News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[BuddyThomas]

Why don’t you just let the new attraction get designed and let it open first and then you can decide whether to ride it or not. But saying that it belongs there less than Splash because Splash somehow mysteriously all of a sudden takes place in the “frontier” instead of the plantation deep Georgia south is disingenuous at best.

 

[andysol]

Yeah words matter and so does hypocrisy. The same people who are screeching that Tiana does not belong in Frontierland give that busted up, broken down, outdated Splash ride that is inspired by the Deep South and not inspired by any sort of “frontier” in any possible way a complete and total pass.

Busted up , broken down and outdated? Say what?

Sure a log will sink here and there. But outdated?

Ok, I get you really want to “pick a side” here. But it’s ok to admit that splash is and was freaking amazing while still being even more excited about PatF.

It’s literally one of the two most revolutionary rides in all of WDW- ToT being the other.

Transformed a log flume in the same manner ToT transformed a drop tower.

 

[Tha Realest]

Davy Crockett was one of the central characters featured in the original Frontierland.

His Disney series theme song, and one of his films, calls him the “king of the wild frontier.”

The historical Davy Crockett spent most of his life in Tennessee, and would represent it in Congress, a state which did not even become a state until a decade after Crockett was born. Crockett would spend other parts of his life in Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, and what would become known as Florida and Alabama.

It’s not incongruent at all that a ”Frontierland” harkening back to the days of Davy Crockett would be steeped, in part, of places based in the American South, because during that time those places were the frontier.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Busted up , broken down and outdated? Say what?

Sure a log will sink here and there. But outdated?

Ok, I get you really want to “pick a side” here. But it’s ok to admit that splash is and was freaking amazing while still being even more excited about PatF.

It’s literally one of the two most revolutionary rides in all of WDW- ToT being the other.

Transformed a log flume in the same manner ToT transformed a drop tower.

Maybe they should put a log flume in the drop tower. Then we’d be in business.

 

[crazy4disney]

Busted up , broken down and outdated? Say what?

Sure a log will sink here and there. But outdated?

Ok, I get you really want to “pick a side” here. But it’s ok to admit that splash is and was freaking amazing while still being even more excited about PatF.

It’s literally one of the two most revolutionary rides in all of WDW- ToT being the other.

Transformed a log flume in the same manner ToT transformed a drop tower.

2 amazing rides & honestly i truly feel Splash was the best ride Disney produced that literally covers every single base in its glory for a theme park.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Country Bear Jamboree is a self-aware tribute to the 1800s variety shows.

Not really the same as Prohibition LA.

Then why ain't they singing songs from the 1800s?

 

[MisterPenguin]

I would re-read that. If you want to get snarky with the "huh" you should know more. Frontierland is not JUST a western themed area.

Davy Crockett has been the ever-present IP and most famous one goes back to day one and is still heavily referenced today. He was born on a mountain top and Tennessee and is king of the wild frontier and most of the song is about the East Coast from the mountains of Tennessee to working in the government and referencing the Liberty Bell.

The west is a PART of Frontier, but the Frontierland is not ENTIRELY West and never has been.

The time period it is a tribute to however has always been pretty consistent.

Splash is objectively more fitting in the wilderness of a wild frontier than the 1920s populated towns of LA.

As the history of the U.S. progressed, the "frontier" moved from East to West. And what was called "The West" also moved from the Appalachians to the Rockies as the population grew from East to West. "The West" was always the frontier of colonization as seen by "The Settled" parts of the U.S.... which continuously crept Westward.

At the time that Davy Crockett became a Representative for Tennessee in 1827, he was already 43 years old. His "wild frontier" days were from the very early 1800s, closer to the time of Liberty Square than the gold rush portrayed in BTMR. The big Mississippi Riverboats would only be appearing near the end of his life.

So, yes, younger Davy Crockett was indeed from "the Wild Frontier." But only when you consider the timeline he's in. So, if something is *not* from the West of the Mississippi (e.g., Tennessee), it indeed can be "The Frontier"... but only when you take into account its place in history.

When we point out that Splash is:

• Deep South
• Not anywhere near "The Frontier" in geography and chronology

You bring up Davy Crockett, pointing out that he's from "The East" and "The Wild Frontier." Which is not relevant at all to the Splash problem. It has its own unique geography and timeline that differs from Crockett.

The movie, SotS, took place during Reconstruction (1860s+). By that time "The Frontier" was way past the Mississippi and Georgia hadn't been "The Frontier" for several generations. If you want to make the point that the animated shorts from the movie aren't necessarily set in that time frame because they're timeless folk tales... then that actually further removes them from "The Frontier." What exactly in the "B'rer Tales" is "Frontier-ish" in the stories?

