News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[UNCgolf]

Sorry, @UNCgolf, PatF was a financial flop... in the theatrical window.

Movie accounting, as a general rule of thumb:

1. Film budget is usually 50% more than as is stated because the known budget doesn't include advertising and administrative costs of the studio.​

2. Box Office take is only 50% than what is advertised because the studio shares the BO with the theaters.​

So, PatF's budget was $105M, so, with advertising, was really $157M. The film's worldwide BO was $267, so, Disney got $134M. That's a loss of $23M.

But... not a total flop. The film has a life after the theatrical run: PPV, Premium Cable, DVD, Cable, Broadcast, Streaming. Each window brings in more money. Then there's merchandise. Then there's synergy with The Disney Princesses(tm) and Disney Parks. Tiana becomes much beloved by Disney fans, especially girls of color. She's a popular M&G. She gets her own dessert party on the river boat. She's featured in the castle stage show and HEA. Her restaurant starts showing up on Disney cruise lines and resorts. Facilier is a staple for whenever the Disney villains appear, even hosting Club Evil and the post-Halloween MK after hours stage show. And soon, a ride.

PatF more than made up for the theatrical deficit and was a financial win in the end.

I know about movie accounting, but I originally read the worldwide box office was $298m, which probably would have turned a profit. I've read that the 50% markup really only applies to blockbuster films with huge advertising budgets, which likely wasn't the case for PatF. The budget is definitely higher than the $105m listed, but for films like it, it may only be a 20-30% increase rather than a 50% one. With that said, if the box office was $267m (what I just looked at said $269m, so close enough), then they probably broke even at best even with the reduced budget during the theatrical release window.

Not that it matters, because as you said, they've definitely made far more than that in the years since release. It's not remotely comparable to the films released in the previous years that I mentioned earlier, most of which have essentially disappeared off the face of the earth.

 

[Donald Duck 25]

Making a 5th key was, IMO just virtue-signaling.

We're currently living in a world of "overcorrectiveness". Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. I'm fine celebrating Princess and the Frog for what it is (a beautifully animated feature) and what's it's done for people of color but not at the behest of what I would consider the destruction of a classic attraction. But that's for a different debate. Or is it?

Wokeness (using derogatory term for lack of a better word) works in moderation and where appropriate. Too much of what I'm seeing is over-correction. Splash Mountain to Tiana Mountain is an over-correction.

Princess and the Frog HAD IT BEEN MORE SUCCESSFUL would have likely been it's own attraction. Even Tangled, which had similar box office "success" at least spun off into a tv series, fancy restroom and cruise show. PatF for being so beloved by Disney is being treated more like a stop gap solution or band-aid to fix any perceived boo-boos in Splash Mountain.

Frankly, I feel like the trajectory of this discussion has no relevancy to this thread anyway. The success/failure of the movie has no bearing on this overlay. It's just not a factor.

I think the easiest way to solve this problem is not to re theme splash mountain but to remake song of the south in a way everyone can enjoy. I mean Disney would remake a fart right now so why not.

 

[Surferboy567]

I think the easiest way to solve this problem is not to re theme splash mountain but to remake song of the south in a way everyone can enjoy. I mean Disney would remake a fart right now so why not.

That is probably the worst thing they could do right now...could you imagine the backlash.

Even if it was just animated with the Bre’r characters. You think Splash Mountain that isn’t racist in the slightest had a big reaction this would be crazy.

Not saying I don’t support it but in this day in age, reaction is super important.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ֊ᗩζᗩᗰ]

That is probably the worst thing they could do right now...could you imagine the backlash.

Even if it was just animated with the Bre’r characters. You think Splash Mountain that isn’t racist in the slightest had a big reaction this would be crazy.

Not saying I don’t support it but in this day in age, reaction is super important.

The problem is Disney is still burying the issue instead of addressing it. It's a misdirect. Here! Look at this shiny new overlay. It's got Tiana in it! Instead they should be addressing the actual connections between SotS and the current Splash Mountain. Wouldn't a release of the SotS movie with edits, new footage and historical commentary before and after the movie be the better solution? Get it out the vault with an open dialogue for improvement. Same for Splash. If it has flaws, fix them. It would address the REAL problem.

But then I guess we wouldn't get that PatF overlay.

 

[Brer Oswald]

That is probably the worst thing they could do right now...could you imagine the backlash.

Even if it was just animated with the Bre’r characters. You think Splash Mountain that isn’t racist in the slightest had a big reaction this would be crazy.

Not saying I don’t support it but in this day in age, reaction is super important.

Can someone tell me the issue with Splash Mountain without referring to something in SotS that didn’t make the conversion to the ride? I suppose this isn’t the thread for it.

