News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

What if: In order to "save" Splash Mountain at WDW (and Frontierland as a whole) Imagineering decided to rework the attraction to feature the Country Bears? (Nah, I'm serious!)

I was thinking about this the other night. Based on the information gathered in this thread it seems apparent that Disney is looking to shed some of it's more problematic attractions. I can't think of any-one-land that has more "issues" than those presented in Frontierland. Given that "Country Bears" has been on/off rumored for closure (Anyone know the latest?) and with Splash presumably on the chopping block for it's subject matter; the solution for change could very well be a massive overhaul of Frontierland; a complete retheme of the entire land.
It's been armchaired here numerous times. Seems a good solution but would we lose Fronterland's identity in the process?

I might have a compromise. What if Imagineering in their quest to salvage Fronterland could somehow combine the Country Bear AAs with Splash creating an entirely new Splash Mountain attraction? In the likelihood (because I do think it likely) that Country Bears is shuttered; it would be a great disservice to see the AA bears gone forever. The same could be said for much of Splash Mountain's AAs.

Excluding for a moment that WDW's Splash Mountain will likely receive a Princess and the Frog overlay, doesn't it make more sense to create a two-birds, one-stone fix for Frontierland by developing a new Splash story one that keeps most of it's AAs? One that keeps the Country Bears in Frontierland? One that keep "Fronterland" Fronterland? That's what I stay up a night thinking about. :/

In doing this however, Disney will have merged two attractions down to one. Not a great idea but it beats an outright closure of Country Bears. (But there's a fix for that hypothetical too!) So then... what to do with the now vacant Country Bears building? Enter another often-suggested armchair idea of converting that little area (a no-man's land comprised mainly of footpaths) between Frontierland and Liberty as WDW's own little New Orleans District. Guests can get their PatF fix via a subtle N.O. Riverboat retheme, an AA show or more budget conscious M&G (vacated Country Bears building) and a new Tiana's Palace restaurant retheme.

The idea of this however all hinges on Disney's ability to address the problem areas in Frontierland while still keeping it's core themes. Is any of this doable? :shrugs: Would such a re-theme and land overhaul be possible? And more importantly is the idea Satisfactual for everyone?

 

[MisterPenguin]

The idea of this however all hinges on Disney's ability to address the problem areas in Frontierland while still keeping it's core themes. Is any of this doable? :shrugs: Would such a re-theme and land overhaul be possible? And more importantly is the idea Satisfactual for everyone?

Money and the economy would be limiting factors.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

Money and the economy would be limiting factors.

Among other things. Just figured I'd put the idea out there. I guess nothing will be happening in the immediate future regardless.

 

[Brer Panther]

What if: In order to "save" Splash Mountain at WDW (and Frontierland as a whole) Imagineering decided to rework the attraction to feature the Country Bears? (Nah, I'm serious!)

I was thinking about this the other night. Based on the information gathered in this thread it seems apparent that Disney is looking to shed some of it's more problematic attractions. I can't think of any-one-land that has more "issues" than those presented in Frontierland. Given that "Country Bears" has been on/off rumored for closure (Anyone know the latest?) and with Splash presumably on the chopping block for it's subject matter; the solution for change could very well be a massive overhaul of Frontierland; a complete retheme of the entire land.
It's been armchaired here numerous times. Seems a good solution but would we lose Fronterland's identity in the process?

I might have a compromise. What if Imagineering in their quest to salvage Fronterland could somehow combine the Country Bear AAs with Splash creating an entirely new Splash Mountain attraction? In the likelihood (because I do think it likely) that Country Bears is shuttered; it would be a great disservice to see the AA bears gone forever. The same could be said for much of Splash Mountain's AAs.

