News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[GoneForGood]

I can understand the company has committed to re-theming Splash. I won't go over the obvious reasons stated here again, but Disneyland's is as easy as it will get. Perhaps the company will revisit a western river attraction and build a PATF attraction elsewhere. I don't know why they would be so obsessed with making sure Splash becomes PATF.

I think one of my top (maybe second...after an Idea I haven't shared yet) favorite Alternate retheme Ideas came from DSNY Newscast. He proposed WRE but using critters in place of humans. I thought that was an awesome idea.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

The last I heard was that DLR's re-do was fairly straightforward. The Splash part of Critter Country would be annexed to New Orleans Square, with no theme or chronological concerns. I think Disneyland's pretty easy.

Last fall, I'd heard WDI was still struggling with the chronology problem in WDW, since Frontierland has a definitive end to its timeline, which I think its roughly 1790-1895. That's at least ~25 years before the events in PATF, which is a faily large gap in both time and in the definition of the US "frontier".

The proposals I was aware of last fall included:

1. Build the PATF ride with Tiana and alter Frontierland to include 1920's New Orleans
2. Build the PATF "prequel" ride without Tiana but with other characters from the film
3. Let Tiana take over Pecos Bill's and make it Tiana's Palace

There are pretty clear issues with all three. There might be other alternatives by now.

WDI has shown with GOTG and now Batuu that existing themes, timelines, and canon aren't barriers to putting in any ride in any location. It's possible they take option #1. I think the reason why options 2 and 3 exist is that enough people in WDI saw the problems with #1, that they were looking for a compromise everyone could live with.

I mean, if option #1 is taken, it means Frontierland includes everything in US history from the Lewis & Clark expedition to the end of World War I, the formation of the League of Nations, and almost up to the Great Depression. Everything from canoes to airplane travel, to the earliest helicopters, is fair game. The first half of Tomorrowland's Carousel of Progress would fit into Frontierland's chronology.

I think WDI recognizes the issues with this, hence this is why we've not heard more about it.

If the next Disney update on PATF focuses only on Disneyland, that would be an indication that WDW's Frontierland timeline remains an issue within WDI.

I have kind of a hard time believing that this is any sort of holdup for PATF in WDW.

Disney's track record in the 21st Century is littered with examples of them saying "we want this to fit, so we'll just put it where we want, make minimal effort at justifying that change in the existing area, and just call it a day".

I'd be pleased to learn that WDI suddenly has such intense conviction that it's powerful enough to stall a poor thematic fit being pushed through from the top . . . but I'm not buying it for a nickel.

 

[SailorMercury]

I have kind of a hard time believing that this is any sort of holdup for PATF in WDW.

Disney's track record in the 21st Century is littered with examples of them saying "we want this to fit, so we'll just put it where we want, make minimal effort at justifying that change in the existing area, and just call it a day".

I'd be pleased to learn that WDI suddenly has such intense conviction that it's powerful enough to stall a poor thematic fit being pushed through from the top . . . but I'm not buying it for a nickel.

I don’t know. This one has big reason for justification because of what they’re removing. Sure they’re removing Splash because of what it’s associated with, but they still know how beloved it is. So it’s a lot more justification to be had than a simple “Guardians is at EPCOT because Star-Lord went as a kid and really liked Horizons.” Because when it comes to justifying the closure of Ellen’s compared to the closure of Splash Mountain, it’s night and day in the justification of theming.

 

[EagleScout610]

Nah, they're going to whip out the BIG guns for that... the Play! Pavilion!

Not just PLAY! But I've heard their plan to combat Epic also includes:
•Moana
•A fully fixed Yeti
•Tiana Mt.
•Free churros and turkey legs for everyone on property
•The public overthrowing of Bob Chapek

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Not just PLAY! But I've heard their plan to combat Epic also includes:
•Moana
•A fully fixed Yeti
•Tiana Mt.
•Free churros and turkey legs for everyone on property
•The public overthrowing of Bob Chapek

It’s both sad and comical that of the items listed the second one probably has by far the worst odds of ever happening, especially with Joe Rhode out of the picture. Lol.

 

[James Alucobond]

The last I heard was that DLR's re-do was fairly straightforward. The Splash part of Critter Country would be annexed to New Orleans Square, with no theme or chronological concerns. I think Disneyland's pretty easy.

Last fall, I'd heard WDI was still struggling with the chronology problem in WDW, since Frontierland has a definitive end to its timeline, which I think its roughly 1790-1895. That's at least ~25 years before the events in PATF, which is a faily large gap in both time and in the definition of the US "frontier".

The proposals I was aware of last fall included:

1. Build the PATF ride with Tiana and alter Frontierland to include 1920's New Orleans
2. Build the PATF "prequel" ride without Tiana but with other characters from the film
3. Let Tiana take over Pecos Bill's and make it Tiana's Palace

There are pretty clear issues with all three. There might be other alternatives by now.

