News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[Chi84]

I’m not sure what you mean by ”in order to include one group, another group has to be excluded.” How is this true? I really don’t understand. Who will be excluded by the changes to Splash Mountain?

This reminds me of a discussion about the "keys" where a poster thought that prioritizing safety over inclusion would require Disney to exclude gay people from lifeboats. Many words have more than one meaning and often have different connotations depending on their use.

 

[celluloid]

To me, this is what makes me think that Disney (or someone in leadership anyway) actually believes in the values that are driving these changes. Otherwise, why change one of the most popular rides in the most popular park?

Not what that means. Values of merchandise is what it is. Which will sell more in the giftshop to provide a ROI.

 

[Bocabear]

You’re claiming two contradictory things here: 1) that the ride has no meaningful connection to the film and is just an assortment of cartoon characters; and 2) that the folktales “enshrined in the film will be lost from public consciousness” because of the retheme.

not contradictory... The Cartoon sequences were based on the African American folk tales enshrined in the film.. The film was written as a vehicle to feature the original stories...
If you remove everything of the movie that was written as the vehicle for the tales, then you are just left with the actual cartoon sequences... Which are not racist, but folk tales... Which should not be problematic at all...

 

[_caleb]

To pander to the Twitterverse.

But what does that get them? In your mind, is Disney thinking "Pandering to complainers on Twitter will help us make money?"

 

[_caleb]

They’re erasing Brer Rabbit. I’ve explained the correlation between how Disney portrays a story and how it impacts the public perception of the original source material.

Case in point how some people now view the characters on here and through social media. Disney doesn’t own the Brer Rabbit folktales, but they practically have a monopoly on them.

I agree with this (the second part of your post), but I still don't get how this is "erasing." It defiantly will shape how people think about the characters to some degree, but there are SO MANY animated characters from films that didn't do great at the box office that Disney doesn't emphasize. And many of those lesser-known characters have strong fandoms! I think the Br'er characters are being "demoted" in that sense, but "erased" seems like too dramatic a word to apply here, in my opinion.

 

[LittleBuford]

not contradictory... The Cartoon sequences were based on the African American folk tales enshrined in the film.. The film was written as a vehicle to feature the original stories...
If you remove everything of the movie that was written as the vehicle for the tales, then you are just left with the actual cartoon sequences... Which are not racist, but folk tales... Which should not be problematic at all...

But you yourself have acknowledged that the ride reads to most people as an assortment of cartoon characters in a Southern setting. Without further context (i.e., knowledge of the film or original stories), someone riding Splash Mountain is never going to make the connection to African American folklore. The ride is doing nothing to keep that tradition in the public consciousness.

 

[_caleb]

Not what that means. Values of merchandise is what it is. Which will sell more in the giftshop to provide a ROI.

So you're saying that Disney is spending tons of money to retheme Splash Mountain because they think it will sell tons more of PatF merch (which is already available)?

 

[Chi84]

But what does that get them? In your mind, is Disney thinking "Pandering to complainers on Twitter will help us make money?"

From what I understand, this change has been in the works for a few years. Disney has always been somewhat progressive and inclusive in its outlook. As the people who love Splash the way it is are so fond of pointing out, more people have expressed support for Splash in its current form than have petitioned to change it. I don't think the change is being driven by recent petitions. Even if it were, sometimes people we disagree with get their way - it's part of life.

 

[_caleb]

That's basically just a more dishonest way of saying they want to look good. I'm sorry, but I have my doubts they're doing this because they genuinely care about people who might be offended by Splash Mountain.

So you've said. But why do you have your doubts? Disney isn't a high school student subject to peer pressure from the cool kids. Disney leadership has set a goal to make the parks more inclusive and diverse, and has begun to make expensive and risky changes in pursuit of that goal. They're literally putting their money where their mouths are, and you're saying they're being dishonest? Why?

 

[_caleb]

This reminds me of a discussion about the "keys" where a poster thought that prioritizing safety over inclusion would require Disney to exclude gay people from lifeboats. Many words have more than one meaning and often have different connotations depending on their use.

I thought the same thing!

 

[FigmentFan82]

Okay, but how does that make Disney any money?

 

[FigmentFan82]

lost from public consciousness...

lost from Disney Parks. FTFY

 

[Brer Panther]

I think they're doing this more to include groups that have been historically excluded rather than to appease the very few who might be offended by SM. It's a matter of focus - positive rather than negative.

How exactly does Splash Mountain "exclude" any groups?

Why do they have to take this next step.

Didn't somebody mention that they're doing this because they were afraid of a Disney+ boycott?

