News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[The Aracuan Bird]

You’re misunderstanding me. Of course Disney didn’t invent the material, but the reason the stories and characters are in a Disney theme park at all is that they have appeared in a Disney film. It is no surprise, then, that the association with that film will always overshadow the secondary connection to the original stories. The same applies to any number of literature-derived attractions at the Magic Kingdom. When one rides Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid, one is going to tie it to the 1989 animated film rather than to Hans Christian Andersen’s tale.

Okay. So you recognize the issue. The association with the characters at large will be overshadowed by the problems with the film, so long as that is the dominant adaptation of the stories.

So what do you propose that they do? Nothing? Let it die? Avoid their mistake? Yeah sure, they could do that, and they probably will. But is it morally correct to ruin the reputation of culture that you stole, and then do nothing to fix it?

You seem to only be arguing that there is a problem with how these stories were presented, something most of us already know. If you don’t want to propose a solution, then move along. If you only care about this as far as the ride and the existing film go, there’s really not much to add to the table.

 

[LittleBuford]

Okay. So you recognize the issue. The association with the characters at large will be overshadowed by the problems with the film, so long as that is the dominant adaptation of the stories.

You are still misunderstanding me. My point applies to any Disney attraction whose theme or characters derive, by way of a Disney film, from traditional folklore or literature. For better or worse, such an attraction will always remain associated first and foremost with the film and not the original source material.

So what do you propose that they do? Nothing? Let it die? Avoid their mistake? Yeah sure, they could do that, and they probably will. But is it morally correct to ruin the reputation of culture that you stole, and then do nothing to fix it?

As far as the attraction goes, there's nothing to "fix". Splash Mountain exists in its current from because of Song of the South, and nothing can be done to remedy that causal link. One can either accept it without bringing it up further, which used to be the case until 2020, or replace the theme altogether, which is what they're opting to do now.

You seem to only be arguing that there is a problem with how these stories were presented, something most of us already know. If you don’t want to propose a solution, then move along. If you only care about this as far as the ride and the existing film go, there’s really not much to add to the table.

I'm really not interested in discussing the mistakes made in the original film or how Disney might "solve" these. That's a debate for a different thread.

 

[The Aracuan Bird]

You are still misunderstanding me. My point applies to any Disney attraction whose theme or characters derive, by way of a Disney film, from traditional folklore or literature. For better or worse, such an attraction will always remain associated first and foremost with the film and not the original source material.


As far as the attraction goes, there's nothing to "fix". Splash Mountain exists in its current from because of Song of the South, and nothing can be done to remedy that causal link. One can either accept it without bringing it up further, which used to be the case until 2020, or replace the theme altogether, which is what they're opting to do now.


I'm really not interested in discussing the mistakes made in the original film or how Disney might "solve" these. That's a debate for a different thread.

I think you’re the one misunderstanding things. My commentary was on whether or not Disney is doing the morally correct thing, which many in this fanbase seem to think that they are.

The ride as is will always be associated with the film, and unfortunately, the source material will always be linked with the film and Joel’s “Uncle Remus Tales”...so long as nothing is actively done about it.

There’s really nothing to debate here. I’m just pointing out something that few seem to care about. That’s why we’re here, because of a lack of care. You might even agree with me, or you don’t. I’m not sure why you’re dragging out this point that the ride is linked to Disney’s screwup when everyone knows that. It’s how they move forward that’s important. What they did in the past can’t be changed. What they do in the future can.

 

[LittleBuford]

My commentary was on whether or not Disney is doing the morally correct thing, which many in this fanbase seem to think that they are.

Morality doesn’t come into it for me. We’re clearly approaching this issue with extremely different perspectives.

I would thank you to stop telling me not to contribute. If you don’t want to read what I have to say, then simply put me on ignore.

 

[jt04]

Morality doesn’t come into it for me. We’re clearly approaching this issue with extremely different perspectives.