WDI has shown with GOTG and now Batuu that existing themes, timelines, and canon aren't barriers to putting in any ride in any location. It's possible they take option #1. I think the reason why options 2 and 3 exist is that enough people in WDI saw the problems with #1, that they were looking for a compromise everyone could live with.

I mean, if option #1 is taken, it means Frontierland includes everything in US history from the Lewis & Clark expedition to the end of World War I, the formation of the League of Nations, and almost up to the Great Depression. Everything from canoes to airplane travel, to the earliest helicopters, is fair game. The first half of Tomorrowland's Carousel of Progress would fit into Frontierland's chronology.

I think WDI recognizes the issues with this, hence this is why we've not heard more about it.

If the next Disney update on PATF focuses only on Disneyland, that would be an indication that WDW's Frontierland timeline remains an issue within WDI.

It seems to me a much simpler solution would be to just have the queue be temporally transportive. There's nothing about the exterior of the updated ride shown thus far that ties it directly to the 20s. You could easily push it closer to the turn of the century (just prior to where the story starts with Eudora reading to Tiana and Charlotte) and then tell that story along the way as you lead up to the ride itself.

 

[Incomudro]

I'll do you one better. Splash is larger by at least a factor of two (maybe three) in terms of ride duration, physical length, number of show scenes, animatronics, etc. Any comparable downtime given the far more extensive amount of work and upgrades that need to be done would be a disservice to this attraction.

Not to belabor the point, but PATF is a delightful film and there are tremendous opportunities that flow from it. These characters deserve their own, standalone thing, and I worry it will always be in the shadow of a classic and beloved attraction.

Yeah, Splash is massive.
I know Maelstrom was loved by some - I liked it - but it never felt like a full blown attraction to me, it felt like a World Showcase ride in a country attraction to me which I viewed as a smaller way of doing things than a stand alone park attraction.
So, I didn't mourn the loss of it much.
But Splash is iconic, and yes - massive.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I don’t know. This one has big reason for justification because of what they’re removing. Sure they’re removing Splash because of what it’s associated with, but they still know how beloved it is. So it’s a lot more justification to be had than a simple “Guardians is at EPCOT because Star-Lord went as a kid and really liked Horizons.” Because when it comes to justifying the closure of Ellen’s compared to the closure of Splash Mountain, it’s night and day in the justification of theming.

Disney has closed popular rides for replacement before, and has just as much justification with this one as they have with others - they want to do it.

Disney has never made a habit of getting hung up on what the guest wants when it comes to making big decisions like this, and they've certainly never found themselves in the quandary of feeling like they can't do something because it'll trip up the thematic logic of the existing area.

Sometimes they massively retheme the area. Usually they minimally retheme the area. Sometimes they don't retheme the area at all.

For better or for worse, Disney is fully aware that the majority of guests have no awareness of the Frontierland timeline as it exists. They're not gonna let that stand in the way of doing what they want here. The fact of the matter is that Splash Mountain itself was already a major blow to the established place and time of Frontierland at WDW - as major as has ever been realized, at least - and almost nobody bats an eye. They won't suddenly get hung up on resolving an issue this very ride created 30 years ago that never proved meaningfully impactful on the guest experience.

The likelihood is high that they will just do what they want to the ride, share many of the elements with its sister in Disneyland, and if they think they can make money turning Pecos Bill into a Tiana Restaurant they'll do it without much conceptual thought to any existing chronology.

That's not exactly how I want them to handle this, but history speaks for itself.

 

[lentesta]

Timeline?

Doesn't WDI know that CBJ is singing songs from the mid-20th century? And that a Mississippi river boat is parked in a Colonial port? And that the Diamond Horseshoe is on their maps as belonging to Liberty Square?

I can squint my eyes (ears?) and go along with CBJ.

I think the "Rivers of America/Tom Sawyer Island" link to the Riverboat qualifies that.

I can see both sides of the DHSR too. It's incongruous, but not, you know, like an animal.

 

[Tha Realest]

It seems to me a much simpler solution would be to just have the queue be temporally transportive. There's nothing about the exterior of the updated ride shown thus far that ties it directly to the 20s. You could easily push it closer to the turn of the century (just prior to where the story starts with Eudora reading to Tiana and Charlotte) and then tell that story along the way as you lead up to the ride itself.

I love this idea. Set it in a tranquil area that feels like the bayou - a swamp, even. It could be so beautiful you could set up a New Orleans' themed indoor restaurant overlooking the queue and ride start. Then, through some unclear method, the guests are transported back in time to the proper time setting.

 

[ppete1975]

I really hope this is land only and world will be later... because my next and last trip to the world is 2023

 

[Incomudro]

Disney has closed popular rides for replacement before, and has just as much justification with this one as they have with others - they want to do it.

Disney has never made a habit of getting hung up on what the guest wants when it comes to making big decisions like this, and they've certainly never found themselves in the quandary of feeling like they can't do something because it'll trip up the thematic logic of the existing area.

Sometimes they massively retheme the area. Usually they minimally retheme the area. Sometimes they don't retheme the area at all.