Excluding for a moment that WDW's Splash Mountain will likely receive a Princess and the Frog overlay, doesn't it make more sense to create a two-birds, one-stone fix for Frontierland by developing a new Splash story one that keeps most of it's AAs? One that keeps the Country Bears in Frontierland? One that keep "Fronterland" Fronterland? That's what I stay up a night thinking about. :/

In doing this however, Disney will have merged two attractions down to one. Not a great idea but it beats an outright closure of Country Bears. (But there's a fix for that hypothetical too!) So then... what to do with the now vacant Country Bears building? Enter another often-suggested armchair idea of converting that little area (a no-man's land comprised mainly of footpaths) between Frontierland and Liberty as WDW's own little New Orleans District. Guests can get their PatF fix via a subtle N.O. Riverboat retheme, an AA show or more budget conscious M&G (vacated Country Bears building) and a new Tiana's Palace restaurant retheme.

The idea of this however all hinges on Disney's ability to address the problem areas in Frontierland while still keeping it's core themes. Is any of this doable? :shrugs: Would such a re-theme and land overhaul be possible? And more importantly is the idea Satisfactual for everyone?

Problem is, the Country Bears aren't an IP. And in Bob Iger's Disney, non-IP based attractions are dangerous.

 

[celluloid]

Problem is, the Country Bears aren't an IP. And in Bob Iger's Disney, non-IP based attractions are dangerous.

It does feature a large portion of the show dedicated to the most successful merch and media money maker of all time for the company. I know it is not seen as relevant enough to the krumugen though.

 

[Surferboy567]

It does feature a large portion of the show dedicated to the most successful merch and media money maker of all time for the company. I know it is not seen as relevant enough to the krumugen though.

Have you heard anything new?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Western River Expedition is the only acceptable replacement. Time to combine the two mountains and create one amazing experience as intended 50 years ago.

The documentation of the ride in Marc Davis In His Own Words is outstanding.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Western River Expedition is the only acceptable replacement. Time to combine the two mountains and create one amazing experience as intended 50 years ago.

Tony Baxter will propose a cheaper alternative

 

[lazyboy97o]

Problem is, the Country Bears aren't an IP. And in Bob Iger's Disney, non-IP based attractions are dangerous.

It is an IP. It is not a franchise.

 

[FettFan]

What if: In order to "save" Splash Mountain at WDW (and Frontierland as a whole) Imagineering decided to rework the attraction to feature the Country Bears? (Nah, I'm serious!)

I was thinking about this the other night. Based on the information gathered in this thread it seems apparent that Disney is looking to shed some of it's more problematic attractions. I can't think of any-one-land that has more "issues" than those presented in Frontierland. Given that "Country Bears" has been on/off rumored for closure (Anyone know the latest?) and with Splash presumably on the chopping block for it's subject matter; the solution for change could very well be a massive overhaul of Frontierland; a complete retheme of the entire land.
It's been armchaired here numerous times. Seems a good solution but would we lose Fronterland's identity in the process?

I might have a compromise. What if Imagineering in their quest to salvage Fronterland could somehow combine the Country Bear AAs with Splash creating an entirely new Splash Mountain attraction? In the likelihood (because I do think it likely) that Country Bears is shuttered; it would be a great disservice to see the AA bears gone forever. The same could be said for much of Splash Mountain's AAs.

Excluding for a moment that WDW's Splash Mountain will likely receive a Princess and the Frog overlay, doesn't it make more sense to create a two-birds, one-stone fix for Frontierland by developing a new Splash story one that keeps most of it's AAs? One that keeps the Country Bears in Frontierland? One that keep "Fronterland" Fronterland? That's what I stay up a night thinking about. :/

In doing this however, Disney will have merged two attractions down to one. Not a great idea but it beats an outright closure of Country Bears. (But there's a fix for that hypothetical too!) So then... what to do with the now vacant Country Bears building? Enter another often-suggested armchair idea of converting that little area (a no-man's land comprised mainly of footpaths) between Frontierland and Liberty as WDW's own little New Orleans District. Guests can get their PatF fix via a subtle N.O. Riverboat retheme, an AA show or more budget conscious M&G (vacated Country Bears building) and a new Tiana's Palace restaurant retheme.