WDW's Frontierland has a lot of problems geographically and chronologically. Which has been pointed out over and over again in this thread. It is incredibly naive not to notice it.

PatF ain't going to break Frontierland cause it was already broke... badly.

This is actually an opportunity to fix Frontierland. I and others have Armchair Imagineered several scenarios in which that could happen. Which anyone with good Netiquette would know if they read the thread in which they are participating.

So, to visualize my armchair imagineering of reconfiguring the lands. Here's what it is now:

View attachment 652782

Yes, MK maps put Diamond Horseshoe in Liberty Square. And if it's suppose to be set in St. Louis, then it's not Wild West. St. Louis was pretty metropolitan by the early 1800s. Also Haunted Mansion is Gothic upstate NY, not Colonial. And there's a Riverboat in Colonial Philadelphia.

And Country Bears are deep south singing mid-20th century songs, not Wild West. And Splash Mountain is supposed to be Deep South as per the source material, but a veneer of Western decoration was fused onto it to make it fit.

So, what if the Rivers of America really was a tour of the rivers of America (like Jungle Cruise jumps around to the big jungle rivers of the world) -- which is what they do in Disneyland. Then you can match the attraction to the river as thus...

View attachment 652783

So, Haunted Mansion is there because the river next to it is the Hudson River. The Liberty Square port is on the Delaware at Philadelphia. Then we jump to St. Louis and head down the Mississippi. Diamond Horseshoe can lose its thinly veiled Wild West facade and be a more urbane crossroads of the mid-1800s, thematically supporting what is on the other side of the river: Tom Sawyer's Island.

Heading South on the M., we meet the Country Bears. Then when we get to the New Orleans delta, there's Tiana's Restaurant (formerly Pecos Bill) and Tiana's Bayou Adventure. Just beyond New Orleans Square is the Caribbean Gulf where there are Caribbean restaurants (Tortuga) and Pirates.

Continuing on the river, we jump to the Colorado River and see the BTMR. And then we jump to other big rivers of The West such as the Missouri, Yellowstone, Snake, and Columbia and see the Indian Nations along the way.

 

[celluloid]

Then why ain't they singing songs from the 1800s?

Because it is meant to be a self aware comedy show at a theme park as a love letter to the frontier spirit of country music, not a lesson in historical preservation and dramaturgy.
If you read the self aware mention of what you quoted from me. As you might say, anyone practicing good netiquite should know that.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Because it is meant to be a self aware comedy show at a theme park as a love letter to the frontier spirit of country western, not a lesson in historical preservation and dramaturgy.
If you read the self aware mention of what you quoted from me. As you might say, anyone practicing good netiquite should know that.

Being self-aware doesn't excuse what it is.

I suppose if the PatF was 'self-aware,' then, it would fit Frontierland?

 

[celluloid]

Being self-aware doesn't excuse what it is.

I suppose if the PatF was 'self-aware,' then, it would fit Frontierland?

In a theme park design sense, sometimes being self-aware makes it what it is!

Well now we are changing the subject, but if you really care to know:

Yes, it could, attractions do this all of the time on various levels as a storytelling element to various degrees. On Jungle Cruise and Haunted Mansion for example, you are on a tour where things of adventure and humor fit their tones.

In Country Bear Jamboree, the script literally mentions from the get-go that you are there to see a revue show dedicated in its atmosphere to the past and we get a cast of characters performing songs. This works for the tone of Country Bear Jamboree because it is a cast of characters that clearly are not polished, and we have to "bear" with them. It has a self-aware that fits the tone.

Tiana's attraction could easily do the same thing if the idea was to take you back into the heritage of Louisiana and go on an adventure of the Frontiers of Louisiana that made it what it is today. That is not very endearing and not something Disney is likely to do whimsically or put the effort into these days. They would rather do book reports without a segue or much avenue to build into the experience for animated IP attractions and recent rethemes.

Splash Mountain does this in the sense of the queue with the equipment and facilities of a time and place where it is evident of farming. mining and logging. There is a bit of hints of critters that grows throughout the way being anthropomorphic until the flume falls slipnfalls take you into that whimsy in 360 formats. You have to remember that even if you want to reference Uncle Remus, who is not in the ride but rather we know Brer Frog is a similar character role of storyteller, and the story of Brer Fox and adventures he has are not just current, but have already happened, hence why they are stories and why it "happened on one of them zip a dee doo dah days." We are taken back to and through those events. A time when critters and people (the romanticized frontier that tells this fable) were a little closer together.


