Chi84
Premium Member
This topic is dead. No effective communication is taking place. Hasn’t been for some time. Honestly, I’m not sure what else can possibly be said.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
- Status
WEDway Inc & Company LLC
Well-Known Member
Is that like an official thing, or just something your expecting?
Never underestimate the ability of a Disney fanatic to find something else to say about something!
There is no doubt in my mind that modern America sees the world through a different lens. Americans are almost implicitly trained to look for negative connotations and ways in which we can whistle blow or sink the ship if it's not aligned with our personal points of view. We have proven this over and over again and micro analyze everything under a very narrow minded microscope. We choose sides.
WDW has the right to maintain Splash Mountain as-is at the risk of alienating its customer base and failing to address inclusion. The same risk exists with a PatF retheme but fails to IMO properly represent Tiana in the parks as a princess. I love the attraction and had no idea the ride was associated with Song of the South, however, I don't want my enjoyment/ignorance to be at the expense of others' enjoyment of the parks. I recognize there is a very fine line because America is hypersensitive right now. Flipside is you are removing a classic attraction that many folks have enjoyed without realizing the source material offended so many people. They will feel cheated, confused and angry and it's justified from their perspective. Ultimately, this is a mess created by WDW so they absolutely need to make sure they don't screw up the solution by failing to properly address two separate issues and avoid alienating/dividing customers. Inclusion will be a big whiff if not properly addressed (inclusion isn't achieved through alienation/division).
More importantly, does anyone have any updates on the retheme itself, i.e. timing, budget, conceptual details, story etc.? We can debate the merits of why the attraction should or should not be rethemed all day. At the end of the day it's moot because none of us are decision makers at WDW but we generally represent the overall issue(s) WDW will be dealing with through this retheme as currently planned. Get your popcorn ready.
WDW has the right to maintain Splash Mountain as-is at the risk of alienating its customer base and failing to address inclusion. The same risk exists with a PatF retheme but fails to IMO properly represent Tiana in the parks as a princess. I love the attraction and had no idea the ride was associated with Song of the South, however, I don't want my enjoyment/ignorance to be at the expense of others' enjoyment of the parks. I recognize there is a very fine line because America is hypersensitive right now. Flipside is you are removing a classic attraction that many folks have enjoyed without realizing the source material offended so many people. They will feel cheated, confused and angry and it's justified from their perspective. Ultimately, this is a mess created by WDW so they absolutely need to make sure they don't screw up the solution by failing to properly address two separate issues and avoid alienating/dividing customers. Inclusion will be a big whiff if not properly addressed (inclusion isn't achieved through alienation/division).
More importantly, does anyone have any updates on the retheme itself, i.e. timing, budget, conceptual details, story etc.? We can debate the merits of why the attraction should or should not be rethemed all day. At the end of the day it's moot because none of us are decision makers at WDW but we generally represent the overall issue(s) WDW will be dealing with through this retheme as currently planned. Get your popcorn ready.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
They could, hypothetically, cancel the retheme, make an announcement pointing out that the ride includes characters who originated from African-American folklore and that, while Song of the South has racist elements, none of said racist elements are actually included in the ride, and promise to design another attraction to bring Tiana into the parks. Or, hypothetically, they could not straight-up announce the retheme is cancelled but instead start designing a new, non-retheme Princess and the Frog attraction for the parks and then let people put the pieces together that the retheme is cancelled. But what do I know?
Chi84
Premium Member
Disney doesn't want to do that - no upside for them in doing that.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
What about not having a bunch of Splash Mountain fans ticked off at them? Or not looking like cowards who bowed to people on the internet because they were afraid of a Disney+ boycott? Or not having to spend a million dollars during a time where money is tight to retheme a highly-themed ride just to look good to the "woke mob" or whatever and maybe sell some Tiana dolls?
Awareness is always a good thing. So is acknowledgment of past mistakes and having an open conversation with everyone to ensure the best approach is used going forward.
The best answer to address inclusion and representation would be to modify the issues people have with Splash (general awareness may be sufficient or possibly swapping characters) while maintaining the general theme and elements that made this attraction a fan favorite. Followed up with creating a new Tiana attraction in Fantasyland. It’s a band aid to retheme Splash to PATF and it’s also the easy and worst possible solution IMO. Lose-lose situation.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
You're turning into a caricature.
Chi84
Premium Member
It's human nature to want others to agree with our way of thinking and to attribute disagreement to misinformation or pressure. But that's not always the case. Disney's objective is to entertain, not to cater to people who don't want change and certainly not to educate African Americans on their folklore.
From what I've read Disney had changes to Splash Mountain in the works before the petition and obviously before COVID. They probably want the re-theme because they believe it will have more appeal to current and future generations.
