Spoilers in this thread/Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

[Number_6]

To quote myself in post #59:



By "not human" I mean that the Ark and the Holy Grail are in ancient, sacred texts which were written by humans and have prominent place in history. The crystal skulls are not in ancient texts and do not have that "these actually have a story behind them and this might be real" quality to them. The aliens/interdimensional beings thing is just some story made up by people trying to explain it. Nothing's ever been found that says "these skulls are actually ALIEN skulls" like the Bible says "this cup was used by Jesus." It's not human. It's not historical. It's not anthropological. It's crazy science fiction.

To me, Indiana Jones isn't crazy science fiction. It's fiction about science. There's a difference.

I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time if you consider that the Mayans were around for a long time before the "ancient sacred texts" of the bible were written. They used a far different system of communicating history and ideas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_script
Add to that the fact that many codecs were destroyed by the Spaniards and there isn't really a lot to go by that isn't in the form of pictographs on the walls of ruins. What they went with in this movie was an interpretation of what the pictographs could mean. If you were part of an ancient culture and someone came to you from the sky and gave you advanced knowledge, wouldn't you think they were some sort of Gods? Wouldn't that be how you would write the encounter in the way your people record information? Is it a little silly? Maybe...

But then again, I see it as no more silly than something that was used to carry a couple of stone tablets being able to level a mountain or melt a bunch of Nazis. Or being able to drink from a cup and be healed of a mortal wound and gain eternal life if you keep drinking from it. Or having someone be able to rip another person's heart out and hold it, while it's still beating, that person living and then the heart bursting into flames when the person's body was dropped into a fire pit(of lava pit, whatever it was). And please, I'm not trying to bash anyone's beliefs, I only ask that if you had no connection to a belief system and were hearing for the first time about things like the Ark and the Grail, wouldn't you have almost the same reaction as you would to aliens? The Ark and the Grail would sound just like something out of sci-fi/fantasy. Or at least, it would to me, maybe that's just me though.

Anyway, I seem to be rambling a bit now, since it's almost 2am. I really need sleep at this point. Goodnight all. :snore:

 

[XaiChai]

ancient sacred text does not equal historical fact. The bible isn't particularly considered a history book, not in my opinion. I mean, lets not get into THAT discussion. There are crystal skulls and they do have a story behind them. Indy deals with the paranormal, things that COULD be real. There COULD be aliens just as much as there COULD be an ark. In fact, its there ARE crystal skulls vs. there COULD be an ark. And you said that nothings been found that says the skulls are alien skulls...well, nothings been found that says the ark is god's weapon of mass destruction and it melts everyones faces off unless you close your eyes. That didn't bother me and the aliens didn't bother me, cause they are both MOVIES :drevil:

 

[JCorduroy]

ancient sacred text does not equal historical fact. The bible isn't particularly considered a history book, not in my opinion. I mean, lets not get into THAT discussion. There are crystal skulls and they do have a story behind them. Indy deals with the paranormal, things that COULD be real. There COULD be aliens just as much as there COULD be an ark. In fact, its there ARE crystal skulls vs. there COULD be an ark. And you said that nothings been found that says the skulls are alien skulls...well, nothings been found that says the ark is god's weapon of mass destruction and it melts everyones faces off unless you close your eyes. That didn't bother me and the aliens didn't bother me, cause they are both MOVIES :drevil:

Not to mention that there's no where in the bible (that I can remember at least - if I'm wrong, forgive me, catholic school was ages ago) where it says that the holy grail grants everlasting life. Unless you want to get into the whole discussion the Christ himself is the grail, and he in turn grants everlasting life...

As far as the statement that Indy was a cryptozoologist, I have to disagree with that statement. If Indy was out only looking for the aliens in the entire movie, then yes, he was a cryptozoologist and I'd take issue with it. However, Indy's entire quest, at it's core, was to find Cibola/El Dorado, the lost city of gold. That's a HUGE archaeological discovery if it exists. Finding El Dorado, the Ark of the Covenant, the Sankara Stones, and the Holy Grail are of equal archaeological significance - one of the biggest archaeological discoveries in the past 500 years is Machu Picchu, a lost city (same as Cibola/El Dorado).

For me, the fact that everything that Indy has retreived thus far is based upon speculation and conjecture - there's no proof that the Ark ever existed, there's no proof that the Grail ever existed. (There is proof, however, that the Sankara/Shiva Lingam stones exist - but I don't think they're quite to the level of what was depicted in the movie, same as there's proof of the crystal skulls, not to the level of what was depicted in Kingdom.) It's all based upon how much you can suspend your disbelief and enjoy the ride. Personally, I don't think there's an all powerful ark of the covenant, a holy grail, a life granting sankara stone, or a psychic interdimensional crystal skull...but in Indiana Jones' world, they exist, and he's the best person for the job to discover them. I'm just glad to be a part of his adventures.

 

[Pongo]

ancient sacred text does not equal historical fact. The bible isn't particularly considered a history book, not in my opinion. I mean, lets not get into THAT discussion. There are crystal skulls and they do have a story behind them. Indy deals with the paranormal, things that COULD be real. There COULD be aliens just as much as there COULD be an ark. In fact, its there ARE crystal skulls vs. there COULD be an ark. And you said that nothings been found that says the skulls are alien skulls...well, nothings been found that says the ark is god's weapon of mass destruction and it melts everyones faces off unless you close your eyes. That didn't bother me and the aliens didn't bother me, cause they are both MOVIES :drevil:

Oh, trust me, I believe the Bible to be far from historical fact as well.

