Star Wars Ep. 9 Thread

[Disney Irish]

I’d cover that...

You don’t seem to realize where Star Wars is...

Despite the current fan issues with this trilogy, I believe there will be enough of a response to it ending that it'll bring out even the most critical of fan. It'll be a bookend to what FA started. There will be enough repeat viewings that it'll break 2B if not more. Like I said I'm betting on 2.5B-3B.

 

[Darkprime]

People are way over hyping Episode IX's box office. Last Jedi opened to $450M WW. I would not be surprised if it opened to half of that.

 

[Darkprime]

 

[Mike S]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

That’s all I have for now.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Leave it to JJ Abrams to give people what they think they want. I can’t say I’m looking forward to this seamingly second “reintroduction” version of SW. The big thing I loved about TLJ was its idea of blowing the universe up and going in completely different directions, but now we’re back to making this big universe small again.

Kathleen Kennedy has done such a poor job of managing this property.

Cool trailer though. Lots of money shots.

 

[Mike S]

Most of the more popular fan theories about her identity WERE objectively better, or at least had elements to them that were more consistent and logical (not to mention more interesting and entertaining) than the official version. So yes many of the "made up ideas" WERE preferable.

This would end up being a rather long post to explain, so i'll put it in a spoiler to shorten it a bit. I've posted this before in my criticism of the sequel trilogy and Rey's character. To put it in short terms with all the reasons and details cut out (they're in the spoiler below), Rey's capabilities make absolutely no sense and completely violate a lot of the established rules and logic of the Star Wars franchise.

Spoiler

Firstly, while the execution was handled horribly in the movies, Rey's parents being "nobodies" COULD have worked out if done properly. Giving her parents significance however would have been one way to better explain why she's so powerful. "Rey Skywalker" was just one of the more common and popular theories surrounding Ep 7. But i've heard a lot of other really fun ones too such as her being a Kenobi or even a Palpatine (I liked the idea of this one personally, opens up a lot of potentially interesting facets to her character).

But her parents being "important" wasn't a hard requirement. It was previously established that the Force can manifest exceptionally powerful people from unexceptional parents if the balance of the universe was off. Anakin being the template for this. But unlike Anakin, the details around why Rey exists and is so powerful hasn't been adequately (or really at all) explained. The writers made this worse by flagrantly trying to tease her parentage to fans, but then just pulling the rug out from under them in a really incompetent attempt to pull a "twist". Her parents are nobodies, and she's apparently just some random absurdly powerful force user with no explanation. Subverting expectations should be meaningful, interesting and have an impact (like the twist with Vader in Empire Strikes Back). Not disappointing, pointless and hollow. It IS plausible that the writers are going to pull another twist and retcon her parents into being important (with Kylo Ren being a liar).

But by far the biggest and most glaring problem with Rey is her power growth. And I can't see any retcons being able to fix this. The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi apparently occur over the span of only about a week or so. Last Jedi is only about 2-3 days long. In the span of this absurdly brief period of time, Rey starts out stuck on Jakku and knowing literally nothing about the force. She has exceptionally potent reflexes and intuition, as is the norm with force sensitives. But she never consciously knew this or had control over it. Within the next few days however, she's able to block out and actually rebound Kylo Ren's mental probe back onto him to invade HIS mind instead. She mind tricks a stormtrooper moments later. And a few minutes after this manages to overpower Kylo Ren's telekinetic pull and take the lightsaber from him. After spending two days on an island with Luke Skywalker (wherein he refused to teach her), she is able to break a lightsaber in half using the force (again matching Kylo Ren's power here) and levitate hundreds of massive heavy boulders as if they were helium filled balloons...

These feats of power are absolutely absurd and a sign of horrible writing from people who either have no understanding of the rules and logic of the series (heck of logical plot progression in general), or just don't care. Powers like what Rey demonstrated requires years or decades of intense training. This is regardless of how insanely strong you are in the force such as with Anakin and Luke. In the prequel trilogy, there are lengthy timeskips that explain why characters are growing more powerful. Anakin doesn't start out being capable of mind tricks and telekinesis in Ep1. He only gains these powers in Ep 2, which occurs 10 years after the first and where he received exceptional training and experience under older and powerful jedi masters. There was another 3 year gap between EP2 and EP3.