The idea of this however all hinges on Disney's ability to address the problem areas in Frontierland while still keeping it's core themes. Is any of this doable? :shrugs: Would such a re-theme and land overhaul be possible? And more importantly is the idea Satisfactual for everyone?

I like this idea.

Another idea would be turning Splash into an original attraction featuring another famous Disney rabbit...

Let's face it, Oswald has been woefully underutilized by Disney. (and Runaway Railway could have easily been a Trolley Troubles ride....)

And PatF could still have a great original home on Tom Sawyer Island. Because Tom Sawyer is pretty much dead anyway.

And I'm sorry to say it, but I have a very low opinion of Mark Twain. When I was a teenager, I was devouring Wells, Asimov, King, and Crichton on a weekly basis. But Twain bored me to tears. I didn't really give a crap about Tom Sawyer. By the time he was in the church rafters watching his own memorial service, I was wishing the little creep would have died for good.

 

[Brer Panther]

It is an IP. It is not a franchise.

Yeah, but Bob Iger's Disney doesn't consider theme park original characters "IPs" for some reason.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yeah, but Bob Iger's Disney doesn't consider theme park original characters "IPs" for some reason.

They’re not franchises. That’s the distinction. The focus is on franchises, not just IP.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Yeah, but Bob Iger's Disney doesn't consider theme park original characters "IPs" for some reason.

Which is ridiculous...they have huge followings and could be built into very profitable IPs if they desired.

 

[Brer Panther]

They’re not franchises. That’s the distinction. The focus is on franchises, not just IP.

Well, does The Princess and the Frog really qualify as a "franchise"? Doesn't a "franchise" have to consist of more than one movie, or at least one movie and a TV show?

 

[owlsandcoffee]

Well, does The Princess and the Frog really qualify as a "franchise"? Doesn't a "franchise" have to consist of more than one movie, or at least one movie and a TV show?

Nah, it doesn't. The reason they're doing PatF is to save face with people who are concerned about the racism of Song of the South. If they hadn't had public pressure they likely would've gone with Aladdin or something.

Truth is, Iger's angle is basically making the biggest improvement on rider numbers. Hence Frozen gets squeezed into Maelstrom. Splash Mountain already gets huge numbers so the only real reason to change the IP is because they're all seeing their shadows over the Uncle Remus stories.

 

[FettFan]

Nah, it doesn't. The reason they're doing PatF is to save face with people who are concerned about the racism of Song of the South. If they hadn't had public pressure they likely would've gone with Aladdin or something.

Truth is, Iger's angle is basically making the biggest improvement on rider numbers. Hence Frozen gets squeezed into Maelstrom. Splash Mountain already gets huge numbers so the only real reason to change the IP is because they're all seeing their shadows over the Uncle Remus stories.

Disney: We won't put SotS on Disney Plus because we stand for wholesome, inoffensive family entertainment!

Also Disney:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’ve got a BIG scoop for u!<br><br>I’m hearing <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DisneyPlus?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#DisneyPlus</a> <br>is DEFINITELY creating adult section<br>for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Fox?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#Fox</a> &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Touchstone?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#Touchstone</a> content!<br><br>You’ll need a pin code or something like that to unlock it as a parental control.<br><br>I’ll make a video when <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Disney?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#Disney</a> officially announces it w/ branding etc! <a href="https://t.co/Iw0Aa2CfQS">pic.twitter.com/Iw0Aa2CfQS</a></p>&mdash; Grace Randolph (@GraceRandolph) <a href="">August 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MisterPenguin]

Disney: We won't put SotS on Disney Plus because we stand for wholesome, inoffensive family entertainment!

Also Disney:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’ve got a BIG scoop for u!<br><br>I’m hearing <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DisneyPlus?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#DisneyPlus</a> <br>is DEFINITELY creating adult section<br>for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Fox?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#Fox</a> &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Touchstone?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#Touchstone</a> content!<br><br>You’ll need a pin code or something like that to unlock it as a parental control.<br><br>I’ll make a video when <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Disney?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#Disney</a> officially announces it w/ branding etc! <a href="https://t.co/Iw0Aa2CfQS">pic.twitter.com/Iw0Aa2CfQS</a></p>&mdash; Grace Randolph (@GraceRandolph) <a href="">August 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Discussed here:

K, the source of this is Grace Randolph, who has a very spotty track record.

