News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[MagicHappens1971]

Netflix alone paid $1B to license Sony’s library. What makes anyone think this movie is worth anything more that $5-10M post?

I don’t think anyone has implied or said that PATF is worth $5-10M….

The property by itself is probably worth north of 500M. The Disney Princess franchise is worth 45B.

Netflix was paying Disney 350M/year for new films prior to the streaming wars.

 

[monothingie]

The sales figures cited on the film's wikipedia article claim that the DVD release of PATF sold over 4.5 million copies and made $71.8 million in 2010. And as of 2019, it has allegedly made $119 million from its home releases.

The Princess and the Frog - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's assuming the source is accurate. But I do find it to be perfectly believable. There's ample historical precedent with a substantial number of Disney animated films flopping initially in theaters but later going on to become impressive sales juggernauts with rereleases. Especially on home video.

You do know that Disney only sees a percentage of those number? Home Video and physical media an only translate to approximately 25%. That also doesn’t account for marketing expenses which everyone always seems to forget exists.

 

[monothingie]

I don’t think anyone has implied or said that PATF is worth $5-10M….

The property by itself is probably worth north of 500M. The Disney Princess franchise is worth 45B.

I’d love to see how you get to $500M please show me. Then I’ll take off my shoes and socks and you can show me how you came to $45B.

Netflix was paying Disney 350M/year for new films prior to the streaming wars.

It was not for a single film, it was for much of the MCU library and rights for Netflix to develop original programming based off of licensing agreements.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

You do know that Disney only sees a percentage of those number? Home Video and physical media an only translate to approximately 25%.

I can't say I do know that. Where's your source for that number? I know there are costs involved such as the printing/writing of the physical discs and packaging (though optical media was/is an immensely cheaper form of media than prior tape based formats), as well as the fees needed to ship them out and stock shelves. But I don't know if I believe your claims that they only receive 25% of the profits from that. I think you're moving some goalposts here.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I’d love to see how you get to $500M please show me.

I misspoke (or typed) in writing my post the way I did.

However there are 12 official Disney princesses. The franchise is worth 45B. So ~3.7B per princess/film.

I went on the more conservative side, and that’s how I came to 500M.

It was not for a single film, it was for much of the MCU library and rights for Netflix to develop original programming based off of licensing agreements.

I could be wrong, but the news articles that announced it implied that it was just for the films. And while yes they got a bulk of the Disney library, they were really paying 350M/ year for new content.

 

[monothingie]

I can't say I do know that. Where's your source for that number? I know there are costs involved such as the printing/writing of the physical discs and packaging (though optical media was/is an immensely cheaper form of media than prior tape based formats), as well as the fees needed to ship them out and stock shelves. But I don't know if I believe your claims that they only receive 25% of the profits from that. I think you're moving some goalposts here.

When $20 DVDs existed how much went to the retailer, distributor, manufacturer, marketing?

Retailers take 50%. Distribution/Manufacturing/Marketing take at least 25%.

What’s left?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

When $20 DVDs existed how much went to the retailer, distributor, manufacturer, marketing?

Retailers take 50%. Distribution/Manufacturing/Marketing take at least 25%.

What’s left?

I wasn't asking for a repeat of the numbers, I was asking for a source of the numbers. The absolute highest numbers i've seen cited for the retailer's cut of the profit has been 40%. That's also for brick and mortar stores from what I gather. Online only retailers such as Amazon should be considerably lower.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

I wasn't asking for a repeat of the numbers, I was asking for a source of the numbers. The absolute highest numbers i've seen cited for the retailer's cut of the profit has been 40%. That's also for brick and mortar stores from what I gather. Online only retailers such as Amazon should be considerably lower.

40% if you’re selling the title at list price, but an overwhelming majority of those sales are within the first 60 days when they’re in sale…the markup will be MUCH less…many times new or featured titles are offered as a loss leader.

 

[aladdin2007]

Where's my Darby O'Gill ride!?!?

still waiting for my Gnome-Mobile ride

 

[TeriofTerror]

Where's my Darby O'Gill ride!?!?

No lie, I sing a song from that to my dog whenever he's feeling anxious. He's my dear, my darling one!

 

[RSoxNo1]

I'll preface this by saying, I'm cautiously optimistic about this attraction.

That being said, there's a fallacy that every IP is a franchise and that ever IP makes money. I'll call this one a special case, because the driver of the attraction change (in Disneyland) absolutely makes sense thematically. When combined with the public pressure and the change makes a ton of sense, for reasons other than synergy. Disney cat themselves on the back for righting a wrong, and do so with something that is connected to one of their biggest franchises: princesses.

