Chi84
Premium Member
Yes, in a forward-looking way in order to celebrate diversity. I’ll go out on a limb and say Disney’s research would show no interest whatsoever in a remake of SotS.
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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Oh, I agree. But if Disney really is looking to change in order to make the parks more inclusive (which does seem to include a tacit admission that the parks haven't always been as inclusive as they could be), remaking some of the insensitive films (with diversity in creative leadership and cast) could be a solid strategy, don't you think?
NelsonRD
Well-Known Member
Erasing history is not progress.
Chi84
Premium Member
It's easy to get trapped in the insular thinking of some of these threads.
Disney owes no obligation to cartoon characters. None. If they become more trouble than they're worth, Disney can and will unceremoniously kick them to the curb. It does not have to save, reinvent or explain them. It can replace them with different cartoon characters.
Disney is in the business of providing entertainment to its paying customers. I honestly can't think of a project less entertaining or more fraught with danger than remaking an old film that some consider racist in order to acknowledge the problems with it and show that they understand what they did wrong.
Disney has apparently instead decided to re-theme SM in order to update it and make it more inclusive and diverse. That seems far more in line with its business of entertaining its guests.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
What? Who is "erasing history?"
The whole issue here is that Song of the South took liberties to revise history. The question here is how to make that right. Keeping the film in the vault is one way to do that. Retheming the ride is another.
Sorry, I guess I don't follow your point.
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
Very true. That being said, there was originally a politically progressive black man in place of him initially, who ended up removing most of the offensive content in the original draft. Unfortunately, the southern white co-screenwriter wasn’t listening to his suggestions to portray the characters in the movie in a progressive way, so he left the production, went to the NAACP, and the rest is history!
How different things would have been if Walt stepped in, or if the other screen writer listened to the suggestions. It would be very likely we wouldn’t be having this conversation on this forum.
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
They’re erasing Brer Rabbit. I’ve explained the correlation between how Disney portrays a story and how it impacts the public perception of the original source material.
Case in point how some people now view the characters on here and through social media. Disney doesn’t own the Brer Rabbit folktales, but they practically have a monopoly on them.
NelsonRD
Well-Known Member
You are advocating anything that you feel offensive today, that occurred in the past, needs to be removed, or re-made. I disagree.
Chi84
Premium Member
I’m pretty sure no one in this entire thread advocated such.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
If that's your understanding of what I've been saying here, I've failed miserably. I'm sorry.
Homemade Imagineering
Well-Known Member
Quite honestly, I've been having some major mood swings when it comes to my love for Disney and how Modern Disney has affected my interests. I don't know if it's because most of us are stuck at home, and unable to go anywhere, or if it's my overall mental health taking a bit of a toll on me, but thinking about being at any of the parks seems kind of... depressing. Yeah, I don't think I'd ever say that, but I really think the reason for that is because over the course of the past few months or so, and with the Splash Mountain re-theme, I've had many "eye opening" moments.
By that, I mean I've started to think more and more about the future of the parks, and just thinking about that future makes me feel down. I know, that this kind of thing has been going on for a while now, and maybe I'm just now truly realizing what modern Disney really is, and what their motivations are. Now, in terms of Splash Mountain, as an attraction I've never felt too closely connected to it, just because I haven't been on it as much as other attractions, and by the time I convinced myself to ride, I was an older kid who had previously been deathly afraid of drops, so I wasn't necessarily upset about the re-theme, but rather what may follow...
The main reason as to why I'm so worried about the future of the parks, isn't because of Splash Mountain alone, it's what else Disney will feel comfortable touching in the future. I remember all of the sensationalism back in June when WDW Pro was dropping all of those bombs of information here, and how stressed I felt thinking about my favorite attraction being shuttered or altered beyond recognition. Now I would hate for that to happen, because at that point my respect for Disney would immediately plummet into the ground, and I wouldn't have many major interests left.
