrificing herself to save her brother and ultimately her son.

Rey could still have killed Palpatine. Kylo would have lived. They have their moment together and now you can build off a Palpatine/Skywalker SW future (with some of the offspring turning dark and others light).

Edited: You can tell I've graduated to the "Bargaining Phase".

What is “Because the entire thing has been so haphazardly mishandled”, Alex?

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I don’t think people are “turned off” by the physical characteristics of the new cast...

I just think maybe Disney was so adamant to NOT have the same mainstream ethnic/gender traits that they may have done so at the expense of the casting...

It’s not a “conspiracy”...the force awakens cast did “ironically” check off about 50 “checkboxes”...and the last Johnson as well.

We can’t pretend that to be a coincidence. That would be a tad naive.

In addition to the casting elements. I think the definition of the characters is what set people off (at least it did me). I love a strong woman character. Loved Leia in the OT, liked Padme in the prequels. But when every character in the movie is a "strong woman" to the detriment of the males in the cast - it's a bit overkill.

Rey - strong woman - who (up until IX) had no flaws. And continually put Kylo in his place.
Leia - strong woman - but hey, she's Leia.

I'm good with those two. But:

Did we really need Rose Tico as our moral compass? Did she need to be so much a "strong woman" that she lessened Finn's character and preached to us about the evils of capitalism and animal rights......all before saving Finn from himself?

Did we need Vice Admiral Holdo to be such a "strong woman" so as to preach to Poe (and men in general) about being hot-headed and lacking proper decision making abilities.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

While the OT was obviously a product of its time, it had virtually no diversity.

Have you seen the Mos Eisley scene?

Seriously though -

Leia - woman
Lando - African American
Vader's Voice - African American
Numerous people of short stature

But you have to keep in mind that this takes place in the late seventies/early-eighties. The Godfather, JAWS, Caddyshack, and numerous other blockbusters of that era weren't exactly diverse. SW may actually have been among the most diverse for it's time.

 

[Mouse Trap]

Have you seen the Mos Eisley scene?

Seriously though -

Leia - woman
Lando - African American
Vader's Voice - African American
Numerous people of short stature

But you have to keep in mind that this takes place in the late seventies/early-eighties. The Godfather, JAWS, Caddyshack, and numerous other blockbusters of that era weren't exactly diverse. SW may actually have been among the most diverse for it's time.

Do you seriously think one black supporting character, the voice of a black man and a bunch of racially mixed background characters who appear for 3 seconds makes the film diverse?

Again, I’m totally aware Star Wars is a product of its time, but you can’t logically think the OT is even close to being diverse across gender and background.

 

[Mouse Trap]

Adam Driver is completely miscast. You need a very strong, charismatic villain to drive a movie or trilogy.
He's a mediocre looking guy and a mediocre talent. Not an A-list, box office draw.
The movie doesn't hold it's own when nobody really cares about the villain one way or the other.
I think in time this will become more evident. When Phantom Menace came out everyone was praising Jake Lloyd because it would have been impolite to criticize the kid. But that was a huge miscast in a lead role for a series and time has proven that right. Similarly with Driver, in time we will see that he was a huge misstep.

John Boyega is a good supporting actor but shouldn't have been cast as the lead actor.
Yeah, he was good in Attack the Block but that was a small indy horror film.
They should have gone with a hearthrob like Daniel Kaluuya as the romantic lead love interest.
Instead they didn't know what to do with Boyega so he was the lead male actor in the first move, then was relegated to a side story with Rose Tico as a love interest in the 2nd and then they abandoned that idea and had a really awkward group hug with Rey and Poe in the 3rd.

We will see how their careers turnout but I don't expect either one of them to go on to be a big box office draw and leading man like Harrison Ford. Mark Hamill had potential to do that too but his face was demolished by the car accident between New Hope and ESB and so he lost his matinee idol Brad Pitt type looks which relegated him to voice work. If you look at the New Hope series, the romantic interaction/love triangle and relationship between Luke, Leia, Han was a big part of what drove that trilogy. That is lacking in this new series.

Adam Driver is very much an A-list talent and a very in demand actor. John Boyega has become quite popular as well. Your opinion that they aren’t pretty or charismatic enough for your Star Wars is totally fine, but stating that Driver isn’t an A-list talent is something you’re making up to justify your opinion.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

I could not care less whether Star Wars is “diverse” enough or not. That is the least of my concerns with Star Wars.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Star Wars is a series where all the bad guys are old, white men.

You don't get more "woke" than that!

 

[TROR]

Yes he eventually saved them via video chat.. after being on the island for what? A few years? I dunno I don't see Luke doing that. But Rian said he did.

JJ put him on the island.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

JJ put him on the island.

And Rian turned him into a coward. Then Finn into a joke and Poe into someone with anger issues. He did this all - so we could have moments by Rose Tico and Vice Admiral Holdo. Genius!

It was so genius...that he no longer has a trilogy. So there is a silver lining.

 

[TROR]

And Rian turned him into a coward. Then Finn into a joke and Poe into someone with anger issues. He did this all - so we could have moments by Rose Tico and Vice Admiral Holdo. Genius!

It was so genius...that he no longer has a trilogy. So there is a silver lining.

ok boomer

 

[flynnibus]

Random thoughts after just getting back:

Going to have to take time to properly "rank" it but oh my god they pulled SO much ridiculous BS out of thin air.

The Emperor stuff was totally unexplained and stupid, felt unnecessary. Why is the Emperor suddenly alive and what's more can summon thousands upon thousands of "ghost" Star Destroyers? And then why did the Resistance suddenly get a bazillion reinforcements out of nowhere to beat all of them?

There were just so many instances of them wishing plot resolutions into existence. It feels like they had no idea how to end things so they just gave up.

They really **** the bed with this trilogy. They had no idea where it was going or where it should go.

Three things that genuinely surprised me:
- Hux being a double agent
- Han showing up again
- The Anakin/Vader ghost rumor not being real (I had heard that for years so assumed it was true)

One of the biggest fundamental problems with this trilogy was they never spent the time effort to effectively world build. After three movies the actual balance of power in the galaxy is still extremely unclear. Why is the First Order so powerful? Aren't they supposed to be the rebels? Why does the New Republic not have an official army? Why are the good guys still rebels even though they're technically in power? Doesn't make any sense beyond just that they couldn't imagine Star Wars without "good guys = rebels, bad guys = empire"

The new republic didnt want an army... same as the old republic.
The first order is not in power everywhere... just in some regions... hence why they are looking to rise up and overthrow more of the new republic.
“Resistence” is the armed rebelion against the first order. Aligned with the new republic.
The new republic is large... it just is more to the core of the galaxy and not militarized

Palapatine has been rebuilding his forces for along time in secret far off the radar.

 

[Disney Analyst]

He's not A-list.
Just because you like him doesn't make him an A-list Box Office draw.
What other blockbuster movies has he brought in huge numbers simply on his name?

He’s literally favourited to be nominated for an Oscar this season....