That it would! Using Tom Sawyer Island for expansion would be of great use to the MK!
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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure
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That it would! Using Tom Sawyer Island for expansion would be of great use to the MK!
Disney4allseasons
New Member
More New Orleans would be great. Something like in Disneyland with loads more Beignets. I know you can get them at Port Orleans but it would just make my day to have them in the Magic Kingdom, along with New Orleans, Mardi Gras and Princess and the Frog!
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
Yes! Mardi Gras, Fireflies, singing and dancing alligators then throw in the fragrance of Beignets. It won't be a boring log flume ride.
FettFan
Well-Known Member
Aye and the two islands comprising TSI has plenty of room to build. The northern island alone has more area than the Haunted Mansion, and the only thing there is Fort Langhorn. Perfect amount of space for a PatF ride.
The southern island could be the Riverfront/Riverwalk area. Aunt Polly's Quick Service could stay (because nostalgia), but you could replace everything else and actually make it pop. Harper's Mill would have to be removed because there just aren't any functional water wheels in south Louisiana.
seabreezept813
Well-Known Member
As an English teacher and Twain fan, even my family has never bothered to go to TSI. Using that space would be such a better choice. I
_caleb
Well-Known Member
What is it about TSI that would make you not want to visit it? Just curious.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I’ve never visited either, but that’s because my trips are never long enough to allow for the more leisurely kinds of activities. Still, I’m glad it’s there, and I look forward to experiencing it one day.
seabreezept813
Well-Known Member
It actually has nothing to do with not wanting to visit it, it’s 100% about time. We really prioritize the classic rides and want to get in 2-3 rides on Pirates, Mansion, Splash etc. each trip. Also, I have a 2 year old and 16 year old stepdaughter so we don’t skip any larger rides (just do swap) or slower family rides. I’ve watched videos and seen pictures of TSI and I’ve read and taught Tom Sawyer, it’s just something that we’ve never had time to do. It’s more walking, more traveling to get there, and no major attraction to draw us in.. if I were local or sometime when I can tour at a slower pace, we’d check it out. But it ranks so far below going on Splash multiple times—my family’s favorite ride in the whole Disney resort.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I think there are two big reasons that people don't go to TSI.
First, I think a lot of people don't even realize it's there. It's not like it's well-marked. Secondly, if you do know it's there, a lot of people aren't interested in having to stand and wait for the raft to both get on and off the island. They don't want to spend 45 minutes on that when they could be waiting in line for a ride instead.
Rafiki's Planet Watch at Animal Kingdom suffers from the same issues.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I do find it interesting that fans of the current Splash so readily accepted the America Sings AAs (with their styling/art direction) as being authentic and appropriate for the Song of the South (animated segments) theme.
I think they did a great job making it all work as a coherent theme, but the America Sings AAs were not originally designed to match the visual look of Bre’r Rabbit/Fox/Bear. Yet so many fans here talk about how the current Splash Mountain is perfection.
Seems like if they were to try the same these days, people would be up in arms over all recycling/repurposing.
I think they did a great job making it all work as a coherent theme, but the America Sings AAs were not originally designed to match the visual look of Bre’r Rabbit/Fox/Bear. Yet so many fans here talk about how the current Splash Mountain is perfection.
Seems like if they were to try the same these days, people would be up in arms over all recycling/repurposing.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
The WDW version of Tom Sawyer Island is unique and not the same as its Tokyo or California counterparts.
I wouldn't want to see it go any more than Splash Mountain.
Use one of MK's expansion plots for Tiana's ride instead.
I wouldn't want to see it go any more than Splash Mountain.
Use one of MK's expansion plots for Tiana's ride instead.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
We seem to miss it most often because it tends to close early. Now that our boys have experienced it though, I'm sure we'll be back more often. It's lovely for spending some time at a slower pace and letting the boys let off some steam.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
There used to be a time when rides based on Disney movies could take liberties with their source material and do their own thing.
The Wind in the Willows did not have devils, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea didn't have mermaids, The Witch was never in the dwarfs mine etc
Splash Mountain is an adaptation of Song of the South, not a recreation. Using other characters designed by directing animator Marc Davis works because even those figures had their voices/personalities changed to fit the new narrative. Also, the WDW version does not duplicate all of them, just enough to fill out the scenes.
It would have been worse if Sam and the Owl were simply plopped into the ride with no changes, but WDI didn't do that.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
I mean this in the most adult way possible and as someone that has an older autistic brother...
I think Phillip may be disabled and it's probably best to not engage.
owlsandcoffee
Well-Known Member
Liberty Square is one of the finest pieces of themed design WED ever created. New Orleans Square probably beats it by a hair (of course Iger is doing everything in his power to make that "Club 33 Land") but it's the best-themed land at WDW.
