News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
Does anyone honestly think this kind of dialect would fly in anything made today?

People who want some kind of reboot of the characters...I have no idea what you think they would look and sound like.
But it wasn't made today.
And here we are today, getting rid of things tied to (tenuously and otherwise) things from the past.
If the 20,000 K ride were still around, should it be re-themed because of the sequence with the natives?
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
But it wasn't made today.
And here we are today, getting rid of things tied to (tenuously and otherwise) things from the past.
If the 20,000 K ride were still around, should it be re-themed because of the sequence with the natives?
you can't look at the past through the lens of today...Every county's history is fraught with moments that a hundred years later seem horrible... You cannot forget the past nor can you erase it.
I believe the intentions behind Song Of The South were good... To bring these African American stories to the center of a plot that revolves around a young boy dealing with separation and divorce... To remove the stories from a ride feels sad to me...because it erases the history and really the only representation of these tales out there. YES! it would be great if there could be a teaching moment attached to the attraction explaining the origins...To me, that would make the attraction richer...and assign credit for the tales to their actual origin.
Part of me feels like we do a great disservice to the material by washing it away rather than keeping the characters relevant with context.
That said, I know its demise is coming...Just hope the new attraction will be well done and exceed the style and whimsy of the current ride.
 

Stupido

Well-Known Member
you can't look at the past through the lens of today...
You absolutely can, and we kinda have to make it a point to. If we blindly excuse the past as the past, we remove any accountability and open the door for history to repeat itself. Sure, society changes and things were much different back then, but to write things off as "that's how it was back then, accept it" is a little ridiculous. Yes, the Disney Company has done so much for every single person who posts here. We all have had amazing experiences with this company, and we all care about it. That doesn't mean we can't be critical of what some believe to be the "Golden" years of the company, or be excited that the company is finally acknowledging some of the skeletons in its closest. I commend Disney for doing everything it can to distance itself from that type of storytelling, and for going through the effort of making it abundantly clear the company they want to be. Especially when it's so clear that they could have kept things exactly the same, and the majority of the world would have been just fine with them keeping things the way it's always been.
 

Artemicon

Member
You absolutely can, and we kinda have to make it a point to. If we blindly excuse the past as the past, we remove any accountability and open the door for history to repeat itself.
This is a falsity. There is a reason the quote is those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. Completely eliminating the history allows future generations to not know about the struggles that happened.

The key here is not to look at it only through the past, but in combination of then and now. From where we've come to where we are today. There is much to gain about looking at history critically in how things were in the past and how we as a culture have changed. Eliminating that would eventually result in future generations forgetting why we are the way we are.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
This is a falsity. There is a reason the quote is those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. Completely eliminating the history allows future generations to not know about the struggles that happened.

The key here is not to look at it only through the past, but in combination of then and now. From where we've come to where we are today. There is much to gain about looking at history critically in how things were in the past and how we as a culture have changed. Eliminating that would eventually result in future generations forgetting why we are the way we are.
Changing a Disney ride is not eliminating history. Disney has been replacing and updating its attractions since the parks first opened—the world has survived just fine.

I can respect (not to say agree with) many arguments against the Splash Mountain retheme, but the claim that people’s knowledge of history or African American folklore is somehow dependent on a Disney log flume is silly and insulting.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Changing a Disney ride is not eliminating history. Disney has been replacing and updating its attractions since the parks first opened. I can respect (not to say agree with) many arguments against the Splash Mountain retheme, but the claim that the people’s knowledge of history or African American folklore is somehow dependent on a Disney log flume is silly and insulting.

Is it?

I mean, the only reason anyone knows who Hercules is or that Greek myths exist is because of the Disney movie Hercules, right (ignoring the fact that the name is actually wrong for the Greek version...)?
 

Artemicon

Member
Changing a Disney ride is not eliminating history. Disney has been replacing and updating its attractions since the parks first opened—the world has survived just fine.

I can respect (not to say agree with) many arguments against the Splash Mountain retheme, but the claim that people’s knowledge of history or African American folklore is somehow dependent on a Disney log flume is silly and insulting.
You don't have to like it, but song of the south is a part of history. The ride takes small nods from a problematic film and turns it into a ride that very loosely relates to it. I don't think the ride scenes are problematic due to the lack of blatant racist stereotypes, even if it does take references from a film that is.

Changing the ride for the sake of changing the ride is a fine discussion to have, but when we start calling it racist, I don't agree. Nor if the ride was indeed racist would I object to it being removed.

Finally, I didn't insinuate that the ride was a representation of history, only disagreed that we should change history because we don't like the way we were back then.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
You don't have to like it, but song of the south is a part of history. The ride takes small nods from a problematic film and turns it into a ride that very loosely relates to it. I don't think the ride scenes are problematic due to the lack of blatant racist stereotypes, even if it does take references from a film that is.

Changing the ride for the sake of changing the ride is a fine discussion to have, but when we start calling it racist, I don't agree. Nor if the ride was indeed racist would I object to it being removed.

Finally, I didn't insinuate that the ride was a representation of history, only disagreed that we should change history because we don't like the way we were back then.
We are constantly changing what the past has bequeathed us—that’s how progress happens. History isn’t lost in the process; it’s recorded in books and other depositories of information.
 