 

[Weather_Lady]

PatF deserves better than retheming an old ride.

PatF doesn't deserve all it's getting. It's that simple.

Agreed! Or at least, it deserved better than _this_ retheme. Whether PaTF was a stellar IP or just a very good one, they took a movie with magic and romance and villainy and voodoo and life-and-death stakes and even a nod to the stumbling block of entrenched racism... and decided that what people really wanted more of was a childrens' sermon on ethical food production.

"Find the missing ingredient," indeed! What seems to be missing from Disney's Splash makeover is the slightest notion of what anyone enjoyed about PaTF in the first place.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It lost at minimum $40M in its theatrical run. Billion Dollar blockbusters are lucky to make $50M post. There is NO way that this movie netted anything positive since it left theaters.

But I guess losing $40+M these days for Disney would be considered a win.

No, going by the rule of thumb, it only lost $22M.

Budget of $105M according to Wiki. Plus 50% for advertising: $158. BO was $271. Half of that is Disney's: $136. Total loss: $22.

Home Media sales: $122. Surely Disney saw at least half of that making PatF net positive.

So... where are your numbers from?

 

[monothingie]

No, going by the rule of thumb, it only lost $22M.

Budget of $105M according to Wiki. Plus 50% for advertising: $158. BO was $271. Half of that is Disney's: $136. Total loss: $22.

Home Media sales: $122. Surely Disney saw at least half of that making PatF net positive.

So... where are your numbers from

I was referring to box office gross in that it needed $40M more at the box office to break even since that's the benchmark that everyone seems to like to use.

With regards to home media, the average retailer markup for DVDs is between 50 and 60%. The net profit to distribution (Disney) ranges anywhere from 20-30%). Marketing is not included but typically would be another 25%.

So over the course of 13 years it made Disney an additional $22-24M. A rousing success!

 

[MisterPenguin]

I was referring to box office gross in that it needed $40M more at the box office to break even since that's the benchmark that everyone seems to like to use.

With regards to home media, the average retailer markup for DVDs is between 50 and 60%. The net profit to distribution (Disney) ranges anywhere from 20-30%). Marketing is not included but typically would be another 25%.

So over the course of 13 years it made Disney an additional $22-24M. A rousing success!

That's enough to show it wasn't a loss.

 

[monothingie]

That's enough to show it wasn't a loss. Or a lose as some would say.

I'm sure the shareholders love it!.

Indy 5 will eventually break even in around 84 years!
Wish will break even in 30 years!
The Marvels will break even in around 68 years!

 

[JD80]

How are they measuring financial success though? They have the data to know who is watching what and how many times, so they know how many unique subscribers are watching Moana. So that can help. But there isn’t a simple formula like before.

Streaming platforms consider certain content "anchor" content that keeps people subscribed like The Office on Netflix for all those years. There is A LOT of content on D+ and my kids comb through it's catalog and find the oddest cartoons I never new existing. They've been watching "Big City Greens" for a few weeks now.

In any case, things like Bluey and Moana are anchor content that keep people paying $15 a month because their kids love it.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I don’t think we can discount simply the sheer Princess branding. That is the special sauce.

This has also been mentioned previously regarding Brave. For a film that seems to have been one of the lower performers in terms of box office and reviews from Pixar's golden age, it seems strangely front of mind when they're putting shows or meet-and-greets together at the parks. That Merida is the one Pixar princess seems to be a good explanation for the film's staying power.

 

[JD80]

I'm sorry, but did Tiana kidnap your family or something? Eef.

Random Internet Person: Only things that make a gazillion dollars should get put in to the parks.
Disney Parks Executive: See! No need for original park IP for attractions.
Random Internet Person: No, that's not what I meant...
Disney Parks Executive: Green Light that Zootopia attraction!
Random Internet Person:

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Profitable or not is kind of irrelevant at this point, show people a picture of Tiana and most are going to know who she is, she’s universally known. That’s the value of the IP.

Where box office, streaming data, merch sales, etc is relevant though is in gauging popularity across similar properties, if we are debating which Princess should receive a ride it makes sense to look at the data, if one made $2 billion dollars and the other made $500 million I know which one I’d put in the parks. Same with the Nielsen ratings, or even anecdotal evidence like how many dresses we see in the parks. They‘d all factor in.