I’ll say this. The problem with Splash Mountain is that nobody knows where the stories actually come from. It’s so bad that even the hardcore Disney fans on forums like these don’t know and don’t care about the historical context or significance. People normally look to the movies for stuff like this, but what do they honestly have to look at?

Disney has stolen those characters from the people they belonged to, damned them to an eternal perception of something that they’re not. And Mr. Iger has made damned sure that they’ll never see the light of day.

They’ve had 70 years to “do the right thing”. That is why I am upset. And if you don’t understand it, or can’t grasp it, I honestly can’t even blame you. It’s just the way the narrative has been controlled.

Peace.

 

[Surferboy567]

The problem is Disney is still burying the issue instead of addressing it. It's a misdirect. Here! Look at this shiny new overlay. It's got Tiana in it! Instead they should be addressing the actual connections between SotS and the current Splash Mountain. Wouldn't a release of the SotS movie with edits, new footage and historical commentary before and after the movie be the better solution? It would address the REAL problem. But then I guess we wouldn't get that PatF overlay.

I fully support SoTS to be released! I don’t think it’s that great of a film (with the exception of the Bre’r characters). Besides one scene I see it as harmless at best though.

The backlash it would surely receive though wouldn’t be great PR though.

I don’t agree with the purging of Zip

 

[_caleb]

Making a 5th key was, IMO just virtue-signaling.

We're currently living in a world of "overcorrectiveness". Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. I'm fine celebrating Princess and the Frog for what it is (a beautifully animated feature) and what's it's done for people of color but not at the behest of what I would consider the destruction of a classic attraction. But that's for a different debate. Or is it?

Wokeness (using derogatory term for lack of a better word) works in moderation and where appropriate. Too much of what I'm seeing is over-correction. Splash Mountain to Tiana Mountain is an over-correction.

Princess and the Frog HAD IT BEEN MORE SUCCESSFUL would have likely been it's own attraction. Even Tangled, which had similar box office "success" at least spun off into a tv series, fancy restroom and cruise show. PatF for being so beloved by Disney is being treated more like a stop gap solution or band-aid to fix any perceived boo-boos in Splash Mountain.

Frankly, I feel like the trajectory of this discussion has no relevancy to this thread anyway. The success/failure of the movie has no bearing on this overlay. It's just not a factor.

Thanks for engaging on this. I think they key part of this is whether these changes are "too much," as you put it, just right, or not enough. I think good, honest, thoughtful people (like you, @Magicart87, and you, @Brer Oswald) can have different perspectives on this and may disagree. But like you said, probably not the thread for this discussion.

 

[Bocabear]

The problem is Disney is still burying the issue instead of addressing it. It's a misdirect. Here! Look at this shiny new overlay. It's got Tiana in it! Then address the actual connections between SotS and the current Splash Mountain. Wouldn't a release of the SotS movie with edits, new footage and historical commentary before and after the movie be the better solution? It would address the REAL problem.

That is a very interesting idea...
If you watch the actual movie, it is not as bad as people make it out to be... It is a tale set in the reconstruction era...
Maybe if it was rewritten to take place in Rural Georgia during the great depression it might work...
Not sure what you could do, but the current political climate of the country is going to make anything difficult...and by "political climate" i am not referring to governmental politics, but social.

 

[Surferboy567]

Can someone tell me the issue with Splash Mountain without referring to something in SotS that didn’t make the conversion to the ride? I suppose this isn’t the thread for it.

I’ll say this. The problem with Splash Mountain is that nobody knows where the stories actually come from. It’s so bad that even the hardcore Disney fans on forums like these don’t know and don’t care about the historical context or significance. People normally look to the movies for stuff like this, but what do they honestly have to look at?

Disney has stolen those characters from the people they belonged to, damned them to an eternal perception of something that they’re not. And Mr. Iger has made damned sure that they’ll never see the light of day.

They’ve had 70 years to “do the right thing”. That is why I am upset. And if you don’t understand it, or can’t grasp it, I honestly can’t even blame you. It’s just the way the narrative has been controlled.

Peace.

Above

 

[Riverrafter21]

Let's say you were honored for your professional achievements in a very public way. And then a bunch of people (who don't know you and likely don't realize that they've enjoyed the products you've created) chime in with comments about the way you look. How does that make you feel? What's the purpose of those comments? What are the effects?

If it was a funny joke I'd laugh.

 

[Chi84]

The problem is Disney is still burying the issue instead of addressing it. It's a misdirect. Here! Look at this shiny new overlay. It's got Tiana in it! Instead they should be addressing the actual connections between SotS and the current Splash Mountain. Wouldn't a release of the SotS movie with edits, new footage and historical commentary before and after the movie be the better solution? It would address the REAL problem. But then I guess we wouldn't get that PatF overlay.