Luke also started out only having exceptional reflexes and intuition, not able to float objects or mind trick people. EP5 was 3 years later. No master to properly train him, he still couldn't levitate objects by then. He was only able to finally do it with EXTREME difficulty when he summoned his lightsaber laying on the ground about a foot or two away. Barely pulling THAT off. He progressed more quickly on Dagobah thanks to Yoda, it's believed he was there for at least several weeks or even months. At first Luke still struggled to lift anything more than one football sized stone at a time. Eventually he was able to levitate a couple of supply boxes and R2D2 simultaneously, before abruptly leaving to try to save his friends. It should also be mentioned that these skills were nothing to Darth Vader, who wiped the floor with him. Vader incidentally was at this point a tremendously weakened shell of his former prequel self (losing half of his potential). Luke's innate potential was the same as Anakin's was pre-burning. But Vader had over 20 years of intense experience as a Sith lord (and another 20 years on top from his prior jedi training) to compensate and made a fool of Luke in that battle. It took Luke yet another year of training to compete with Vader (and tapping strongly into the dark side to actually beat him). And then of course the Emperor stepped up and took Luke down a notch. Palpatine himself is nowhere near the Skywalker in raw potential, but was almost 90 years old. He was a Sith lord for most his life, training and experience matter.

The point is that no matter how innately strong Rey might be in the force, there is no logical reason that she should be able to use such advanced and difficult force powers without any training or experience. Untrained force sensitive people don't just wake up one day able to levitate a mountain of boulders. It takes decades of intense training (regardless of how innately powerful) to be able to do what Rey learned to do in the span of days.

Even the way Rey taps into these powers contradicts the original trilogy. When Yoda is trying to teach Luke to levitate objects at the beginning, he is struggling and failing with anything more than a single small stone. Luke tells Yoda he thinks it's impossible, and Yoda tells him his disbelief is a major reason for his failure. After Luke realizes the truth of this comment, he does better (though still gets his butt kicked by Vader). Rey has a more optimistic personality than Luke had, but she still clearly exhibits the same exact thoughts as him when it came to belief in her abilities. Whenever she manages to use the force, she acts completely surprised and taken aback that it actually worked. So she has the same self-doubt that Luke had, yet is somehow succeeding where he didn't. Because the writers either didn't understand the source material or didn't care...

Part of the theory Mike S posted would have helped explain the issues with Rey. Rey having been a prior jedi trainee with exceptional skill, but had her memory locked away (this was actually done in a really awesome video game plot in the now non-canon Star Wars Expanded Universe material). The film makers could have even written in that it was Kylo Ren's mental probe of her in Episode 7 that was what "Awakened" her sleeping memories and also her prior training. Explaining why she gradually began to use advanced force powers afterward, some of the skills were coming back to her, along with fragments of her prior memories. There was already a somewhat similar story to this idea in one of the now non-canon Star Wars Expanded Universe plots (a very popular video game).

To add to that lengthy read, don’t forget Broom Boy.

Leave it to JJ Abrams to give people what they think they want. I can’t say I’m looking forward to this seamingly second “reintroduction” version of SW. The big thing I loved about TLJ was its idea of blowing the universe up and going in completely different directions, but now we’re back to making this big universe small again.

Kathleen Kennedy has done such a poor job of managing this property.

Cool trailer though. Lots of money shots.

If a big universe is what you crave that’s what the prequels did believe it or not. To me this whole trilogy feels small.

 

[Tony Perkis]

To add to that lengthy read, don’t forget Broom Boy.

I’d put hard money that broom boy is nowhere to be found in IX. He’s was in TLJ to dispel the notion that the remaining Jedi are not bound to just the Skywalkers and their inner circle.

