Staggs says changes to Fantasyland...

[juan]

I'm not asking for the whole truth from juan, I just want to know what his likes and dislikes were concerning the changes that he has heard about.

I like what is new in FLE West. I'm rather indifferent to the changes in FLE East. I have a feeling that many will feel the same. Some of the cuts may not make people too happy, but there should be something else to take their mind off of it...

juan has told us absolutely nothing. It is disturbing that some folks here think he has. Scarey really. Very very scarey.

I I have told you that I can't talk about it. End of story. I have given hints, deal with it.

Dumbo is just me giving my take on how I think the changes will look. Although Tirian or Corrus or someone like that once said it was only moving a very very short distance.

In this case, I feel that I know more about this FLE than Lee, Steve, Tirian, Corrus, or Jim Hill. That's not saying anything against them. I'm just saying I'm dealing with first-hand info (I'm the source) rather than second-hand info (someone else is the source).

Oh, I hope I am wrong. But to give you a more direct answer, I will retire to the Imagineering forum and only post there........usually. :animwink:

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.:wave:

 

[Grizzly Hall 71]

How about everyone's favorite, The Black Cauldron??? hahaha...

My point is, there are many possible franchises.

As for boy-centric requiring a male protagonist, I thought that was Disney's lesson with The Princess and the Frog? Great movie that could have made more money if it wasn't so girl-focused (with "princess" in the title). So, Rapunzel changed to Tangled.

Whether or not it is fair, traditionally, girls don't care if a protagonist is male or female. Boys prefer male leads. That's one reason it is so important that Harry Potter was male and not female. Harriet Potter would not have been nearly as profitable.

You say boys prefer male leads?

Have you seen Alien or Aliens? Or what about Bonnie and Clyde? Jackie Brown was a food film. Quentin Tarantino loved Coffy!!

So your anti-girl lead arguement doesn't make sense to me. Most horror films end with a girl surviving and boys love those.

 

[IWant2GoNow]

I like what is new in FLE West. I'm rather indifferent to the changes in FLE East. I have a feeling that many will feel the same. Some of the cuts may not make people too happy, but there should be something else to take their mind off of it...

Very intriguing. I enjoy the allure and mystery of this thread.

Thanks, juan, for giving us what you can. :wave:

 

[ToTBellHop]

You say boys prefer male leads?

Have you seen Alien or Aliens? Or what about Bonnie and Clyde? Jackie Brown was a food film. Quentin Tarantino loved Coffy!!

So your anti-girl lead arguement doesn't make sense to me. Most horror films end with a girl surviving and boys love those.

Then why did Disney change the title of Rapunzel to Tangled?

Horror movies are very different from animated films. Teenage and older males like to see a bunch of mostly-naked girls getting attacked by a (male) villain, who is the true lead. The lead in the Friday the 13th films is really Jason. I would argue most people went to see the Halloween films for Michael Myers, not for Jamie Lee Curtis' character, and either way, the males who see horror films are very different from the males who see cartoons.

Young males don't particularly like girls (a group of 10 year old boys will pretty much only hang out with other 10 year old boys), so for animated films, yes, male leads make more money. Obviously, once we go through puberty, we start hanging out with girls and are fine with female leads (but we are no longer the target audience of animated films or Fantasyland).

 

[djkidkaz]

Yeah, Alice is not anymore boy oriented than B&tB so I definitely do not see them bringing that franchise in if there looking to make this expansion more appealing to boys.

 

[lebeau]

As for boy-centric requiring a male protagonist, I thought that was Disney's lesson with The Princess and the Frog? Great movie that could have made more money if it wasn't so girl-focused (with "princess" in the title).

Grrr. You just stepped in a personal pet peeve of mine!

There are a lot of reasons PatF disappointed at the box office. A lot of people (including apparently Disney) took the wrong lesson away from PatF's bo performance.

 

[EmperorMilenko]

Then why did Disney change the title of Rapunzel to Tangled?