From what I understand, this change has been in the works for a few years. Disney has always been somewhat progressive and inclusive in its outlook. As the people who love Splash the way it is are so fond of pointing out, more people have expressed support for Splash in its current form than have petitioned to change it. I don't think the change is being driven by recent petitions. Even if it were, sometimes people we disagree with get their way - it's part of life.

Reminder that Disney initially brushed off The Princess and the Frog as a flop for not making as much money as they'd hoped it would. Somehow, I doubt they were really planning this for a few years, especially if some of the things I've heard on this site are true.

 

[seabreezept813]

Quite honestly, I've been having some major mood swings when it comes to my love for Disney and how Modern Disney has affected my interests. I don't know if it's because most of us are stuck at home, and unable to go anywhere, or if it's my overall mental health taking a bit of a toll on me, but thinking about being at any of the parks seems kind of... depressing. Yeah, I don't think I'd ever say that, but I really think the reason for that is because over the course of the past few months or so, and with the Splash Mountain re-theme, I've had many "eye opening" moments.

By that, I mean I've started to think more and more about the future of the parks, and just thinking about that future makes me feel down. I know, that this kind of thing has been going on for a while now, and maybe I'm just now truly realizing what modern Disney really is, and what their motivations are. Now, in terms of Splash Mountain, as an attraction I've never felt too closely connected to it, just because I haven't been on it as much as other attractions, and by the time I convinced myself to ride, I was an older kid who had previously been deathly afraid of drops, so I wasn't necessarily upset about the re-theme, but rather what may follow...

The main reason as to why I'm so worried about the future of the parks, isn't because of Splash Mountain alone, it's what else Disney will feel comfortable touching in the future. I remember all of the sensationalism back in June when WDW Pro was dropping all of those bombs of information here, and how stressed I felt thinking about my favorite attraction being shuttered or altered beyond recognition. Now I would hate for that to happen, because at that point my respect for Disney would immediately plummet into the ground, and I wouldn't have many major interests left.

If my favorite attraction were, let's say, Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin / Astro Blasters in an alternate reality, and they did away with it, I think I'd maintain my interest in the parks because Buzz being my favorite attraction would probably say something about what kind of "fan" I am. It would say that I enjoy the parks a little more than others, but I'm not a Super fan like I am in this reality. Because my favorite attraction just so happens to be one with an extreme connection to Walt and his talented team of former Imagineers (IASW), I'd feel offended if it were erased. Not entirely because I've grown up with it, but also because it's erasing important artwork and history. I'd feel horrible for Rolly Crump, or Mary Blair's family.

On that note, I think I can attribute the way I'm feeling to that of Rolly Crump's actual words. "Fall in love with Disneyland, and Disneyland will break your heart." Bingo, there it is. If Disney continues on the current path it's on in terms of park decisions, maybe there will come a day when management decides to pull the plug on Pirates. Never say never... I know such a thing sounds ludicrous, but if money is all they care about nowadays, I wouldn't be all too surprised. The fans may not return, but the tourists will keep on coming, and as long as a steady amount of cash flow exists, that's all that mattes.

As for Splash, I feel that Jess Harnell summed up the way I feel. Yes, Splash is an outstanding achievement and a technological marvel, but if it makes certain people feel uncomfortable in such a touchy way, then I feel it's not all that ludicrous to initiate a re-theme. Of course there are attractions that make people feel scared or frightened, but racial issues are much, much more touchy, and if an attraction makes a certain group of minorities feel attacked, then so be it. Yes, Splash mountain never had to face this controversy because not many people heard of SotS, and once they found out it was a problematic film, they questioned the attraction's theme, and here we are now. At this point it's too late to fix the SotS ties without facing a PR nightmare from the general public, so we'll just have to accept that it's going to happen. I feel sorry for you fans of Splash, because I'd feel the same exact way if my favorite attraction were removed, and I don't think any of you deserve to be called out for being a fan of the attraction.

I feel you here. I will unashamedly say that Splash is my all time favorite Disney attraction that I really wanted to bring my kids on in a few years. The queue, especially the windows as you get down to the logs, the music and not just the ride songs but the loop, which makes my mom cry everytime she hears Tennessee Waltz, the endless AAs, the smell, that curve at the top when you see the parks and enter the show scenes. Call me crazy but a rabbit outsmarting a fox and bear just isn’t the racist calamity people are making it out to be. There are much bigger fish to fry and I don’t think it solves anything. The biggest fear is even the non story elements could be ruined.. aka the detail. That’s the essence of what makes it such an outstanding attraction. And shoehorning PATF in won’t do that film justice either. I miss when Disney did things right.. I see something like Pandora and wonder how we got FEA and how we will get whatever this is... Disney is still capable, instead they choose the easy route. Same with GMR.. potential to be updated, but instead rip out a lengthy detailed attraction and replace it with a 4 min experience. Disney can and should do better.
I think people forget that Disney is a theme park based on fictional stories from the past. Why read into it so much? Add in more representation, but don’t tear down what made Disney an icon to begin with...