I doubt Disney thinks of that as their REAL problem. Their real problem is having outdated characters based on a movie almost no one has seen and which some associate with racism as opposed to an updated theme based on a current movie that most people consider inclusive and diverse. They can solve that problem by re-themeing Splash in the way they intend to. Why on earth would they release SotS with edits and commentary?

I saw PatF and thought it was charming, with fun characters. Disney has a lot to work with, and they usually do a pretty good job in my opinion, so I'm hopeful that the re-themed ride will be refreshing and fun. All the elements that we love will still be there as part of the ride structure.

 

[kingdead]

PatF wasn't the biggest hit, but nobody's seen Song of the South for what, 30 years now? Legit not seen it, because it's buried in a vault somewhere and you have to search out a bootleg to watch it and the people who do that usually are doing it to gawk at "Disney's most racist film!" It's not something today's children will have seen, because it's not something their parents would have seen, either. Maybe the grandparents, but Song wasn't a wildly popular movie even back then. Most people just knew "Zip-a-Dee Doo Dah" and not the actual movie, like they would with Cinderella and Bambi and Snow White.

And yet people still ride Splash Mountain... because flume rides are fun. You could probably reskin the ride with the Hall of Presidents and still get riders. Not as many, of course, but the ride itself is still enjoyable, no matter the content.

Tbh, the biggest danger for Disney on this one is if they try and redo the ride on the super cheap, because that opens them up to more accusations of racism--"you could spend all that money on Cinderella's castle, but Tiana got a video on a flat screen tv?"

 

[_caleb]

If it was a funny joke I'd laugh.

Come on, this is what bullies say. You can do better.

 

[Brer Panther]

I have absolutely no idea what's going on with this retheme. One minute I hear the Magic Kingdom's Splash Mountain is going to be rethemed to something else because Tokyo didn't want a Princess and the Frog overlay of THEIRS, the next I hear that the retheme of the Magic Kingdom's Splash Mountain has been cancelled outright, the next I hear it's still on and they're halting construction on the Tron and Guardians of the Galaxy rides so they'll have the funds to do it... what the heck is going on?

 

[_caleb]

I have absolutely no idea what's going on with this retheme. One minute I hear the Magic Kingdom's Splash Mountain is going to be rethemed to something else because Tokyo didn't want a Princess and the Frog overlay of THEIRS, the next I hear that the retheme of the Magic Kingdom's Splash Mountain has been cancelled outright, the next I hear it's still on and they're halting construction on the Tron and Guardians of the Galaxy rides so they'll have the funds to do it... what the heck is going on?

It's almost like Disney has some sort of agenda...

 

[Surferboy567]

next I hear it's still on and they're halting construction on the Tron and Guardians of the Galaxy rides so they'll have the funds to do it... what the heck is going on?

Woah, if this last scenario plays out that is crazy.

 

[Riverrafter21]

Come on, this is what bullies say. You can do better.

Is it? I thought bullies didn't have a sense of humor.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I have absolutely no idea what's going on with this retheme. One minute I hear the Magic Kingdom's Splash Mountain is going to be rethemed to something else because Tokyo didn't want a Princess and the Frog overlay of THEIRS, the next I hear that the retheme of the Magic Kingdom's Splash Mountain has been cancelled outright, the next I hear it's still on and they're halting construction on the Tron and Guardians of the Galaxy rides so they'll have the funds to do it... what the heck is going on?

The last given information (to my knowledge) was that Tron and Guardians would be finished by early 2022, and then Splash would start.

The insiders mentioned the possibility of a different retheme in Florida and Tokyo.

Anything else is fan speculation.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ֊ᗩζᗩᗰ]

I have absolutely no idea what's going on with this retheme.

Disney doesn't either at the moment. It's all fluid thanks to 'Rona. And OLC if there's truth to that. I suspect there is.
I think we're all in agreement that, with 99.9% certainty Disneyland's Splash will eventually be changed. If only to save face. MK's Splash who knows?! Small edits (preferable) or a complete gut and replace (shortsighted and costly) but whatever. LOL

 

[FiestaFunKid]

Zip-a-dee-doo-dah is all time top 5, maybe top 3 timeless classic Disney song....featured in Disney specials and albums for decades after the film was out of date. Current little kids know and enjoy it.

I find the removal of this irreplaceable Academy Award winning song from the park soundtrack the most offensive part. It has a positive message and Disney should have the guts to stand behind their great art/artists.

As much as I like NOLA Jazz, nothing in Princes and the Frog even comes close.