The argument that Disney would not put more adult content on D+ is that that's what Hulu is for.

The counter-argument to that is that Hulu is not available internationally.

The counter-counter-argument to that is that's what the new service "Star" is for.. to provide Disney-owned content in markets that can't get Hulu (because of Hulu's entanglement in providing live streaming of broadcast channels which is regional-locked). Star will basically be Hulu International, but just the Disney properties. If you want Disney family and adult content, you get D+Hulu in the U.S., or, you get D+Star internationally.

If there were no Star, I'd put more weight on D+ getting an adult section.

But now that adult content that Disney owns will be available on Hulu and Star world wide... it weakens the idea of an adult section of D+.

Also, shouldn't you express your outrage for things that actually happen instead of only might happen?

 

[CJR]

Well, does The Princess and the Frog really qualify as a "franchise"? Doesn't a "franchise" have to consist of more than one movie, or at least one movie and a TV show?

Country Bears is actually closer to a franchise than PatF since it has the attraction and its movie, which Disney probably likes to forget. At the moment, PatF is just a movie.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Well, does The Princess and the Frog really qualify as a "franchise"? Doesn't a "franchise" have to consist of more than one movie, or at least one movie and a TV show?

Depends on what the bar is for a "franchise". If you're talking the literal definition, generally more than one movie is indicative, but if there's merchansiding potential worth capitalizing on (even if not quite enough to greenlight a sequel) then the bar is met.

The crux of this whole thing is Disney's interest in doing away with Song of the South. That's the definitive starting point. Disney does not wish to perpetuate its usage in any form. We've reached the point where they no longer wish to exempt Splash Mountain from that.

From there they went "if we're gonna get rid of the Song of the South elements in Splash Mountain, then what could we replace them with?" - So they turned to properties that 1) Make money, either through movies or TV or merchandise, and 2) Could be made to fit on the bones of the existsing Splash Mountains. In that order.

Princess and the Frog has merchandising behind it - more than Song of the South ever did or Splash Mountain ever will. Is it their biggest money maker? No, but it does make money, there are cultural incentives to add it (internally and externally, lest it be thought I'm saying the public made this decision for them) AND there isn't a more obvious property that covers all the necessary bases. Not one that follows their order of operations, at least. You could find another property that makes more sense in Frontierland, but it won't be one that makes as much money as Tiana, for example, so the scale doesn't tip.

The setting of PATF also has potential to work nestled up to New Orleans Square at Disneyland (in theory, at least), which is also a consideration - they don't want to redesign the different Splash Mountains into two different new attractions. So what's good for the Gander is good for the Goose, in this case - they're splitting the difference on what could pass on both coasts.

And THEN, probably after ALL that comes the consideration of what could actually make for, you know, an actual good attraction. Princess and the Frog has some fun characters, good music, and interesting locations that have the potential to translate into a fun theme park experience. AND a good portion of the movie takes place on waterways, and therefore could be served by a flume ride. Bingo. Or at least, you know, close enough.

Considering how many boxes there are to check, and the order in which Disney prioritizes them, there really isn't an existing property better suited to replacing Splash Mountain - which, again, is the pin on which this whole thing turns and that really bears repeating. Their interest is in doing away with Splash Mountain in its current form - and because that's decided the question then becomes what to do with what will be left of the ride. Which is SUPER different from the flow of logic in the opposite direction, which is what many people here seem to think.

Kicking the Brer's out of Splash was the first domino in this chain, not the last. Therefore, PATF being brought in is a solution to a foregone conclusion, not an assertion over the ride as we know and love it. You know?

 

[Brer Panther]

Well, their plan to remove any trace of Song of the South isn't gonna work. Tokyo refused to retheme their version, and the characters still make cameos in films like Who Framed Roger Rabbit and The Lion King 1 1/2.