If my favorite attraction were, let's say, Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin / Astro Blasters in an alternate reality, and they did away with it, I think I'd maintain my interest in the parks because Buzz being my favorite attraction would probably say something about what kind of "fan" I am. It would say that I enjoy the parks a little more than others, but I'm not a Super fan like I am in this reality. Because my favorite attraction just so happens to be one with an extreme connection to Walt and his talented team of former Imagineers (IASW), I'd feel offended if it were erased. Not entirely because I've grown up with it, but also because it's erasing important artwork and history. I'd feel horrible for Rolly Crump, or Mary Blair's family.
On that note, I think I can attribute the way I'm feeling to that of Rolly Crump's actual words. "Fall in love with Disneyland, and Disneyland will break your heart." Bingo, there it is. If Disney continues on the current path it's on in terms of park decisions, maybe there will come a day when management decides to pull the plug on Pirates. Never say never... I know such a thing sounds ludicrous, but if money is all they care about nowadays, I wouldn't be all too surprised. The fans may not return, but the tourists will keep on coming, and as long as a steady amount of cash flow exists, that's all that mattes.
As for Splash, I feel that Jess Harnell summed up the way I feel. Yes, Splash is an outstanding achievement and a technological marvel, but if it makes certain people feel uncomfortable in such a touchy way, then I feel it's not all that ludicrous to initiate a re-theme. Of course there are attractions that make people feel scared or frightened, but racial issues are much, much more touchy, and if an attraction makes a certain group of minorities feel attacked, then so be it. Yes, Splash mountain never had to face this controversy because not many people heard of SotS, and once they found out it was a problematic film, they questioned the attraction's theme, and here we are now. At this point it's too late to fix the SotS ties without facing a PR nightmare from the general public, so we'll just have to accept that it's going to happen. I feel sorry for you fans of Splash, because I'd feel the same exact way if my favorite attraction were removed, and I don't think any of you deserve to be called out for being a fan of the attraction.
By that, I mean I've started to think more and more about the future of the parks, and just thinking about that future makes me feel down. I know, that this kind of thing has been going on for a while now, and maybe I'm just now truly realizing what modern Disney really is, and what their motivations are. Now, in terms of Splash Mountain, as an attraction I've never felt too closely connected to it, just because I haven't been on it as much as other attractions, and by the time I convinced myself to ride, I was an older kid who had previously been deathly afraid of drops, so I wasn't necessarily upset about the re-theme, but rather what may follow...
The main reason as to why I'm so worried about the future of the parks, isn't because of Splash Mountain alone, it's what else Disney will feel comfortable touching in the future. I remember all of the sensationalism back in June when WDW Pro was dropping all of those bombs of information here, and how stressed I felt thinking about my favorite attraction being shuttered or altered beyond recognition. Now I would hate for that to happen, because at that point my respect for Disney would immediately plummet into the ground, and I wouldn't have many major interests left.
If my favorite attraction were, let's say, Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin / Astro Blasters in an alternate reality, and they did away with it, I think I'd maintain my interest in the parks because Buzz being my favorite attraction would probably say something about what kind of "fan" I am. It would say that I enjoy the parks a little more than others, but I'm not a Super fan like I am in this reality. Because my favorite attraction just so happens to be one with an extreme connection to Walt and his talented team of former Imagineers (IASW), I'd feel offended if it were erased. Not entirely because I've grown up with it, but also because it's erasing important artwork and history. I'd feel horrible for Rolly Crump, or Mary Blair's family.
On that note, I think I can attribute the way I'm feeling to that of Rolly Crump's actual words. "Fall in love with Disneyland, and Disneyland will break your heart." Bingo, there it is. If Disney continues on the current path it's on in terms of park decisions, maybe there will come a day when management decides to pull the plug on Pirates. Never say never... I know such a thing sounds ludicrous, but if money is all they care about nowadays, I wouldn't be all too surprised. The fans may not return, but the tourists will keep on coming, and as long as a steady amount of cash flow exists, that's all that mattes.