 

[Mike S]

I’d put hard money that broom boy is nowhere to be found in IX. He’s was in TLJ to dispel the notion that the remaining Jedi are not bound to just the Skywalkers and their inner circle.

Force Sensitive, not Jedi. Jedi is when you’ve received training. And when was such a notion ever disputed? For Luke to have started a school in the first place his students would of course have to be from outside his “inner circle.”

 

[MisterPenguin]

lame duck Kathy

How are the Kathy-Kennedy-is-going-to-be-fired club meetings going? You all need a lot of support considering the number of years gone by in which she hasn't been fired.

 

[Tony Perkis]

If a big universe is what you crave that’s what the prequels did believe it or not. To me this whole trilogy feels small.

The prequels have a lot of issues, and I mostly despise them, but the world building and the size of the universe was not one of their issues.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I’d put hard money that broom boy is nowhere to be found in IX. He’s was in TLJ to dispel the notion that the remaining Jedi are not bound to just the Skywalkers and their inner circle.

You would think the thousands of Jedi in the prequels would have dispelled that notion...

 

[doctornick]

So we thinking Snoke will be revealed as some sort of puppet of Palpatine? Or just a rogue sith who broke the rule of two?

If Palpatine was a Force Ghost aiding Snoke, then it wouldn't necessarily violate the "rule of two". That said, it's not like it hasn't been broken before anyway - Dooku had Asajj Ventress and Vader had the Inquisitors.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Force Sensitive, not Jedi. Jedi is when you’ve received training. And when was such a notion ever disputed? For Luke to have started a school in the first place his students would of course have to be from outside his “inner circle.”

Terminology aside, my point still stands.

 

[Mike S]

You would think the thousands of Jedi in the prequels would have dispelled that notion...

Exactly. I don’t get why people made such a big deal out of that from TLJ. The reason the movies taking place after RotS focused on such a small group was because the Jedi were victims of a mass freaking genocide.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Exactly. I don’t get why people made such a big deal out of that from TLJ. The reason the movies focused on such a small group was because the Jedi were victims of a mass freaking genocide.

Many people are just tired of 9 films about the Skywalker family screwing up the universe.

 

[Mike S]

Many people are just tired of 9 films about the Skywalker family screwing up the universe.

The main episodes have always been about the Skywalkers. You should know that going in.

It’s like saying you’re tired of seeing Harry Potter in a story called Harry Potter.

 

[Tick Tock]

So a lot of interesting questions this teaser trailer brings up.

-Why did Kylo not fire a single shot at Rey as he was pursuing her in his ship? Was he simply aiding in her training, as someone suggested earlier? Was he intending to only capture, and bring her to someone else unharmed? Were his blasters disabled? Was it even Kylo in is ship?

-What does the title mean? (Which I like a lot, btw). Is it a reference to just Luke, or Leia, or Kylo, or another individual Skywalker who's ancestry is uncertain as of now? Is it referencing the rise of the Skywalker legacy throughout the entire movie franchise? Or, perhaps, an earlier Skywalker we haven't seen yet. The earliest of Skywalkers introduced to us through the movies is Anakin's mother. But where did the name originate? Anakin's father is supposedly "nobody", as he came about through the Force. But is there more to this story than we know? Does it somehow connect to Palpatine, or another character?

-Was that a Knight Of Ren who Kylo was attacking with his lightsaber in the teaser?

Lot's of things to ponder over.

 

[Anders Limpar]

It is a fine teaser. All the callbacks just reek of desperation to me. Episode IX should’ve been the point where we’re fully invested in the new characters and the old ones have fully passed the baton so to speak.

7 should’ve been the big reunion. One last adventure with Han, Luke, and Leia. At the end when Han dies the other two fully realize they can’t do this forever and must train the next generation who are still introduced in this movie.

Episode 8 sees Luke training Rey (actual training) and Leia continuing to lead the resistance. If Leia’s fakeout death was still a thing in this version the movie is edited so that she actually dies because Carrie Fisher is dead. I don’t like how they’re keeping her in this movie. Rubs me the wrong way. It would’ve given the resistance something big to fight for as well.