I would thank you to stop telling me not to contribute. If you don’t want to read what I have to say, then simply put me on ignore.

If you could decide the fate of the WDW version of Splash what would you choose? Because I have lost your viewpoint in the back and forth discussion. So just what you would do with that specific attraction as an attraction. If you care to respond. Seriously interested. I can't hear too many viewpoints.

 

[LittleBuford]

If you could decide the fate of the WDW version of Splash what would you choose? Because I have lost your viewpoint in the back and forth discussion. So just what you would do with that specific attraction as an attraction. If you care to respond. Seriously interested. I can't hear too many viewpoints.

For myself, personally, I love the current theme and was quite sad when the overhaul was announced. To be clear, I recognise⁠—and have long recognised⁠—that Song of the South is a deeply problematic film (and yes, I have seen it; as a child in the UK, I had a copy on video), but I've always been able to enjoy the ride on its own merits and appreciate that the Imagineers had made a good-faith effort to omit the more troublesome elements of the movie.

Then 2020 happened, and I read and heard some really insightful thoughts from a number of Disney fans of colour. I don't recall any of them demonising Splash Mountain, but they did express some discomfort with the theme and welcomed Disney's move towards greater inclusion and representation. I took these views seriously and concluded that they mattered more than my personal dismay at losing a theme that I happen to love. It's for the same reason that I find it unfortunate that people are playing the "But Splash Mountain is an important testament to African-American folklore" card. Is this something that African Americans themselves are saying? Does it reflect anything that was ever claimed for the ride before 2020? One shouldn't have to pretend that the theme has any educational merit in order to defend it.

All of which is to say that I think, of all the realistic options, the announced PatF retheme is the one I would choose. In an alternative universe, however, where history, context, and others' feelings didn't matter, I would stick with what we currently have.

What are your thoughts?

 

[jt04]

For myself, personally, I love the current theme and was quite sad when the overhaul was announced. To be clear, I recognise⁠—and have long recognised⁠—that Song of the South is a deeply problematic film (and yes, I have seen it; as a child in the UK, I had a copy on video), but I've always been able to enjoy the ride on its own merits and appreciate that the Imagineers had made a good-faith effort to omit the more troublesome elements of the movie.

Then 2020 happened, and I read and heard some really insightful thoughts from a number of Disney fans of colour. I don't recall any of them demonising Splash Mountain, but they did express some discomfort with the theme and welcomed Disney's move towards greater inclusion and representation. I took these views seriously and concluded that they mattered more than my personal dismay at losing a theme that I happen to love. It's for the same reason that I find it unfortunate that people are playing the "But Splash Mountain is an important testament to African-American folklore" card. Is this something that African Americans themselves are saying? Does it reflect anything that was ever claimed for the ride before 2020? One shouldn't have to pretend that the theme has any educational merit in order to defend it.

All of which is to say that I think, of all the realistic options, the announced PatF retheme is the one I would choose. In an alternative universe, however, where history, context, and others' feelings didn't matter, I would stick with what we currently have.

What are your thoughts?

Well written. Appreciate your thoughts. The ride itself is one of the most well crafted Disney has ever produced. And since it has been around so long generations have become attached to it. Lots of sentimentality and it would be a shame if the overlay caused more resentment than is justified. So I try to see both sides. And I don't think it is the content that might offend many as much as there has never seemed to be a good faith effort to be more inclusive with Disney attractions. This would be a great way to keep the ride system with also content that fits. I believe it would improve the experience.

It seems most people have a healthy understanding of the era that SotS was produced and now. But I understand the point of view that a PatF reimagining is just a band-aid on what is a troubling 'time capsule' that should have been better thought through in the first place. There were many other IPs available in the 1980s that could have been used.

So, IMO, if they are going to do the overlay it needs to be more than that. Which is why I keep mentioning NoS or something like it. Done right, it can be something everyone appreciates.

Every journey begins with a first step and this would be a great first step for TWDC as it pertains to the parks. Just my opinion.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Tokyo’s will never happen in a million years

Can’t Disney just pull the licensing?