Phicinfan

Well-Known Member
We are constantly changing what the past has bequeathed us—that’s how progress happens. History isn’t lost in the process; it’s recorded in books and other depositories of information.
I am sorry, but that is not totally true. there have been many, many cases of history being revised, post changes like this. History is always usually in the eye of the victor, not the loser.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I am sorry, but that is not totally true. there have been many, many cases of history being revised, post changes like this. History is always usually in the eye of the victor, not the loser.
I’m referring to the normal changes that happen in the course of life (we’ve all experienced them), not diktats imposed by a conquering regime. Please let’s keep things in perspective here.
 
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Kiff

Member
All this talk of the source material being problematic is certainly fair but we shouldn't forget that Disney realized it was problematic when Splash was originally designed. The imagineers and management at the time understood the problem and used the ride as a way to take these great characters, an academy award winning song, and great source STORIES, to create an amazing attraction. An attraction that could rise above it's source material and in many ways REPLACE it. Eisner was quoted as saying that these concerns don't "negate the strong music, or characters" that Splash Mountain is able to deliver. Focusing on the source material ignores that Disney ALREADY went through the motions with Splash Mountain to rise above its source and allow these characters and music to exist forever in theme park form.... or so I thought.
 

EagleScout610

Always causin' some kind of commotion downstream
Premium Member
FWIW this the website of the artist supposedly doing the Splash art.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
All this talk of the source material being problematic is certainly fair but we shouldn't forget that Disney realized it was problematic when Splash was originally designed. The imagineers and management at the time understood the problem and used the ride as a way to take these great characters, an academy award winning song, and great source STORIES, to create an amazing attraction. An attraction that could rise above it's source material and in many ways REPLACE it. Eisner was quoted as saying that these concerns don't "negate the strong music, or characters" that Splash Mountain is able to deliver. Focusing on the source material ignores that Disney ALREADY went through the motions with Splash Mountain to rise above its source and allow these characters and music to exist forever in theme park form.... or so I thought.
You refer to “the great source STORIES” even as you say that “[f]ocusing on the source material” is wrongheaded. That seems contradictory to me.

The arguments in favour of the current theme are wildly inconsistent. The characters are just cute critters, yet they’re central to the survival of African American folklore. The ride’s association with the problematic film on which it is based is negligible, yet retheming it is going to cause us to forget history and repeat the mistakes of the past. People are trying to have it multiple ways at the same time.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
You refer to “the great source STORIES” even as you say that “[f]ocusing on the source material” is wrongheaded. That seems contradictory to me.

The arguments in favour of the current theme are wildly inconsistent. The characters are just cute critters, yet they’re central to the survival of African American folklore. The ride’s association with the problematic film on which it is based is negligible, yet retheming it is going to cause us to forget history and repeat the mistakes of the past. People are trying to have it multiple ways at the same time.

That is to be expected when the company who now tries to say the reason it is closing is because it is problematic rather than it being to sell that princess merch.
 

Kiff

Member
You refer to “the great source STORIES” even as you say that “[f]ocusing on the source material” is wrongheaded. That seems contradictory to me.

The arguments in favour of the current theme are wildly inconsistent. The characters are just cute critters, yet they’re central to the survival of African American folklore. The ride’s association with the problematic film on which it is based is negligible, yet retheming it is going to cause us to forget history and repeat the mistakes of the past. People are trying to have it multiple ways at the same time.
That's a fair statement. With my post I was frustrated by the focus on the movie in recent posts. I acknowledge its problems but I believe the attraction extracted postive aspects from the source and created a new entity. It is Splash Mountain, and is disconnected from the film. In my mind the necessary steps to use these characters and stories in a new and respectful manner already occurred 30 years ago. It allowed disney to keep a wonderful piece of their history alive for new generations instead of keeping ALL aspects of the material buried forever. This is managment taking an extremely "safe" appeoach to the situation. In my opinion it's lazy and unnecessary.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
That's a fair statement. With my post I was frustrated by the focus on the movie in recent posts. I acknowledge its problems but I believe the attraction extracted postive aspects from the source and created a new entity. It is Splash Mountain, and is disconnected from the film. In my mind the necessary steps to use these characters and stories in a new and respectful manner already occurred 30 years ago. It allowed disney to keep a wonderful piece of their history alive for new generations instead of keeping ALL aspects of the material buried forever. This is managment taking an extremely "safe" appeoach to the situation. In my opinion it's lazy and unnecessary.
As someone who really enjoys the current theme and is personally sad to see it go, I get where you’re coming from—I too used to think Disney had done enough to disassociate the ride from its source. But perspectives can shift, and I’ve heard and read things this past year that have made me realise that there are people—Disney fans of colour, not the much-maligned “woke mob”—for whom the change is significant and welcome. That should mean something, or at least be taken into account and engaged with as a legitimate point of view.

I disagree quite a bit with your last two sentences. Leaving the ride unchanged would have been by far the safer (and lazier) approach on Disney’s part. The backlash was all too predictable.
 

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