News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[_caleb]

But what if your just wrong? I mean that argument is very weak....think of all the evil people who thought they were right.

Not sure it makes sense to compare Disney's value of inclusion and diversity with doing something evil, but I think I understand your point. We can all be wrong at times- even about things we believe to be right. But Disney making bold (and controversial) changes in order to align better with their stated goals of inclusivity and diversity falls into the leadership category for me.

What I don't understand is those anti-changers who are arguing "Disney should not pursue inclusion and diversity." To me, the only rational room for disagreement is about the specific changes Disney is making in pursuit of their stated values.

Also, those who are dismissing this as Disney pandering to the "woke mob" are indicating to me that they're not the sort of people who are self-aware, considerate of others, or empathetic to those with different perspectives. It's as if these folks can't imagine a company doing something at their own risk/expense in order to include others.

 

[_caleb]

@_caleb, you’re no longer just a hypocrite, but also potentially evil.

Gotta love this place.

Obviously they know me well!

 

[matt9112]

I’ve already acknowledged this. It’s the ride’s associations that are the issue in some people’s eyes, not the ride itself.

So why cant people seem to seperate item A from item B? Theres this trend in general to attach things that feel like there similar of justify this view or that view.

 

[_caleb]

So why cant people seem to seperate item A from item B? Theres this trend in general to attach things that feel like there similar of justify this view or that view.

If "A" is the ride, and "B" is the film, people can't separate them because they are linked. The characters, storyline, and songs come from the film. It's not just in people's imaginations that these two things are connected. And Disney has obviously lost confidence in their ability to sufficiently distance the ride from the film.

But associations do pose a difficult challenge. Those who are against the changes, for example, seem to have a hard time separating "A" (Disney's changes to the parks to be more inclusive and diverse) from "B" (sociopathic pandering to a small but vocal minority on social media). Or maybe B is "an illogical woke agenda?" Or "a conspiracy to erase history?" I can't keep up.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

So why cant people seem to seperate item A from item B? Theres this trend in general to attach things that feel like there similar of justify this view or that view.

I honestly think it’s people who’ve never ridden or been to the parks complaining about the ride. There’s a sensitive community for this kind of environment now fortunately & unfortunately. You even have cases where people are offended on the behalf of a certain group they're not associated with only to find that certain group wasn’t offended at all. I really don’t believe many who actually visit Disney are the ones complaining about this ride or having a problem disassociating.

It could also just be Disney trying to overcompensate again. They’ve been pc’ing the hell out of Pirates over the decades and for what, honestly.

 

[LittleBuford]

They’ve been pc’ing the hell out of Pirates over the decades and for what, honestly.

Numerous posters here welcomed the changes to Pirates of the Caribbean when they were being discussed, so clearly it’s not all for naught.

 

[matt9112]

If "A" is the ride, and "B" is the film, people can't separate them because they are linked. The characters, storyline, and songs come from the film. It's not just in people's imaginations that these two things are connected. And Disney has obviously lost confidence in their ability to sufficiently distance the ride from the film.

But associations do pose a difficult challenge. Those who are against the changes, for example, seem to have a hard time separating "A" (Disney's changes to the parks to be more inclusive and diverse) from "B" (sociopathic pandering to a small but vocal minority on social media). Or maybe B is "an illogical woke agenda?" Or "a conspiracy to erase history?" I can't keep up.

Im

Numerous posters here welcomed the changes to Pirates of the Caribbean when they were being discussed, so clearly it’s not all for naught.

That's fine everyone has an opinion....but being offended isnt a crime and it shouldn't be treated as such....does everyone like the same food or colors? Of course not. These days though its mere existence sets people off even if it has no bearing or relevance to there own life in any meaningful way. Granted you can argue forever about what is or isnt meaningful to this or that person but thats silly. Its ok for your feelings to be hurt....

 

[LittleBuford]

That's fine everyone has an opinion....but being offended isnt a crime and it shouldn't be treated as such....does everyone like the same food or colors? Of course not. These days though its mere existence sets people off even if it has no bearing or relevance to there own life in any meaningful way. Granted you can argue forever about what is or isnt meaningful to this or that person but thats silly. Its ok for your feelings to be hurt....

To echo @_caleb, you’re assuming that Disney is reacting to (or preempting) pressure from the overly sensitive “woke mob” with these changes rather than making strategic decisions for itself. I find it highly unlikely that a few internet petitions are capable of forcing Disney’s hand. A lot of the anger expressed in this thread has been directed at an imagined and maligned group of so-called SJWs, but it’s Disney and Disney alone that is responsible for the retheme.

