Star Wars Ep. 9 Thread

[Gomer]

I mean, they have 5 movies. You have 1 director gone during the writing process, and 2 after initial cuts if I remember correctly (assuming you count Rogue One in that kind of boat). Admittedly I didn't really get into the Marvel movies until a year and a half ago, but did Marvel really replace 60% of their directors? Honestly I don't know movie things all that well, so I'll ask this here as well. Shouldn't she have known the directions they wanted to take things before hiring them? Or at least before completing filming?

I mean, I'm sure I'm lumped into hating Star Wars movies. But just listen to the people involved talk. Direct from JJ: "But without getting in the weeds on episode eight, that was a story that Rian wrote and was telling based on seven before we met. So he was taking the thing in another direction. So we also had to respond to Episode VIII." “While there are some threads of larger ideas and some big picture things that had been conceived decades ago and a lot of ideas that Lawrence Kasdan and I had when we were doing Episode VII, the lack of absolute inevitability, the lack of a complete structure for this thing, given the way it was being run was an enormous challenge.”

Not quite to that extent, no. But we are dealing with a small sample size with SW so its hard to compare.

But Marvel did have a bad run similar to this one. Thor 2, GotG 1 (writer change), Ant-Man, the dispatched Inhumans movie, and Favreau's departure were all in short succession. And around that there are the numerous typical reshoots, rewrites, etc... that happen for most movies.

 

[Mike S]

Pretty standard really. My employer recently had a down quarter and everyone was put on media blackout outside of our CEO until they could manage the spin. After it blows over, everyone is given free reign again.

Didn’t stop other LucasFilm people from chiming in but maybe they didn’t get the memo. Or just a simple lack of class.

Here's a picture of Iger about to fire Kennedy...



Disney does their own customer research. If Kennedy really ruined SW with the majority of the public, she'd be gone. Therefor, the premise that SW has been ruined by Kennedy is false.

How many years does the "Kennedy's going to be fired" rumor need to be unfulfilled before people will let go of it? One year? Two years? Five years?

When she retires at 70 will people say, "Aha! We were right!!"?

Anyway, here's some incriminating dirt on Kennedy to satisfy some people's bloodlust.

A lot of previous good movies. Makes me wonder what happened with TLJ. Previous success also doesn’t mean much. Even Spielberg and Lucas have had hiccups.

It is a lot of churn, I will admit. It's just funny, how this happens elsewhere and people credit the studio. HOw many times has Feige changed creatives. Rewrites, swapping out directors in pre-production. But if you like the Marvel movies he's a genius. If you hate the SW movies, its all her fault.

Honestly, these sorts of changes happen all the time in Hollywood. But most movies aren't being tracked through preproduction by scores of fan blogs, so you never hear about it. The obvious exception here is Solo. Firing a director during production was an extreme step. But unless any of us can see the movie Lord and Miller were tying to make, we'll never really be able to know who was right and who was wrong there.

To quote A Bug’s Life,

“First rule of leadership, everything is your fault.”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Kennedy deserves a lot of backlash. It is very apparent there was no real direction for the franchise. Look at how she handled Solo. Look how many directors she went through. I'm not going to get into all the rumors behind them, but each and every one seem to have a common "Creative Differences" mantra to them. You can like or love every one of the movies, but I don't think you can say she has handled the studio well.

To be honest, I couldn't tell you on Potter. I didn't think that movie was anything spectacular either, but I have no idea what others thought. I will say looking at release dates, you did have Captain America bring in $64 million it's opening weekend which could be a contributor.

I also don't disagree about the pattern. That is why I have been hesitant to say TLJ did a substantial amount of damage to the franchise. That's why I put a lot of stock in what this next film does. I will say that the fact Disney altered what they were doing with Star Wars as a franchise would throw a big red flag up for me. If they truly thought they were on a normal trend and everything was great, I don't think you would see them cancel all their backstory movies and go on a 3 year break.