Horror movies are very different from animated films. Teenage and older males like to see a bunch of mostly-naked girls getting attacked by a (male) villain, who is the true lead. The lead in the Friday the 13th films is really Jason. I would argue most people went to see the Halloween films for Michael Myers, not for Jamie Lee Curtis' character, and either way, the males who see horror films are very different from the males who see cartoons.

Young males don't particularly like girls (a group of 10 year old boys will pretty much only hang out with other 10 year old boys), so for animated films, yes, male leads make more money. Obviously, once we go through puberty, we start hanging out with girls and are fine with female leads (but we are no longer the target audience of animated films or Fantasyland).

But doesn't it work the same way for females? You don't believe that a strong male main protagonist would be toy boy-ified for girls to watch? I'm sure they'd prefer to see a female lead.

 

[Grizzly Hall 71]

Then why did Disney change the title of Rapunzel to Tangled?

Horror movies are very different from animated films. Teenage and older males like to see a bunch of mostly-naked girls getting attacked by a (male) villain, who is the true lead. The lead in the Friday the 13th films is really Jason. I would argue most people went to see the Halloween films for Michael Myers, not for Jamie Lee Curtis' character, and either way, the males who see horror films are very different from the males who see cartoons.

Young males don't particularly like girls (a group of 10 year old boys will pretty much only hang out with other 10 year old boys), so for animated films, yes, male leads make more money. Obviously, once we go through puberty, we start hanging out with girls and are fine with female leads (but we are no longer the target audience of animated films or Fantasyland).

So who are we to say what the kids want if we aren't the target audience?


What do you think is the best boy centric franchise for FLE then?

Let's face it, boys aren't going to like FL as much as girls. If there's no villian mountain coming, no mattehorn, then what?

 

[lebeau]

Yeah, Alice is not anymore boy oriented than B&tB so I definitely do not see them bringing that franchise in if there looking to make this expansion more appealing to boys.

I don't think anyone ever said Disney was chasing the boy demo at FLE. Just that they were trying to broaden the demo beyond the original BBB crowd.

I don't have a good guess as to what changes are being made. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if no male protagonist gets added. I certainly don't think we should be ruling things out because they don't feature a male lead.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Grrr. You just stepped in a personal pet peeve of mine!

There are a lot of reasons PatF disappointed at the box office. A lot of people (including apparently Disney) took the wrong lesson away from PatF's bo performance.

perhaps, true. But, since Disney is the company making decisions on what to add to the FLE, let's assume that it is their view on PatF that matters.

I realize there are MANY confounding variables, but to give a rough approximation of the effect of male vs. female leads:

Worldwide Gross:
Beauty and the Beast: $348 million
Aladdin: $504 million
Lion King: $772 million
Pocahontas: $342 million

Whether or not having a male or female lead is the actual cause, the trends are striking. Who can blame the bean counters? And there have been many analyses suggesting that it is important to Harry Potter's success that he was male. Most little boys are simply not going to read Baby Sitters' Club books...

 

[Brian Noble]

I can't possibly see them basing it on Alice's return to Wonderland though.

Why not? It made very good money, and the look-and-feel of the film would be right at home in fantasyland. It certainly supplies plenty of "tension" for current audiences.

Then why did Disney change the title of Rapunzel to Tangled?

My gut feeling based on no information whatsoever: because the story still isn't very good, and they are worried enough to listen to focus groups. But, that's just my "scary place" talking.

Edited:

I realize there are MANY confounding variables, but to give a rough approximation of the effect of male vs. female leads:

"New" Alice, female protagonist: $1.02B world-wide.

 

[Grizzly Hall 71]

perhaps, true. But, since Disney is the company making decisions on what to add to the FLE, let's assume that it is their view on PatF that matters.

I realize there are MANY confounding variables, but to give a rough approximation of the effect of male vs. female leads:

Worldwide Gross:
Beauty and the Beast: $348 million
Aladdin: $504 million
Lion King: $772 million
Pocahontas: $342 million

Whether or not having a male or female lead is the actual cause, the trends are striking. Who can blame the bean counters? And there have been many analyses suggesting that it is important to Harry Potter's success that he was male. Most little boys are simply not going to read Baby Sitters' Club books...