In Episode IX Rey’s training is complete and Luke goes the same way Yoda did. Or he lives and stays on the sidelines either one works. Rey faces down Snoke and Kylo, happily ever after, yada, yada, yada.

It's criminal we didn't get a reunion of the big three. 32 years (if I got my maths correct) in between ROTJ and TFA and you don't have a reunion between the big 3...I'm still shaking my head and rolling my eyes and cursing out JJ and Kennedy for that misstep.

I mean obviously Mike what you came up with shares a lot with the original trilogy but in about 30 secs you came up with a better storyline than directors, producers, and studio heads all worth millions of dollars.

We've been through two movies and I don't care at all about Rey, Finn or any of the new characters. Maybe if we find out something about Rey's family heritage beyond the fact that she is a nobody then I will care more about her. By contrast, I cared a ton about Jyn, Cassian, Chirrut , K2SO and Bodhi.

You (in general, not anyone specific) might ask why I care about 9 then. Well, because it's Star Wars. Perhaps, all the time spent watching the original trilogy on Disney, HBO, USA, VHS, DVD, and then Spike and now TBS/TNT. Maybe it was all the time spent reading the extended universe books. Maybe it was all the time playing the video games on NES, SNES, and N64. Maybe it was bailing out of my sled a million times sled riding down my parents front yard hill and pretending I was Luke bailing out of his snowspeeder before the ATAT crushed it. Maybe it was all the time playing with the Kenner action figures or all the time playing with those miniature playsets that were the equivalent of Micromachines. Not to go all Grinch on you, but that's what I'm going to do, maybe Star Wars means a little bit more. I could live with passing the torch and "letting the past die", if there was a quality setup to phasing out the big three. But there wasn't. As well as, giving us new characters that were actually worth caring about. Maybe if they swapped Jyn and Rey I would care about the new characters a lot more.

P.S. I collected the Mountain Dew cans that were released with the OT.

 

[Anders Limpar]

Sadly that is clearly not the focus of those who intended to condemn going in.

It is a compelling teaser. And my post wasn't directed at those who critique it without an axe to grind. Everyone knows this.

You are taking the pez by immediately changing your avatar to that image.

 

[Mike S]

It's criminal we didn't get a reunion of the big three. 32 years (if I got my maths correct) in between ROTJ and TFA and you don't have a reunion between the big 3...I'm still shaking my head and rolling my eyes and cursing out JJ and Kennedy for that misstep.

I mean obviously Mike what you came up with shares a lot with the original trilogy but in about 30 secs you came up with a better storyline than directors, producers, and studio heads all worth millions of dollars.

We've been through two movies and I don't care at all about Rey, Finn or any of the new characters. Maybe if we find out something about Rey's family heritage beyond the fact that she is a nobody then I will care more about her. By contrast, I cared a ton about Jyn, Cassian, Chirrut , K2SO and Bodhi.

You (in general, not anyone specific) might ask why I care about 9 then. Well, because it's Star Wars. Perhaps, all the time spent watching the original trilogy on Disney, HBO, USA, VHS, DVD, and then Spike and now TBS/TNT. Maybe it was all the time spent reading the extended universe books. Maybe it was all the time playing the video games on NES, SNES, and N64. Maybe it was bailing out of my sled a million times sled riding down my parents front yard hill and pretending I was Luke bailing out of his snowspeeder before the ATAT crushed it. Maybe it was all the time playing with the Kenner action figures or all the time playing with those miniature playsets that were the equivalent of Micromachines. Not to go all Grinch on you, but that's what I'm going to do, maybe Star Wars means a little bit more. I could live with passing the torch and "letting the past die", if there was a quality setup to phasing out the big three. But there wasn't. As well as, giving us characters that were actually were caring about. Maybe if they swapped Jyn and Rey I would care about the new characters a lot more.

P.S. I collected the Mountain Dew cans that were released with the OT.

Totally agree on the Rogue One characters. They were so much better and more interesting.