Not how most any view it. How many people do you think have taken film criticism classes? There is a reason they put trailers out there.

Thank you...

I’ll take the heat (I deserve it) and get constantly snitted at...but we are in total agreement.

They have problems...doesn’t mean it’s done...but doesn’t meant you can ignore them forever either

 

[MisterPenguin]

A lot of previous good movies. Makes me wonder what happened with TLJ.

<shrug>

Lasseter didn't get fired for Cars 2.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not quite to that extent, no. But we are dealing with a small sample size with SW so its hard to compare.

But Marvel did have a bad run similar to this one. Thor 2, GotG 1 (writer change), Ant-Man, the dispatched Inhumans movie, and Favreau's departure were all in short succession. And around that there are the numerous typical reshoots, rewrites, etc... that happen for most movies.

Well I will go with a rumor here....against my grain

Treverow said 8 was crap and he couldn’t do his job...Kennedy was appalled he insulted her man boy and she fired him. Which seems to be her last bit of leeway to make major decisions combined with giving that buffoon more movies.

It may be completely false - like Epcot country pavilions - but damn it sure does fit all the clues as Sherlock would say.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

<shrug>

Lasseter didn't get fired for Cars 2.

He’s getting a story writing credit for toy story 4...

Which I bought preview tickets for...like endgame

Guess what I’m not buying them for?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Here's a picture of Iger about to fire Kennedy...



Disney does their own customer research. If Kennedy really ruined SW with the majority of the public, she'd be gone. Therefor, the premise that SW has been ruined by Kennedy is false.

How many years does the "Kennedy's going to be fired" rumor need to be unfulfilled before people will let go of it? One year? Two years? Five years?

When she retires at 70 will people say, "Aha! We were right!!"?

Anyway, here's some incriminating dirt on Kennedy to satisfy some people's bloodlust.

Lol!!! Who’s the most important person in those pictures?

Hint: Kennedy used to be his secretary.

Seriously...you can’t pull sarcasm when you miss the obvious that negates it.

 

[Mike S]

<shrug>

Lasseter didn't get fired for Cars 2.

Good point. He got fired for, other reasons

Cars 2 was still very profitable though and sold a ton of merch. It also didn’t cause an undeniable rift in a decades old fanbase that is so large that it cannot be blamed solely on small groups of trolls.

Star Wars merch doesn’t sell like it used to anymore and we’ve had our first ever bomb in the franchise. Two things previously thought to be impossible.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Treverow said 8 was crap and he couldn’t do his job...

Well, if anyone would know crap it's the man behind two Jurassic World movies.

Hiring him to begin with is the first thing I'd criticize Kennedy for.

 

[Mike S]

Well, if anyone would know crap it's the man behind two Jurassic World movies.

Hiring him to begin with is the first thing I'd criticize Kennedy for.

The first one was good imo. It’s actually my favorite of all the JP sequels followed by 3 then 2. Yes I don’t like how the T Rex dies in 3 but there’s still something about the movie that makes me like it more than 2. Colin didn’t do the second JW though.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Good point. He got fired for, other reasons

Cars 2 was still profitable though and sold a ton of merch. It also didn’t cause an undeniable rift in a decades old fanbase that is so large that it cannot be blamed solely on small groups of trolls.

Cars 2 with a $200m budget barely broke even in the theatrical window. And it seems it helped tank the profitability of Cars 3, though. Part of the Cars fan based was disillusioned since Cars3's BO was only $385m compared to Cars2's $562. Cars2 got only meh ratings compared to Cars2's dismal ratings, but made a lot less.

 

[Gomer]

Well I will go with a rumor here....against my grain

Treverow said 8 was crap and he couldn’t do his job...Kennedy was appalled he insulted her man boy and she fired him. Which seems to be her last bit of leeway to make major decisions combined with giving that buffoon more movies.

It may be completely false - like Epcot country pavilions - but damn it sure does fit all the clues as Sherlock would say.