On your thoughts on the music:
Wells Fargo Wagon and other Music Man songs fill the air in Main Street USA, The Ballad of Davy Crockett was written in the 50s. X Anticio wrote Yo Ho (A Pirates Life for Me) in the 60s. These are suspensions of disbelief do not break the theme. Just like the Disney theme parks are not touted as museums, they are not historical preservation of their musical playing or choices. They are inspired by the mythology of Americana and ideals, from the old country fairytales Americans told their children to the romanticized view of reality and dreams of tomorrow. Like the faux buildings fabricated recently based on centuries old structures, music can be produced in a different time to evoke or fabricate to entertain in a theme park setting.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Can we all just agree that Disney concurred all the way back in 1971 that anything with a cowboy hat or a "yeeyee" accent can take place in Frontierland??? And that is fine. Who cares.

Splash Mountain was and still is the best log flume attraction ever constructed. I will forever believe that they should just do a major refurbishement replacing all animatronics and effects with newly built ones... And I will forever believe that Tiana DOES deserve her own ride or stage show.... Somewhere else.

Change Liberty Square to New Orleans Square for all I care. Splash was and is fine. Pretending that it is crumbling apart is balogna. It was one of the few attractions that was actually in pretty good shape during my last trip lol

 

[Phicinfan]

An “extremist take”???? Multiple people on here have said how busted up this ride is( and many of them are Tiana haters), so I have no idea what point you are attempting to make.

Why don’t you just let the freaking new attraction get designed and let it open first and then you can decide whether to ride it or not. But saying that it belongs there less than Splash because Splash somehow mysteriously all of a sudden takes place in the “frontier” instead of the plantation deep Georgia south is disingenuous at best.

Sorry, that goes way against the mantra of many here. It is much more fair to throw stones LONG before it is actually completed, then go hide when it is launched and isn't an issue

 

[Phicinfan]

Busted up , broken down and outdated? Say what?

Sure a log will sink here and there. But outdated?

Ok, I get you really want to “pick a side” here. But it’s ok to admit that splash is and was freaking amazing while still being even more excited about PatF.

It’s literally one of the two most revolutionary rides in all of WDW- ToT being the other.

Transformed a log flume in the same manner ToT transformed a drop tower.

With due respect, Splash is an excellent ride. But it is not nearly what it was, the "few' logs that sink aren't the only issues. Many, not some, MANY of the animatronics are constantly in disrepair or in some cases gone all together. I get really loving Splash. But lets at least keep a realistic view on things

 

[andysol]

Splash Mountain was and still is the best log flume attraction ever constructed. I will forever believe that they should just do a major refurbishement replacing all animatronics and effects with newly built ones... And I will forever believe that Tiana DOES deserve her own ride or stage show.... Somewhere else.

I’m with you on all of this with the exception of tiana getting her own ride.

Would two great rides instead of one be ideal? Of course.

I agree SM is peak disney during the golden age and quite possibly the best ride ever made.
Between the songs, the “fake drops” going into the dark unknown, the length, the story, etc.

But PatF likely will remain the best flume ride in the world.
Will it surpass Splash? Of all the franchises, it does have the potential to. And it’s the ideal IP for that ride system unlike Frozen.

As we all know, it’s an extremely tall order.
But it is possible to elevate it, much like GotG in DL does for many, so I’m certainly willing to wait to judge.

With due respect, Splash is an excellent ride. But it is not nearly what it was, the "few' logs that sink aren't the only issues. Many, not some, MANY of the animatronics are constantly in disrepair or in some cases gone all together. I get really loving Splash. But lets at least keep a realistic view on things

I can name a dozen rides in MK alone more “outdated” than SM.
Calling it outdated is just picking sides and using hyperbole in some “battle” that shouldn’t even exist.
It’s silly.

 

[Phicinfan]

Can we all just agree that Disney concurred all the way back in 1971 that anything with a cowboy hat or a "yeeyee" accent can take place in Frontierland??? And that is fine. Who cares.

Yes, we should

Splash Mountain was and still is the best log flume attraction ever constructed. I will forever believe that they should just do a major refurbishement replacing all animatronics and effects with newly built ones... And I will forever believe that Tiana DOES deserve her own ride or stage show.... Somewhere else.

I totally agree SM is the best log flume ride I have ever ridden, and have seen. I also agree if this were a perfect world, you update Splash, and give Tiana another ride elsewhere or show as an add to the park. However, it has been decided that SotS must be removed by Disney. So if a change has to happen, I am willing to wait and see what Tiana offers.