 

[SailorMercury]

Can’t Disney just pull the licensing?

I’m not entirely sure how it works but I don’t think so. Doing a PatF attraction in Tokyo would be trivial anyways because it’s not a very popular movie there.

Disney wanted to share assets and have OLC share costs for the reimagining for both Tokyo and Florida, to which they declined. From what I’ve heard, they might’ve given Florida’s a budget, but I’m still not 100% certain. As long as Disneyland’s gets booted I’m okay cuz that version desperately needs this

 

[EagleScout610]

I’m not entirely sure how it works but I don’t think so. Doing a PatF attraction in Tokyo would be trivial anyways because it’s not a very popular movie there.

Disney wanted to share assets and have OLC share costs for the reimagining for both Tokyo and Florida, to which they declined. From what I’ve heard, they might’ve given Florida’s a budget, but I’m still not 100% certain. As long as Disneyland’s gets booted I’m okay cuz that version desperately needs this

Yes. TDL has refused to pay for Orlando's retheme

 

[FantasiaMickey2000]

First African American male, Hattie McDonald for her supporting role in Gone With the Wind was the first to win an Oscar.

You are correct. I missed male in my comment. My point still stands though.

 

[Speedy71]

So we are replacing a African folklore with a European one? Got ya.

 

[EagleScout610]

So we are replacing *a non Princess with troubled origins* with a *Princess* Got ya.

Fixed

 

[SailorMercury]

Fixed

Pretty much yeah. Disney prefers princesses any day of the week. They’ll remove Princess rides for Princess M&G’s if they have to.

Oh wait

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

So do we have any rumors or ideas as to what the ride will have regarding scenes and AA's?

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

So do we have any rumors or ideas as to what the ride will have regarding scenes and AA's?

Just guesses at the moment. The likely scenario: Screens as set dressing, Projected "shadows", a few redressed SotS/America Sings figures (< a dozen) and 2-3 bigger AA figures with a finale utilizing the Showboat in Mardi Gras decor.

 

[jt04]

Just guesses at the moment. The likely scenario: Screens as set dressing, Projected "shadows", a few redressed SotS/America Sings figures (< a dozen) and 2-3 bigger AA figures with a finale utilizing the Showboat in Mardi Gras decor.

...better music, better exterior theming (mama odie's boat), a coherent storyline...

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

...better music, better exterior theming (mama odie's boat), a coherent storyline...

Better music? Debatable. "How do you do?" Slaps! The Odie boat? New Fantasyland's Beast Castle vibes. Storyline? Hopefully.

 

[jt04]

Better music? Debatable. "How do you do?" Slaps! The Odie boat? New Fantasyland's Beast Castle vibes. Storyline? Hopefully.

My hope is that the creative team gets to use every tool in the toolbox. This should be budgeted as the E ticket it is. I don't really care about the story as much as the visuals and music and there are plenty of each to be optimistic. If they get the boat right it will look especially amazing in the evening I think.

 

[UNCgolf]

...better music, better exterior theming (mama odie's boat), a coherent storyline...

Zip a Dee Do Dah is one of the best songs Disney has in their entire catalog, so saying better music is a stretch. I don't think any of the Princess and the Frog songs are classics (not that they're bad -- I like all of them) but none of the other SotS songs are all that great either, except maybe How Do You Do.

I also wouldn't hold my breath for a coherent storyline. They haven't really done that much in recent builds. While both Star Wars rides have one, Frozen Ever After, Mickey and Minnie, and Navi River Journey are all lacking, and their early description of the ride sounds a lot like Frozen Ever After.

The exterior theming is up in the air. Sure, that concept art looked impressive, but I don't expect they'll actually build something that looks like that. Could be pleasantly surprised, though.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not opposed to the retheme at all. I completely understand why they're doing it. I just don't have a lot of faith that they're going to create something that's even remotely comparable to what currently exists.