You are nothing if not consistent. The stories you make in your head are very amusing.

 

[Mike S]

Cars 2 with a $200m budget barely broke even in the theatrical window. And it seems it helped tank the profitability of Cars 3, though. Part of the Cars fan based was disillusioned since Cars3's BO was only $385m compared to Cars2's $562. Cars2 got only meh ratings compared to Cars2's dismal ratings, but made a lot less.

View attachment 378154

Wow I thought it did better. I admit I never really looked into it. I know it did kill it in merchandise though which is why we even have 3. I thought that one was going to be much better than it actually was

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The first one was good imo. It’s actually my favorite of all the JP sequels followed by 3 but then 2. Yes I don’t like how the T Rex dies in 3 but there’s still something about the movie that makes me like it more than 2. Colin didn’t do the second JW though.

To clarify, his writing on both movies is the problem imo. The first one was executed fine directing wise from what I could see. He'd possibly do a decent job directing a Star Wars movie with a good script (from someone else).

 

[Mike S]

To clarify, his writing on both movies is the problem imo. The first one was executed fine directing wise from what I could see. He'd possibly do a decent job directing a Star Wars movie with a good script (from someone else).

Yeah I remember Mark Hamill talking about how he was talking with Colin and I think was excited about the direction he wanted to take.

Now we’ll never know what that was but I’m sure it meant cool things for Luke if Hamill was excited.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, if anyone would know crap it's the man behind two Jurassic World movies.

Hiring him to begin with is the first thing I'd criticize Kennedy for.

Granted...he was a dumb hire and he’s not exactly Alfred Hitchcock...

But what does that say if that rumor is true?!?

 

[LSLS]

You are nothing if not consistent. The stories you make in your head are very amusing.

To be fair, while sensationalized by him, he didn't make this story up. The rumor is that Trevorrow wanted Luke for Episode 9 and wanted Snoke to have more development in 8 leading into 9. LucasFilms wanted only new characters in 9, and they got sick of his complaining. Now, I don't want to throw out just the one random rumor. The other ones I have seen around were that his script was not good, and that he had too big an ego. I don't know which is true, or if any of them are.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You are nothing if not consistent. The stories you make in your head are very amusing.

Reread your review of 8...with the “trained critic” vibe....

Or dig up pengys stance that 8 was “just like empire” from around 1/1/2018 (yes...it’s out there)

And then tell me who’s living on the Teacups??

 

[Gomer]

To be fair, while sensationalized by him, he didn't make this story up. The rumor is that Trevorrow wanted Luke for Episode 9 and wanted Snoke to have more development in 8 leading into 9. LucasFilms wanted only new characters in 9, and they got sick of his complaining. Now, I don't want to throw out just the one random rumor. The other ones I have seen around were that his script was not good, and that he had too big an ego. I don't know which is true, or if any of them are.

Do you have any idea where that rumor originated? Was it a trade? Reddit? Angry youtuber?

I think the more prevelant rumor as I've seen it is that no one at LF or Disney was happy with his treatment. They either couldn't get him to make changes, or his changes were seen as lacking. And then The Book of Henry hit to an abyssmal response and put the final nail in his coffin. They tried to make it work because he was recommended by Frank Marshall, but eventually decided to move on.

Now you can read the first rumor and pack it inside that rumor and it would fit as well. So I'm not necessarily disputing it. But the rumor as I stated above was the one that was going around the most at the time of his departure.

Regardless, even if it was true that he was trying to force them to change direction on the movie that was about to go into production, then he deserved to be fired either way. Whether you think he was right or wrong. That's not very professional and would probably have made him tough to employ going forward.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah I remember Mark Hamill talking about how he was talking with Colin and I think was excited about the direction he wanted to take.

Now we’ll never know what that was but I’m sure it meant cool things for Luke if Hamill was excited.

...well that must have been a lie...because hamill hasn’t complained AT ALL about that fine piece of sci fi channel quality nonsense and it’s hairbun jokes they made