As far as Splash being associated with racism, if it wasn't before it sure is now after all this yammering about it. These threads and counter-petitions likely did more to ensure a re-theme than to prevent it. Disney doesn't want an attraction associated with racism.
The Great Gonzo
Well-Known Member
I saw Save Splash Mountain t-shirts at that big orange on Irlo Bronson. I was thinking of buying one, but I don't really trust t-shirts from outside vendors.
Last edited:
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
I'm amazed that so many people believe Disney's claim that they were working on this before the petition. Unless the petitions and backlash against Splash were orchestrated by Disney (Frederick Chambers, the guy that started this mess in the first place, IS a Disneyland employee), I call bullcrap. Remember, they initially brushed off The Princess and the Frog as a flop and ignored it for a decade.
Then how come the Headhunters in the Jungle Cruise haven't been removed yet? Or the Indians in Peter Pan's Flight? This is only happening because Song of the South is an easy target.
And yet the ride still gets long lines at Disney World and was beloved by pretty much everyone until Frederick Chambers posted his idea for a retheme. Just sayin'.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Cool conspiracy theory, bro.
This won’t be true no matter how many times you post it.
There is a list of problematic attractions that will all eventually be addressed. You’re right that Song of the South was an easy target, which made Splash Mountain a high priority on the list of things to change. Disney‘s fault for basing a ride on characters from a famously racially insensitive film, thinking they could distance it enough.
It’s not that the ride wasn’t popular, or that there was a wave of complaints. Disney does not care about petitions for or against the change, and Disney doesn’t make decisions to pander to the “woke mob” bogeyman. They think the Brer characters might make some guests feel unwelcome, so they‘re changing it.
And you’re not ”just sayin’,” you’ve been harping on this on every thread since the announcement. You’re free to express your continued sadness and disappointment, but this thread was supposed to be dedicated to discussion about the attraction, not debate about the retheme.
There are several threads where you can complain about the change, mourn the loss, express your appreciation, celebrate the deep African roots of Brer Rabbit, or debate what is/isn’t racist. This isn’t one of those threads.
Haymarket2008
Well-Known Member
I can confirm that PATF has been a plan for at least a year or two prior to the announcement. But it definitely was released a LOT earlier than initially planned. Still was gonna happen though.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
So the petitions etc. were orchestrated by Disney? And what made them suddenly change their minds on The Princess and the Frog after initially brushing it off as a flop?
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Princess and the Frog was not “brushed off as a flop.”
Honestly I wouldn't be shocked if it was revealed that PatF was considered for Splash back when PatF was released in theaters.
Chi84
Premium Member
The petitions don’t matter. If they did, from what I’ve heard, the petition against changing Splash got tons more signatures. The petitions don’t matter because this is a change Disney wants. Just as they wanted to distance themselves from the movie that gave rise to the characters. There were no petitions to lock SotS in a vault. Like it or not, this is something Disney wants to do.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
And I'm supposed to assume it's just a coincidence that Disney thought up the exact same idea as Frederick Chambers and his fans did? Not to mention there's the whole "they initially brushed off The Princess and the Frog as a flop" thing. If they suddenly consider it successful enough for a ride now, how come they still gave up on hand-drawn animation?
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Ideas and rumors of rethemes are constantly floating around the internet. Chambers has said that his armchair imagineering was inspired by a loved one, who was convinced the Brer theme is problematic. You can be sure Disney has at least some proof that the idea had been circulating WDI independent of Chambers’s idea and didn’t just rip him off–otherwise, they’d be open to a law suit.
Please stop saying “Disney brushed off The Princess and the Frog as a flop,“ because it’s simply not true. The film was a success at the box office, and a runaway success with Disney’s Black audience, who had never had representation among the princesses until Tiana.
There was some hope (on the part of Disney Animation) that The Princess and the Frog would rekindle audience’s love of hand-drawn animation. Lassiter wanted the film to usher in a renaissance of traditional animation (for PatF they used pen and paper and then digitized into ToonBoom Harmony animation software). But the film wasn’t a Frozen-level cultural phenomenon, and Disney determined that the success of PatF was not due to the animation style, but rather to the story, characters, and charm.
The success of Princess and the Frog led Disney to greenlight Winnie the Pooh, which was Disney’s last hand-drawn feature (2011), with the division being closed permanently in 2013. Maybe you should blame Pooh for the demise of hand-drawn.
The reason computer generated animation is preferred to hand-drawn these days is that it is faster and cheaper to produce and results in reusable assets. Digital animation is like virtual puppeteering- character models, textures, sets, lighting, and physics can all be reused (in sequels, commercials, video games, toy modeling, Christmas specials for Disney+, etc.). This makes investment in computer-generated animation much more appealing to big studios.
- Status