 

[Haymarket2008]

I think people are really losing sight of the fact that SM is based on problematic source material, and therefore the easiest way to remove that source material is a re-theme.

Over the course of the past few months, I've witnessed the immense amount of sensationalism surrounding this situation, and any plans to re-theme any other attractions most likely don't exist, and will never exist. Of course both Pan and Dumbo have problematic elements in their films, but those are two short scenes that can easily be ignored. Unfortunately, with SotS, the entire film is considered to be problematic in the general public's eyes. Heck, according to Jim Hill, members of WDI back in the late 80s when Splash was being developed were against the SotS theme, but it went ahead anyways. Assuming this was the case and Jim Hill is telling the truth, then the SotS theme has always been a slippery slope. It's just now, that people are realizing it. Sure, the attraction works on it's own ignoring SotS, but this re-theme was, imo, still bound to happen at some point. It just so happened to be this past summer.

Any talk of moving on from any original Walt era attractions in favor for another re-theme is ridiculous, because any problematic stereotypes within certain original attractions can simply be altered through the
re-recording of dialogue, removal of vignettes, etc... I'm sure the only other attraction we'll see heavily altered may be HoP, because nowadays it's basically a melting pot for political controversy. Anyways, I want to end this by making it clear that I'm not taking any side when it comes to the SM re-theme, and I'm very much mutual with it. I understand both perspectives, and completely respect both sides for their reasons.

This. I’m right there with you on the mutuality. Very well said.

 

[larryz]

Not sure it makes sense to compare Disney's value of inclusion and diversity with doing something evil, but I think I understand your point. We can all be wrong at times- even about things we believe to be right. But Disney making bold (and controversial) changes in order to align better with their stated goals of inclusivity and diversity falls into the leadership category for me.

What I don't understand is those anti-changers who are arguing "Disney should not pursue inclusion and diversity." To me, the only rational room for disagreement is about the specific changes Disney is making in pursuit of their stated values.

Also, those who are dismissing this as Disney pandering to the "woke mob" are indicating to me that they're not the sort of people who are self-aware, considerate of others, or empathetic to those with different perspectives. It's as if these folks can't imagine a company doing something at their own risk/expense in order to include others.

Disney is already the most diverse, inclusive company on the planet. They pioneered diversity and inclusivity. (see what I did there?)

To suggest that one of their rides isn't "inclusive" when there are absolutely no barriers to any paying guest riding it (short of a disability that precludes transferring to a ride vehicle or health limitations) doesn't bear scrutiny.

Inclusivity and diversity doesn't mean you're not going to offend someone. Even diverse, inclusive people offend other people sometimes, such as in your assertion that people who don't agree with you aren't self-aware, considerate or empathetic.

 

[_caleb]

Disney is already the most diverse, inclusive company on the planet. They pioneered diversity and inclusivity. (see what I did there?)

To suggest that one of their rides isn't "inclusive" when there are absolutely no barriers to any paying guest riding it (short of a disability that precludes transferring to a ride vehicle or health limitations) doesn't bear scrutiny.

Inclusivity and diversity doesn't mean you're not going to offend someone. Even diverse, inclusive people offend other people sometimes, such as in your assertion that people who don't agree with you aren't self-aware, considerate or empathetic.

Seems like you and Disney are operating under different definitions of the word "inclusive." You say that "there are absolutely no barriers to any paying guest riding it." I suppose that's true. But do you honestly think this is what Disney is concerned about? Making it physically possible for any paying human to sit in the log while it moves through the show building?

In this case, inclusion is more about the storyline, the history, the characterizations, and the connections to the film. Regardless of how fans or guests feel about it, Disney sees the ride as something that it doesn't want to stand behind any longer.

I agree that someone will always find a way to take offense at nearly anything Disney does. At this point, Disney seems to have come to grips with that and have identified who they're willing to offend and who they're willing to change for.

Just to be clear: It's not those who disagree with me that are showing themselves to be less than self-aware, considerate, or empathetic. Several posters here are adamantly against the changes but remain thoughtful and considerate in their expression of disagreement. It's those who are dismissive (of the whole notion that anyone–let alone Disney–would ever take stock of their brand and make changes in order to make those who have previously been excluded feel more included) that I find to be lacking in empathy.

