_caleb
Well-Known Member
They’d definitely need to convert to electric cars for this to work
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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure
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Made this for a Discord chat. Anything that needs to be fixed?
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Just for fun, here's the Disneyland Alice/Toad/Pan building plot laid over the Indy Speedway - to scale, of course.
The whole complex is highlighted Pink for clarity - Pan's share of the building is outlined Red, Toad's outlined Orange, and Alice's outlined Purple (worth noting that Alice is 2 stories - at points it travels over top of Mr. Toad, and at others over its own ride path):
I also outlined WDW's Pooh in Blue, which USED to be the Mr. Toad building. You can see how much larger it is than DL's Toad building - but then, WDW's Toad had two separate ride tracks where DL's only has one.
The bolded areas are the rides respective entrances. Alice's facade faces away from the Pan and Toad side of the building - in theory, if you gave that space over to something Tomorrowland-y, you *could* have the Alice side face the Teacups and still transition from it before reaching the entrance to the other attraction.
Now, it's also worth mentioning that these DL rides are tiiiiny . . . Built in the mid-to-late 50's, Disney basically *can't* build anything this size anymore and get away with it, if only for the lack of access for emergencies (not to mention the sheer creative power it takes to do so much in so little space - Alice wasn't built on top of Toad because they just FELT like it). The layouts of these DL dark rides are genius, but can't just be replicated without serious modifications because of new regulations).
That said, the Speedyway plot clearly offers enough space to expand everything outward in a way that would be suitable. If they really wanted, there's basically no *real* reason you couldn't build an Alice ride in the style of the DL attraction that meets today's codes and uses more space, and have it adjoin to another building of whatever size and shape that features its own Tomorrowland attraction. You could do that and still have plenty of space left on the Speedway plot for something else.
Not that I think Disney's looking to do ANY of this, but it's fun to think about.
EDITED To Add: Fun Fact, both DL's Snow White and Pinocchio Dark Rides (plus part of their Village Haus) could fit on the plot of Mickey's Philharmagic. And you could fit ALL FIVE of DL's Fantasyland Dark Rides on the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train Plot.
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Bocabear
Well-Known Member
It is fun to think about! So many possibilities... An Alice ride and a new double tracked longer experience Peter Pan and Neverland area replacing the Circus Splash Pad ... Retheme Barnstormer into a Tinkerbelle's Flight coaster.... I would really love an Alice ride to make a bit more sense out of the Teacups... sort of "finish the thought"...
Donaldfan1934
Well-Known Member
Sounds good to me.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
Which they should do anyway! What is "Tomorrowland" about 1970s Go-karts spewing fossil fuel emissions? And what happened to Hong Kong's Electric Fleet??
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
So, basically, they could demolish the Tomorrowland Speedway, move Mickey's Philharmagic to Hollywood Studios, gut Princess Fairytale Hall, maybe find some space in Storybook Circus... you'd have some room for three or four more dark rides, which I personally feel the Magic Kingdom's Fantasyland needs.
While it'd still suck to lose Disneyland's Splash Mountain, at least we'd still have the Magic Kingdom's and Tokyo's. And as I've said, if they DID retheme Disneyland's but kept the Magic Kingdom's, they could save some of the America Sings animatronics that don't already have clones in the Magic Kingdom's, ship them to Florida, and have them installed in the Magic Kingdom's Splash Mountain, if for no other reason than to save them from being trashed a la the Universe of Energy and Great Movie Ride animatronics.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I never realized Alice went over Toad in some areas, that’s really cool. I agree current imagineers wouldn’t be capable of anything like that.... but as you said there’s plenty of space for a large show building that could house 2 Disney dark rides.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Yep, those layouts are WILD - Alice even has a *teeny, tiny* bit of showspace that juts out over Peter Pan. Those early-day Imagineers did not have an inch of space to waste and they made sure they didn't.
Here's a layout with transparency for the 2 stories of Alice to see where it goes over itself and Toad (and the Restrooms around the corner) - a little confusing, but Alice's space is highlighted Pink, Toad's Orange, and Pan's Red:
Additionally, all of this fits in a space smaller than the plot for the Little Mermaid Dark Ride.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I’ll be studying that diagram for a while... thanks so much.
Don’t even get me started on comparing these classics to little mermaid!!!!!!! Lol.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Oh I feel you. Deeply.