That arc from Liberty Square to Thunder Mesa was designed in geographical order; you go from New England and Philadelphia, down to the Southwest (Pecos Bill, Davy Crockett, etc.), and finally up to the West with Thunder Mesa/Big Thunder Mountain, which is themed after Colorado's Monument Valley.
Splash as it stands is already a wrench in that. It's based on stories that a Georgian author learned from Southern black slaves. A strongly New Orleans-themed Splash is just going to be worse. My preference would be building a PatF ride in Fantasyland and theme Splash to match Big Thunder.
That arc from Liberty Square to Thunder Mesa was designed in geographical order; you go from New England and Philadelphia, down to the Southwest (Pecos Bill, Davy Crockett, etc.), and finally up to the West with Thunder Mesa/Big Thunder Mountain, which is themed after Colorado's Monument Valley.
Splash as it stands is already a wrench in that. It's based on stories that a Georgian author learned from Southern black slaves. A strongly New Orleans-themed Splash is just going to be worse. My preference would be building a PatF ride in Fantasyland and theme Splash to match Big Thunder.
Is Haunted Mansion in New England? Is it Colonial? It's certainly listed as being part of Liberty Square, but has no theme of a national pursuit of liberty. Although, when they have live actors in front of it on Halloween party nights, they speak with a heavy Southern Accent.
Is Liberty Square Riverboat also Colonial New England? It seems very Mississippian to me.
Then there's Diamond Horseshoe, also listed by Disney as being part of Liberty Square. But it's description says it's "Old West."
But anyway, going by geography, we've moved to the West by the time we hit Diamond Horseshoe.
And then we hit Country Bears and we're out of the West and in the Deep South. We're also officially in Frontierland. Although, while CBJ has one song about the frontiersman, Davy Crockett, everything else about CBJ is just 20th century Southern.
Meanwhile, on Rivers of America, it ignores traveling on different rivers of America (which the newly revised RoA in DL does well). Instead, the narration is all Mark Twain and Mississippian. Even passing Big Thunder or the Haunted mansion there's no mention of being out West or in the East.
Then there's the problematic Splash Mountain for it's lack of place-setting as being in a frontier land.
But, this is the common complaint of the theming of Frontierland: It thinks "Southern" is frontier, even when it's portraying a Southern geography which hasn't been a frontier for one to two hundred years.
And Liberty Square contains attractions which are neither Eastern, Colonial, nor have a theme of 'Liberty' (HM, LS Riverboat, Horseshoe Diamond).
The storyline that LS to Frontierland is arranged geographically and/or chronologically is not currently the case. It has too many exceptions to the rule.
owlsandcoffee
Well-Known Member
You'll note I said "was designed", not "is currently", so we already agree on that point. I was talking about WED's intentions in 1970 and trying to more perfectly achieve them.
The Haunted Mansion is in New England, actually. That's a blog post but it has real sources. I'd recommend Passport to Dreams anyways, it's great. The original design for the WDW HM, as the above link shows, was actually more in tune with the Colonial style. They ended up capitulating to the more visually interesting choice. That kinda already ruined the whole thing.
The Riverboat is based on the Mississippi River, yes, with reference to Mark Twain specifically. He and Walt were both raised in Missouri, which was probably part of the reason Walt incorporated his fiction into DL. Basically I'd say the RoA and TSI are both meant to represent Missouri but fit pretty cleanly into the 19th century. Missouri also lies literally in the cradle of a loop from New England to Texas. It's a clever bit of design.
As for whatever genius decided that the Diamond Horseshoe is in Liberty Square, I'm stumped. It almost seems like a mistake to me, considering it's so obviously a 19th-century Old West Saloon.
CBJ probably owes more to Bakersfield, California than the South. To my mind Country-Western music counts as a Western attraction, even if it's an anachronism.
Basically the bones are there but over and over they gradually loosened the rules to fit attractions. It started with the time period for the Mansion facade, then the time period for the Country Bears. After that Splash ended up being in the wrong time period AND location but at that point who really cared?
My point is that they now have a chance for Frontierand to be a proper Western land, if they so chose it to be.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
That's the problem. Liberty Square isn't a sustainable concept for today's Disney where everything has to tie to an IP. The best hope for a thematically appropriate attraction in the Liberty Square / Frontierland area would be something related to Pocahontas. The best option for the future of this land is either non-IP (not with the current admin) or a theme change.
Considering that the area is also home to attractions that can be considered controversial (Splash, Country Bears, the Native American Village, Tom Sawyer Island and Hall of Presidents), it certainly stands to reason that a re-theme of the area makes sense logically.
Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective), I can't imagine there's a true budget for that type of re-imagining.
Basil of Baker Street
Well-Known Member
Probably an unpopular opinion but Hall of Presidents takes up a lot of space. I haven't been to it in years. I wouldn't have a problem with the entire Liberty Square being re themed to something different but I still say Tom Sawyer Island is the ideal spot for Princess and the Frog.