 

[412]

Friendly reminder:

 

[matt9112]

To echo @_caleb, you’re assuming that Disney is reacting to (or preempting) pressure from the overly sensitive “woke mob” with these changes rather than making strategic decisions for itself. I find it highly unlikely that a few internet petitions are capable of forcing Disney’s hand. A lot of the anger expressed in this thread has been directed at an imagined and maligned group of so-called SJWs, but it’s Disney and Disney alone that is responsible for the retheme.

Disney notoriously bends over backwards for good PR....not saying your wrong just saying the amount of pressure to elect a response is less than i think you think.

 

[LittleBuford]

Disney notoriously bends over backwards for good PR....not saying your wrong just saying the amount of pressure to elect a response is less than i think you think.

Courting good PR (which is a strategic choice on Disney's own part) is not the same as bending to pressure. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

[EagleScout610]

Friendly reminder:View attachment 517829

It's mainly "Will it/ Won't it happen" discussing at this point with some arguing tossed in

 

[EagleScout610]

With the announcement of a Tiana series, I wonder if that'll take the pressure off Splash to retheme since "More Tiana/Inclusion" is one of the main arguments for pro rethemers.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

With the announcement of a Tiana series, I wonder if that'll take the pressure off Splash to retheme since "More Tiana/Inclusion" is one of the main arguments for pro rethemers.

If anything, it's the opposite. It allows Disney to backdoor pilot the attraction storyline and ride the coattails of the series' success as a means for additional marketing fodder (hype machine) and to show they are committed to the makeover. TBH, had a feeling this was going to happen. You better believe they'll use the series as a springboard to launch the reinvented attraction.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

If anything, it's the opposite. It allows Disney to backdoor pilot the attraction storyline and ride the coattails of the series' success as a means for additional marketing fodder (hype machine) and to show they are committed to the makeover. TBH, had a feeling this was going to happen. You better believe they'll use the series as a springboard to launch the reinvented attraction.

Follow up: In theory they could utilize a similar strategy on Disney+ to put Song of the South back into the public consciousness by creating a Brer characters animated series, showcase the original film with intro commentary and do a making of documentary specifically addresses "inclusivity" diversity as well as the harm of racial stereotypes. Regardless, Disney will need to address the later before it gets out of hand or paints them in negative light. (There are already a handful of peoples who think Walt was a racist... but that's another discussion) It would behoove Disney to put all this out there vs their current MO of sweeping any "potential unmentionable" under the rug.

Would we even be discussing this had Disney just released Song of the South to a newer audience instead of pretending it didn't exist? I honestly don't know. Whoops... OT, let's get back on track. Splash Mountain retheme. I think had Disney released SotS with commentary on Disney+ or created an entirely new Brer Adventures series on Disney+ we wouldn't be having retheme discussions.

 

[_caleb]

Follow up: In theory they could utilize a similar strategy on Disney+ to put Song of the South back into the public consciousness by creating a Brer characters animated series, showcase the original film with intro commentary and do a making of documentary specifically addresses "inclusivity" diversity as well as the harm of racial stereotypes. Regardless, Disney will need to address the later before it gets out of hand or paints them in negative light. (There are already a handful of peoples who think Walt was a racist... but that's another discussion) It would behoove Disney to put all this out there vs their current MO of sweeping any "potential unmentionable" under the rug.

Would we even be discussing this had Disney just released Song of the South to a newer audience instead of pretending it didn't exist? I honestly don't know. Whoops... OT, let's get back on track. Splash Mountain retheme. I think had Disney released SotS with commentary on Disney+ or created an entirely new Brer Adventures series on Disney+ we wouldn't be having retheme discussions.

I think in that case we’d be discussing how racially insensitive the film is, what a poor decision it was to produce it in the first place, how badly they botched their second chance by not managing the Disney+ re-release well, and why Disney would ever think it possible to distance the animated characters from the film enough to base an e-Ticket attraction on them.

So pretty much the same discussion, but with the Splash fans a bit happier.

 

[SamusAranX]

I think in that case we’d be discussion how racially insensitive the film is, what a poor decision it was to produce it in the first place, how badly they botched their second chance by not managing the Disney+ re-release well, and why Disney would ever think it possible to distance the animated characters from the film enough to base an e-Ticket attraction on them.

So pretty much the same discussion, but with the Splash fans a bit happier.

Except that exact scenario [almost] already has been played out recently, and it didn't go the way you're saying Sots/SM did....