Part of the reason things like this no longer happen is that they no longer need to - blessing of size, and all that. But it makes you wonder sometimes how many cool projects could grow out of using space creatively like this.
The original Mermaid Dark Ride concept made use of 2 stories in a very creative way - the whole building was essentially split horizontally by a "waterline", so you'd pass through the same scene twice in the ride but each time you'd either see what was happening below the surface or above it. Hard to explain, but the Simulated Ridethrough they released back in the day shows it well:
I don't think that version of a Mermaid ride would have been perfect either, but it's better than what we got for sure.
I *still* secretly wish we'd gotten a new Snow White dark ride tucked underneath the Mine Train, with certain points where the two rides could see into each other but still offer different takes on the story. The Dark Ride could focus on Snow and the Witch, the Mine Train would focus on the Dwarfs as it does, but there would still be a nice little Snow White Ride available for anyone who wasn't up for a Coaster.
But, you know. They didn't ask me.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
the idea of two attractions intermingling is fascinating...and in the spirit of the old imagineering crew...That would have been wonderful! Imagine an Alice ride where the Teacups ride is actually indoors and becomes part of the Dark Ride's show scenes... So many things like that could be done...and would feel more like experiences than "drive by book reports"... Sad thing about Mermaid is they already built it once and knew it had a disappointing ending....so rather than fix it, they just cloned it and did it again...
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
It's blatantly obvious in the Little Mermaid ride that they blew most of the budget on the facade and animatronics. They might as well just have a giant neon sign reading "THIS IS WHERE WE RAN OUT OF MONEY" as part of the scene with the cardboard cutout Ursula.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Mermaid's budget was reportedly $100 million, and that's the California version which has a very simplistic queue/facade by comparison (no elaborate rockwork). As I understand it, the fancy facade at WDW was not a part of the ride's budget either (you can also tell that it was designed by a different and much more talented group of artists). $100 million should have been enough to blow everyone away. The ride's flaws are not only related to WDI's budgeting bloat, but a clear lack of artistic talent and design. A talented artist can do a LOT with relatively little money. And besides Ursula, the animatronics aren't even anything special movement wise.
For comparison, Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey opened the year before Mermaid (DCA) and is cited to have cost $131 million.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
The amount of Rockwork within showscenes is a culprit too - part of why it was so expensive on both coasts. The way they do it these days costs a real buck, and there's a ton of it inside the ride.
If they'd committed to making it a Blacklight ride from the beginning instead of choosing weirdly to make it a White Light ride they could have gotten away with suggesting more rather than having to carve it all. Some strategic carving would have been sufficient. Of course much of the ride ended up being converted to Blacklight anyway, making at least some of that rockwork a waste.
As the DL Fantasyland Dark Rides prove, they could have done a lot more with a lot less. I personally think there's something to strategic use of cutouts within them - if your source material is a 2D, Hand-drawn animated film, blacklight cutouts suit that aesthetic. Part of the charm is making you feel like you've stepped into the hand-painted spaces of the movie. Balance that out with some nice, dimensional figures and you can completely evoke the animated film without breaking the bank.
Though, to bring this thread somewhat back around, Splash Mountain does a great job of literalizing its animated environments with hand-carved rockwork, so there's more than one way to do it. But there's the problem - the Exterior of Mermaid suggests to the guest that the ride will be taking that approach, but it fizzles out by the time you get to "Under the Sea" in favor of some sort of confused hybrid of expensive rockwork literality and some simple, shiny, plastic Window-Display theatrics. It feels like the Backgrounds got more attention than the Subjects.
Until the final 3rd of the ride, when all of it starts to just falter.
Splash is at least consistent in its visual language throughout.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
The issue with Mermaid is that they got stuck with a restricted plot (DCA) that was to be cloned and managed to waste considerable space on a mediocre “Under the Sea” room, to the diminishment of the rest of the attraction.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
Y'know, The Princess and the Frog would actually lend itself well to a blacklight-heavy dark ride. Imagine how cool a "Friends on the Other Side" scene with Dr. Facilier and the tiki masks menacing guests would look.
See, I'm not against the film getting a ride. I just don't want it replacing Splash Mountain.
See, I'm not against the film getting a ride. I just don't want it replacing Splash Mountain.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
If they leave it alone at Disneyland I will buy an annual pass. I will give them money to keep it.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Is it true that Tokyo DL is opposed to retheming their Splash to PatF? I thought they were opposed to paying for a retheme.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
what's the difference. the point is they don't wana do it.
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