As for Splash, I feel that Jess Harnell summed up the way I feel. Yes, Splash is an outstanding achievement and a technological marvel, but if it makes certain people feel uncomfortable in such a touchy way, then I feel it's not all that ludicrous to initiate a re-theme. Of course there are attractions that make people feel scared or frightened, but racial issues are much, much more touchy, and if an attraction makes a certain group of minorities feel attacked, then so be it. Yes, Splash mountain never had to face this controversy because not many people heard of SotS, and once they found out it was a problematic film, they questioned the attraction's theme, and here we are now. At this point it's too late to fix the SotS ties without facing a PR nightmare from the general public, so we'll just have to accept that it's going to happen. I feel sorry for you fans of Splash, because I'd feel the same exact way if my favorite attraction were removed, and I don't think any of you deserve to be called out for being a fan of the attraction.
NelsonRD
Well-Known Member
How did I misinterpret?
"remaking some of the insensitive films (with diversity in creative leadership and cast)"
"Keeping the film in the vault.."
"remake Song of the South"
"retheme"
Remember, every generation thinks they can do better. I grew up in the 80's and every TV show was violence, and included multiple explosions every episode. Someday we will look back at today and discuss how terrible an idea all this reality TV was.
Lastly, inclusion also includes exclusion. In order to include on group, another has to be excluded.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
You misinterpret because remaking a film doesn’t mean unmaking the original. It means making another one, but with changes (see all of Disney’s recent live-action remakes of the animated classics) that can make the film more modern, more diverse (though, in my opinion, rarely “better”) and drive up interest in the originals.
Disney chose to put Song of the South in the Vault. If the company has decided that they don’t want to stand behind the film anymore, don’t they have the right not to make it available? Is that “erasing history?”
I’m not sure what you mean by ”in order to include one group, another group has to be excluded.” How is this true? I really don’t understand. Who will be excluded by the changes to Splash Mountain?
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
That's basically just a more dishonest way of saying they want to look good. I'm sorry, but I have my doubts they're doing this because they genuinely care about people who might be offended by Splash Mountain.
To pander to the Twitterverse.
Chi84
Premium Member
I think they're doing this more to include groups that have been historically excluded rather than to appease the very few who might be offended by SM. It's a matter of focus - positive rather than negative.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
Splash mountain opened in Disneyland in 1989...At that point, all of the references back to the source material film were removed and wiped out...The only thing that remained was a few characters from the cartoon sequences, and a ride set in the southern red clay hills.
Aside from knowing where the characters came from originally, the movie has not seen the light of day in 40 years and none of the content or show scenes featured anything that was even barely problematic. There is nothing that can be changed to make it more PC because it has already been done... (the film btw takes place dur8ing the reconstruction where all of the workers were free employees). It is sad that the original African American folk tales that were enshrined in the film will be lost from public consciousness...
Aside from knowing where the characters came from originally, the movie has not seen the light of day in 40 years and none of the content or show scenes featured anything that was even barely problematic. There is nothing that can be changed to make it more PC because it has already been done... (the film btw takes place dur8ing the reconstruction where all of the workers were free employees). It is sad that the original African American folk tales that were enshrined in the film will be lost from public consciousness...
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
You’re claiming two contradictory things here: 1) that the ride has no meaningful connection to the film and is just an assortment of cartoon characters; and 2) that the folktales “enshrined in the film will be lost from public consciousness” because of the retheme.
montyz81
Well-Known Member
I could not have said it better myself. The Carousel of Progress makes this point abundantly clear. It focuses on using history to improve the future. We are spending too much time being sensitive about the past and then trying to rewrite it to soften the blow on future generations. The past happened, breath in, breath out, move on.
There is nothing offensive about the ride itself, the movie might have been, and Disney took care of that by locking it in the vault, sadly. Why do they have to take this next step.