I've been on a rant on how the FLE is to girly since it was announced. I've been in 100 page fights about it. But think, there's nothing else really that's going to fit the Fantasyland theme for boys unless it's something like Prince Phillip's Escape. It can't show any Sleepying Beauty scenes but just the final battle. But besides that what else? Villians aren't coming neither is the mountain that the people of these boards hate .

What else can be boy centric and be in a Fantasy world at the same time?

 

[castevens]

I don't think anyone ever said Disney was chasing the boy demo at FLE. Just that they were trying to broaden the demo beyond the original BBB crowd.

I don't have a good guess as to what changes are being made. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if no male protagonist gets added. I certainly don't think we should be ruling things out because they don't feature a male lead.

From the article:

Staggs, who has three young sons, is said to have expressed concerns that the initial plans for Fantasyland were too narrowly tailored to girls. The Wizarding World, meanwhile, has delivered impressive early returns for Universal Orlando since formally opening June 18.
The more than $200 million addition to Universal’s Islands of Adventure theme park powered the resort to a 2 percent attendance gain during the second quarter, its first quarterly increase in two years. Attendance at Disney World sank 2 percent during a similar period.
“I think Harry Potter helped” push Disney executives to revisit their approach with Fantasyland, said Lutz, of MiceAge.com. “I think it had an influence to say, ‘Hey, this is something that can be done on this level, and it’s not at a Disney property.’ “
Staggs said Wizarding World has not been a factor in Disney’s Fantasyland plans. “I don’t see evidence that somehow that has changed anyone’s direction or made them think differently,” he said.
But he said Disney is trying to broaden the project’s overall appeal. For instance, plans for three interactive princess meet-and-greets — where children could dance with Cinderella, celebrate Sleeping Beauty’s 16th birthday or play a role in a story with Belle of Beauty and the Beast — are being altered.
“One of the things that I thought the early design did fantastically was delivered on that princess experience. And that does tend to skew towards girls. … We’ve kept that intact — not exactly, necessarily, the way it was presented, but that appeal is there,” Staggs said. “I think we’ve added some things that aren’t just princess-focused, and that’s a good positive.”
Staggs said planners are also reviewing the Fantasyland expansion with an eye toward blending “aspirational rides” — rides that offer thrills or tension — with attractions designed for guests of all ages. And he said they want to ensure that the additions are flexible and can be updated or adapted over time.

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So you're right, nobody *said* it, but I think this is what was fueling the conversation

 

[Grizzly Hall 71]

Why not? It made very good money, and the look-and-feel of the film would be right at home in fantasyland. It certainly supplies plenty of "tension" for current audiences.


My gut feeling based on no information whatsoever: because the story still isn't very good, and they are worried enough to listen to focus groups. But, that's just my "scary place" talking.

Edited:

"New" Alice, female protagonist: $1.02B world-wide.

And that my friends is why I see Alice is coming. That's pretty high for a "girl lead" movie.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

I can't wait for Lee's next post. Lol.

 

[Grizzly Hall 71]

From the article:

Staggs, who has three young sons, is said to have expressed concerns that the initial plans for Fantasyland were too narrowly tailored to girls. The Wizarding World, meanwhile, has delivered impressive early returns for Universal Orlando since formally opening June 18.
The more than $200 million addition to Universal’s Islands of Adventure theme park powered the resort to a 2 percent attendance gain during the second quarter, its first quarterly increase in two years. Attendance at Disney World sank 2 percent during a similar period.
“I think Harry Potter helped” push Disney executives to revisit their approach with Fantasyland, said Lutz, of MiceAge.com. “I think it had an influence to say, ‘Hey, this is something that can be done on this level, and it’s not at a Disney property.’ “
Staggs said Wizarding World has not been a factor in Disney’s Fantasyland plans. “I don’t see evidence that somehow that has changed anyone’s direction or made them think differently,” he said.
But he said Disney is trying to broaden the project’s overall appeal. For instance, plans for three interactive princess meet-and-greets — where children could dance with Cinderella, celebrate Sleeping Beauty’s 16th birthday or play a role in a story with Belle of Beauty and the Beast — are being altered.
“One of the things that I thought the early design did fantastically was delivered on that princess experience. And that does tend to skew towards girls. … We’ve kept that intact — not exactly, necessarily, the way it was presented, but that appeal is there,” Staggs said. “I think we’ve added some things that aren’t just princess-focused, and that’s a good positive.”
Staggs said planners are also reviewing the Fantasyland expansion with an eye toward blending “aspirational rides” — rides that offer thrills or tension — with attractions designed for guests of all ages. And he said they want to ensure that the additions are flexible and can be updated or adapted over time.

----------------------------------------

So you're right, nobody *said* it, but I think this is what was fueling the conversation

E ticket Thrill Ride? Reading this over again has changed my mind. It has to be something e ticket then but what?


Is it "the mountain that I shall never say again because I always get flamed when I say it" or is it villians mountain?

 

[lebeau]

I realize there are MANY confounding variables, but to give a rough approximation of the effect of male vs. female leads:

Worldwide Gross:
Beauty and the Beast: $348 million
Aladdin: $504 million
Lion King: $772 million
Pocahontas: $342 million

Oh good lord! The time fram you're quoting actually ties in directly with the PatF problem. Disney had been slowly rebuilding their relationship with their audience from Black Cauldron on. For the most part, each film was more successful than the last based on increased trust in the Disney brand.

Pocahontas stopped that trend because it was the first in a series of mis-steps that didn't connect with audiences the way Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin did.

It had little if anything to do with the gender of the lead character.

With PatF, Disney was expecting a Little Mermaid-style phenom. But they hadn't re-established the brand with audiences. Instead of slowly rebuilding the brand like they did in the 80s, Disney just expected to skip to the part where audiences embraced them and showered them with monetary rewards. It's no wonder that didn't happen!

 

[ToTBellHop]

I've been on a rant on how the FLE is to girly since it was announced. I've been in 100 page fights about it. But think, there's nothing else really that's going to fit the Fantasyland theme for boys unless it's something like Prince Phillip's Escape. It can't show any Sleepying Beauty scenes but just the final battle. But besides that what else? Villians aren't coming neither is the mountain that the people of these boards hate .

What else can be boy centric and be in a Fantasy world at the same time?

Pinocchio
Dumbo
Ichabod/Mr. Toad (never going to happen, but I'm going for a complete list)
Peter Pan (I know it's been shot down)
101 Dalmations (greatly underutilized)
Sword in the Stone
Jungle Book
Robin Hood
more Pooh (and they have a new Pooh movie coming out in 2011 = synergy)
Rescuers
Fox and the Hound
Black Cauldron (does anyone even remember this?)
Great Mouse Detective
Oliver and Company
Aladdin
Lion King
Hunchback
Hercules
Tarzan
Emperor's New Groove (waited too long for that)
Atlantis (did anyone see this?)
Stitch (cringe)
Treasure Planet (did anyone see this?)
Brother Bear (did anyone see this? Yet they made a sequel)
Chicken Little (cringe)
Meet the Robinsons (actually an okay movie)
Bolt
Reboot Ralph (which no one has even heard of yet, but comes out in 2013)

 

[lebeau]

----------------------------------------

So you're right, nobody *said* it, but I think this is what was fueling the conversation

The section of the article you quote seems to *refute* the notion that a male protaginst would be added to FLE. Not sure if that was your intention or not.

 

[Brian Noble]

Treasure Planet (did anyone see this?)

I recorded it off of Starz, watched about 20 minutes of it, and then deleted it from my TiVo.

Brother Bear (did anyone see this? Yet they made a sequel)

I did, and I *love* it. We re-watch it periodically. I think it's a very good story, and am not quite sure why it didn't connect with audiences a bit better.