Change Liberty Square to New Orleans Square for all I care. Splash was and is fine. Pretending that it is crumbling apart is balogna. It was one of the few attractions that was actually in pretty good shape during my last trip lol

This too isn't really correct. SM is down way too often, and many animatronics are down, out or missing. Crumbling to dust no, but being what it should be? Not even close

 

[Tha Realest]

A rickety SM is still better than 90% of what’s out there. Let’s not act like the current state of disrepair is akin to the difference between the original JII and the later iterations.

 

[WondersOfLife]

This too isn't really correct. SM is down way too often, and many animatronics are down, out or missing. Crumbling to dust no, but being what it should be? Not even close

It is way closer to what it should be than many other attractions on property...

Have you been on Imagination recently? Dinosaur? Everest? Little Mermaid?

For Splash being as old as it is, and on top of that, being surrounded by water all the time, it is in much better shape than these other AA-heavy attractions. Out of the 10 or so rides broken down on my last trip, Splash wasn't one of them. You know what WAS?

Slinky Dog Dash, Rockin' Roller Coaster, Finding Nemo the Musical, Little Mermaid, PeopleMover, Mission: Space, Guardians of the Galaxy, Ratatouille, Expedition Everest, and freaking It's a Small World of all rides. And this was just one day at each park.

...Sounds like Splash Mountain, when it ISN'T operating, isn't a result of it being old. Disney just has crap source for maintenance. So that is still no excuse to close it. Otherwise, Disney would have to close 20 other attractions on property in their current state, too. New and old.

 

[Phicinfan]

It is way closer to what it should be than many other attractions on property...

We can agree to disagree. My last trip Splash was down 2 of the days I was there.

Have you been on Imagination recently? Dinosaur? Everest? Little Mermaid?

Imagination yes, Dinosaur no, Everest no, but kids yes, Little Mermaid yes - of all those examples Dinosaur and Everest just got some updated needs, Imagination isn't a good choice as the ride itself is a mess. Mermaid, agree here with number of times animatronics are down or not working

For Splash being as old as it is, and on top of that, being surrounded by water all the time, it is in much better shape than these other AA-heavy attractions. Out of the 10 or so rides broken down on my last trip, Splash wasn't one of them. You know what WAS?

Again agree to disagree. Last I went 3 or 4 were missing.

Slinky Dog Dash, Rockin' Roller Coaster, Finding Nemo the Musical, Little Mermaid, PeopleMover, Mission: Space, Guardians of the Galaxy, Ratatouille, Expedition Everest, and freaking It's a Small World of all rides. And this was just one day at each park.

Last I was there Slinky, Rockin, Peoplemover, Mission:Space, Ratatouille and Everest and IASW were all fine and operating normally. Nemo hadn't been replaced yet so not a fair comparison in my mind

...Sounds like Splash Mountain, when it ISN'T operating, isn't a result of it being old. Disney just has crap source for maintenance. So that is still no excuse to close it. Otherwise, Disney would have to close 20 other attractions on property in their current state, too. New and old.

Yes, Disney has a lousy maintenance plan. No one says it doesn't. As for condition of Splash again agree to disagree. I can tell you the last three trips I made, Splash was down at least one day each trip. Not due to weather either. I would LOVE, an update of Splash and a new ride for Tiana, but that isn't what Disney is doing due to SotS and restaging Splash. So it is what it is

 

[andysol]

All of that may be well and true @Phicinfan


Name me a single Tomorrowland less “outdated” as Splash?
Speedway, monsters, buzz, CoP, PM, space? Nothing even close.
There’s a half dozen in fantasyland.
And arguable on pirates or jungle cruise.

It’s not even close to the most outdated thing in the park. And saying it is, is hyperbole.

What this discussion really shows is how disney maintenance has turned to garbage in the last 2 decades and how they’ve just rested on their laurels on their most popular park.

 

[ppete1975]

It is way closer to what it should be than many other attractions on property...

Have you been on Imagination recently? Dinosaur? Everest? Little Mermaid?

For Splash being as old as it is, and on top of that, being surrounded by water all the time, it is in much better shape than these other AA-heavy attractions. Out of the 10 or so rides broken down on my last trip, Splash wasn't one of them. You know what WAS?

Slinky Dog Dash, Rockin' Roller Coaster, Finding Nemo the Musical, Little Mermaid, PeopleMover, Mission: Space, Guardians of the Galaxy, Ratatouille, Expedition Everest, and freaking It's a Small World of all rides. And this was just one day at each park.

...Sounds like Splash Mountain, when it ISN'T operating, isn't a result of it being old. Disney just has crap source for maintenance. So that is still no excuse to close it. Otherwise, Disney would have to close 20 other attractions on property in their current state, too. New and old.

Id add haunted mansion, its track needs work and some maint wouldnt hurt

and no im not talking about the cobwebs that are supposed to be there