Brer_Bear_Is_Number_One
Member
Frontierland was never meant to be only Western themed. It’s called “Frontier”land – meaning a tribute to the American frontier – the rugged lands that stretched across the entire nation – from the Appalachians to the Great Plains to the Rockies to the Desert Southwest. It’s an ode to the pioneering spirit – American exploration.
Just think of Davy Crockett. He’s Disney’s very embodiment of “frontier,” and yet he only goes West when he fights at the Alamo. At the beginning of the movie, he’s in Tennessee (“greenest state in the land of the free”). In the second movie, he’s moving along the Ohio River with Mike Fink – a place far from the West.
That’s why it’s called the “Rivers of America” in Frontierland, and not “Rivers of the West.” They used to have the Mike Fink keelboats on it. The Rivers of America encircle Tom Sawyer’s Island. Tom Sawyer, like Crockett, was all about exploring.
If you read any of the old official WDW books (that were published long before Splash was even conceived), you’ll see that Frontierland is themed after the pioneering spirit and the timeframe of the 1770s-1880s (roughly the period right after Liberty Square and before Main Street).
The Country Bears fit right in. Even though it’s set in the year it opened (1971), it’s an ode to that timeframe and the ideas of pioneers. That’s why you have Henry singing about Davy Crockett, Big Al in a cowboy hat singing a song set in the old West (Blood on the Saddle), and Teddi Barra being like an old-time saloon girl, and the Five Bear Rugs being like hillbillies. Buff is a buffalo – a creature of the Great Plains. Melvin is a moose – an animal of the north. The entire show takes place in Grizzly Hall – grizzly bears live up near the north. The Bears were never meant to be tethered to one geographic location.
Splash Mountain fits into that theme of the 1770s-1880s, and pioneers, too. Song of the South takes place after the Civil War ended (late 1860s about). The whole story of Splash is Brer Rabbit “moving along, looking for adventure” much like a pioneer. The animated segments in Song of the South (which the ride is based on) are set out in the wilderness – the frontier.
The problem with trying to shoehorn Princess and the Frog into Frontierland is that it fits neither that time period nor does it have a pioneering spirit. Princess and the Frog takes place in 1926. For reference, that’s only two years before Steamboat Willie came out – a far cry from the 1770s-1880s. And, the movie doesn’t have anything to do with being a pioneer. Tiana’s main goal is to open a restaurant in New Orleans (a place already crowded with restaurants). There’s nothing pioneering about that. I'd put Princess and the Frog in Fantasyland. They could use the building that once housed Snow White's Scary Adventure.
Just think of Davy Crockett. He’s Disney’s very embodiment of “frontier,” and yet he only goes West when he fights at the Alamo. At the beginning of the movie, he’s in Tennessee (“greenest state in the land of the free”). In the second movie, he’s moving along the Ohio River with Mike Fink – a place far from the West.
That’s why it’s called the “Rivers of America” in Frontierland, and not “Rivers of the West.” They used to have the Mike Fink keelboats on it. The Rivers of America encircle Tom Sawyer’s Island. Tom Sawyer, like Crockett, was all about exploring.
If you read any of the old official WDW books (that were published long before Splash was even conceived), you’ll see that Frontierland is themed after the pioneering spirit and the timeframe of the 1770s-1880s (roughly the period right after Liberty Square and before Main Street).
The Country Bears fit right in. Even though it’s set in the year it opened (1971), it’s an ode to that timeframe and the ideas of pioneers. That’s why you have Henry singing about Davy Crockett, Big Al in a cowboy hat singing a song set in the old West (Blood on the Saddle), and Teddi Barra being like an old-time saloon girl, and the Five Bear Rugs being like hillbillies. Buff is a buffalo – a creature of the Great Plains. Melvin is a moose – an animal of the north. The entire show takes place in Grizzly Hall – grizzly bears live up near the north. The Bears were never meant to be tethered to one geographic location.
Splash Mountain fits into that theme of the 1770s-1880s, and pioneers, too. Song of the South takes place after the Civil War ended (late 1860s about). The whole story of Splash is Brer Rabbit “moving along, looking for adventure” much like a pioneer. The animated segments in Song of the South (which the ride is based on) are set out in the wilderness – the frontier.
The problem with trying to shoehorn Princess and the Frog into Frontierland is that it fits neither that time period nor does it have a pioneering spirit. Princess and the Frog takes place in 1926. For reference, that’s only two years before Steamboat Willie came out – a far cry from the 1770s-1880s. And, the movie doesn’t have anything to do with being a pioneer. Tiana’s main goal is to open a restaurant in New Orleans (a place already crowded with restaurants). There’s nothing pioneering about that. I'd put Princess and the Frog in Fantasyland. They could use the building that once housed Snow White's Scary Adventure.
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