For better or for worse, Disney is fully aware that the majority of guests have no awareness of the Frontierland timeline as it exists. They're not gonna let that stand in the way of doing what they want here. The fact of the matter is that Splash Mountain itself was already a major blow to the established place and time of Frontierland at WDW - as major as has ever been realized, at least - and almost nobody bats an eye. They won't suddenly get hung up on resolving an issue this very ride created 30 years ago that never proved meaningfully impactful on the guest experience.

The likelihood is high that they will just do what they want to the ride, share many of the elements with its sister in Disneyland, and if they think they can make money turning Pecos Bill into a Tiana Restaurant they'll do it without much conceptual thought to any existing chronology.

That's not exactly how I want them to handle this, but history speaks for itself.

I wish you were wrong, but as you have shown - the evidence is there.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I love this idea. Set it in a tranquil area that feels like the bayou - a swamp, even. It could be so beautiful you could set up a New Orleans' themed indoor restaurant overlooking the queue and ride start. Then, through some unclear method, the guests are transported back in time to the proper time setting.

I still stand by this sketch I did summer 2020, suggesting that the Splash queue and exit area beyond the Railroad Tracks be redressed as a mini New Orleans courtyard with a walk-up Beignet Window and Tiana's Palace sit-down restaurant built where the current restrooms are:

 

[crazy4disney]

Has anyone suggested a new CEO comes in and says enough is enough and cancels this overlay? maybe do it in Cali where is may make sense but not Florida?

 

[SailorMercury]

Has anyone suggested a new CEO comes in and says enough is enough and cancels this overlay? maybe do it in Cali where is may make sense but not Florida?

No matter what happens, no matter how much Disney Adults wanna go “La la la la I can’t hear you!”, and no matter how much support the current version of the attraction may have, it’s gonna happen. It’s too far gone from announcement and the work that has supposedly already been done is too much to just cancel it.

 

[DisneyfanMA]

For my own selfish reasons I hope this does not start this year. I travel with family of kids in Nov and this is a major ride I know they will love. Crossing fingers.

 

[SailorMercury]

For my own selfish reasons I hope this does not start this year. I travel with family of kids in Nov and this is a major ride I know they will love. Crossing fingers.

I personally don’t think it’ll open in 2024. I think that was Disney’s initial hopes, since i can’t imagine a VA has had much work with the attraction since work began, especially with the further delays put on Guardians and Tron. I think it’ll go down later this year during its annual refurbishment, and not open back up until the retheme is complete.

 

[Tha Realest]

I still stand by this sketch I did summer 2020, suggesting that the Splash queue and exit area beyond the Railroad Tracks be redressed as a mini New Orleans courtyard with a walk-up Beignet Window and Tiana's Palace sit-down restaurant built where the current restrooms are:

View attachment 643196

That is really well done, both as a standalone piece of art and as an executed concept. Thank you for sharing.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The last I heard was that DLR's re-do was fairly straightforward. The Splash part of Critter Country would be annexed to New Orleans Square, with no theme or chronological concerns. I think Disneyland's pretty easy.

Last fall, I'd heard WDI was still struggling with the chronology problem in WDW, since Frontierland has a definitive end to its timeline, which I think its roughly 1790-1895. That's at least ~25 years before the events in PATF, which is a faily large gap in both time and in the definition of the US "frontier".

The proposals I was aware of last fall included:

1. Build the PATF ride with Tiana and alter Frontierland to include 1920's New Orleans
2. Build the PATF "prequel" ride without Tiana but with other characters from the film
3. Let Tiana take over Pecos Bill's and make it Tiana's Palace

There are pretty clear issues with all three. There might be other alternatives by now.

WDI has shown with GOTG and now Batuu that existing themes, timelines, and canon aren't barriers to putting in any ride in any location. It's possible they take option #1. I think the reason why options 2 and 3 exist is that enough people in WDI saw the problems with #1, that they were looking for a compromise everyone could live with.

I mean, if option #1 is taken, it means Frontierland includes everything in US history from the Lewis & Clark expedition to the end of World War I, the formation of the League of Nations, and almost up to the Great Depression. Everything from canoes to airplane travel, to the earliest helicopters, is fair game. The first half of Tomorrowland's Carousel of Progress would fit into Frontierland's chronology.

I think WDI recognizes the issues with this, hence this is why we've not heard more about it.

If the next Disney update on PATF focuses only on Disneyland, that would be an indication that WDW's Frontierland timeline remains an issue within WDI.

Not that they asked me, but I feel like they could annex Splash/PatF into a new subland themed to New Orleans and Caribbean with a new restaurant in Pecos and Pirates (which in some ways feels a bit separate from rest of Adventureland .... Maybe build up that boardwalk walkway to me a more substantial path into the Big Thunder area

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Not just PLAY! But I've heard their plan to combat Epic also includes:
•Moana
•A fully fixed Yeti
•Tiana Mt.
•Free churros and turkey legs for everyone on property
•The public overthrowing of Bob Chapek

After the whole "churro stand" thing with VelociCoaster it would be fun if Disney promoted free churros as their counter