The movie was entertaining and a fun time, but it just wasn't Indy for me. I guess I'm just not a fan of aliens in general? :shrug:

 

[EpcotServo]

Whether or not you liked the aliens, you gotta give Spielberg and Lucas credit, they took a risk and tried somthing new. That's what I think really matters.

I don't think having contact with an alien being followed by a craft lifting from the ground is anything new for Spielberg.

:lol:

(Sorry, couldn't help it. I love the ending)

 

[WDWFREAK53]

I don't think having contact with an alien being followed by a craft lifting from the ground is anything new for Spielberg.

:lol:

(Sorry, couldn't help it. I love the ending)

Indy Phone HOME!!! :lol:

 

[artvandelay]

Here's the history of "I've got a bad feeling..."

The following George Lucas-created characters have "a bad feeling about this": Obi Wan Kenobi (Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999)), Anakin (Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002)), Obi Wan (Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005)), Luke (Star Wars (1977)), Han (Star Wars (1977)), Leia (Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)), C3-PO (Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983)), and Indiana Jones (like Han Solo, played by Harrison Ford) in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008).


This is from IMDB.

 

[InfernalPenguin]

Here's the history of "I've got a bad feeling..."

The following George Lucas-created characters have "a bad feeling about this": Obi Wan Kenobi (Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999)), Anakin (Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002)), Obi Wan (Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005)), Luke (Star Wars (1977)), Han (Star Wars (1977)), Leia (Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)), C3-PO (Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983)), and Indiana Jones (like Han Solo, played by Harrison Ford) in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008).


This is from IMDB.

I think they're missing Lando, I think he says it both in Empire and Return, just off the top of my head without checking my quotable Star Wars.

 

[artvandelay]

I think they're missing Lando, I think he says it both in Empire and Return, just off the top of my head without checking my quotable Star Wars.

I think you're right. I believe Lando says it when they drop out of hyperspace in front of the Death Star. I'll have to check.

 

[SpongeScott]

Easily the WORST of the four Indiana Jones movies. I'm very disappointed in this film.

 

[Dukeblue1016]

Easily the WORST of the four Indiana Jones movies. I'm very disappointed in this film.

I agree... i mean it kept me entertained and I enjoyed the film... but... i HATED the angle they played with it...


it was waayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too over the top...

didn't like that piece of it at all...

 

[prberk]

I agree... i mean it kept me entertained and I enjoyed the film... but... i HATED the angle they played with it...


it was waayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too over the top...

didn't like that piece of it at all...

Don't you remember that Raiders was meant to be over the top. (And thus the series.) It was a take-off on the '30s serials where the hero overcame rediculous odds in swashbuckliing adventure. That was the point -- but perhaps this movie didn't signal that well enough.

I liked it. But I could have done without the spaceman theme. The first and third movies at least played off well-known actual legends that helped, too.

Paul

 

[SpongeScott]

Don't you remember that Raiders was meant to be over the top. (And thus the series.) It was a take-off on the '30s serials where the hero overcame rediculous odds in swashbuckliing adventure. That was the point -- but perhaps this movie didn't signal that well enough.

I liked it. But I could have done without the spaceman theme. The first and third movies at least played off well-known actual legends that helped, too.

Paul

It was good to see the character back, it was good to see Harrison Ford step right back into it and not seem to miss a beat, but the storyline was so far-fetched, even for a movie. At least the other ones were plausibly possible the way they were presented, but this one was just off the wall. Too x-fileish.

 

[imagineer boy]

The first and third movies at least played off well-known actual legends that helped, too.

Um, the crystal skulls ARE well known actual legends. In fact, they exist!

BTW, I just saw it again the other day and I have a question. Who were those karate people with the skull masks at the temple dig site? Were they working for the soviets? Were they the undead? What were they?

 

[Pongo]

Um, the crystal skulls ARE well known actual legends. In fact, they exist!

BTW, I just saw it again the other day and I have a question. Who were those karate people with the skull masks at the temple dig site? Were they working for the soviets? Were they the undead? What were they?

I think they were probs natives...

 

[JimboJones123]

It was good to see the character back, it was good to see Harrison Ford step right back into it and not seem to miss a beat, but the storyline was so far-fetched, even for a movie. At least the other ones were plausibly possible the way they were presented, but this one was just off the wall. Too x-fileish.

So, the actual tablets that Moses wrote the 15 commandments on has the power to melt people's faces, and this was far-fetched?


I'm not trying to offend anybody here, but hear me out.

Indy I and III were both VERY LARGELY based on Christian beliefs. I mean, heck, he got past the Grail trials by Bowing Before God. Those two had the subtle underlying truth that God and Jesus both existed and are still relevant today.

This is what hurts Indy 2 so much. There is no Christian fallback. It's based more on "hokey religions" and less on Jesus based "ancient weapons."

The thought of real "aliens" or even worse, interdimentional "aliens" doesn't fit the belief system of a large chunk of viewers, so they throw it out as far fetched. If historic aliens were something that had more basis in fact, the total opinion of this film would be different.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but of the people I've talked to, the steady churchgoers dislike this movie much more than the people I know who aren't do devoted in their faith or church.

I liked it, LOTS.

You people do realize that in Raiders, previous seekers had sprung many of the boobie traps and the traps RESET themselves all on their own before Indy got there. Book signing by Hitler? Antidote by fire for brainwashing? I still think many people have based their feelings on this movie by movies they haven't seen in 1 if not 2 decades. Critics should revisit the source material again before they judge. Especially Last Crusade. That thing was just silly.