 

[puckett26]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Wanted to share my point of view on this as I consider myself to be a middle ground fan of WDW (meaning I am not a classic Disney Parks advocator or pixie duster for lack of better terms).

Full disclosure – I love Splash Mountain. It is one of my favorite attractions at WDW. It combines all the necessary ingredients to produce a fantastic attraction. I am going to list some critical bullet points from my perspective.

• The story told throughout combined with the balance of show scenes and log flume drops are WDW at its best,
• I have never seen Song of the South and was unaware of the issues presented/created by the film,
• I can’t speak on behalf of those who find the source material offensive, but I hear and understand your point of view,
• The source movie material has zero impact on my enjoyment of the ride,
• PATF and Tiana certainly deserve proper representation in the parks,
• Given these points, I have no issue with a retheme of the ride so long as the elements that make it timeless are maintained,
• However, Frontierland is not the proper area of the park- all the other princesses are represented in Fantasy/New Fantasy Land.

My opinion - if Disney truly wants to be more inclusive, they should take their time and introduce PATF where it belongs and not shoehorn it into an existing attraction. Give the character and theme the proper attention and location that they deserve and don’t rush this project for public perception (if capex availability is an issue). Retheme SM using the same basic cat and mouse story by utilizing a new group of characters or classic Mickey (considering the lack of representation in the parks not including meet and greats/shows). Using classic Mickey characters will also mitigate the desire to force these characters into other attractions/areas in which they do not belong.

IMO, this decision appears to be driven by the current political and social climate in this country. Disney’s message would be far more impactful by announcing a park expansion to build a brand, new ride that represents Tiana properly. Instead, you get – hey we hear you and have been thinking about you, but we will give you this old space that we have thought about replacing for years. And oh, by the way, the character will be segregated from the other princesses and fracture/divide the Magic Kingdom’s theming. Short term thinking is not a good solution for attractions that should be timeless and not necessarily generational.

 

[Chi84]

How exactly does Splash Mountain "exclude" any groups?

Didn't somebody mention that they're doing this because they were afraid of a Disney+ boycott?

Reminder that Disney initially brushed off The Princess and the Frog as a flop for not making as much money as they'd hoped it would. Somehow, I doubt they were really planning this for a few years, especially if some of the things I've heard on this site are true.

Splash Mountain does not exclude any groups. I was referring to groups of people who have been historically excluded from certain places or activities - such as schools or social clubs - based on race or ethnicity. Disney is going the extra mile to make those groups feel included, just as society went the extra mile to exclude them in the past.

 

[PrinceCharming617]

I think they should try to carve every modern day black celebrity into the mountain like they did for animals at Animal Kingdom. Oprah and Beyonce of course should be in the center with Madea (Tyler Perry) off to the side.

 

[doctornick]

It is sad that the original African American folk tales that were enshrined in the film will be lost from public consciousness...

This I truly believe is the greatest tragedy. The stories that Splash are based on should be promoted and preserved. We can argue about the ways to do so, but finding a good way to do so would actually be more inclusive and have Disney be a "good steward" for society. You have an AA community that understandably and deservedly wants more representation in popular culture and this is something staring everyone in the face, but creatives don't want to take the proper steps to make it happen. It's easier to just bury the stories and ignore them and that's a sad result.

 

[Thank The Phoenicians]

I'm glad so many are as outraged and upset by this as I am (and no it's not because they are choosing to change the ride).

With the successful petition of getting 1.5 million signatures to sign and say they wouldn't go see Aquaman 2 if Amber Head was staring in it, I think if we want Disney to definitely NOT act on this we should hit them in their pocketbook and someone should start and we should all sign a petition saying we won't go see a specific blockbuster they have planned if they push this horrible idea through.

Give Tiana her own ride AND restaurant AND gift shop, and leave Splash Mountain alone!

I'm not on social media so someone else will have to take up this torch and decide what movie would make them really act and then spread the word near and far and get the signatures.

As of right now the petition to save the mountain had almost 90k signatures while the petition to change it didn't even have half that. I think at this point it's blatantly obvious Disney cares about their money, so let's show them we mean it!

Please feel free to use my words to create one!

 

[Chi84]

I'm glad so many are as outraged and upset by this as I am (and no it's not because they are choosing to change the ride).

With the successful petition of getting 1.5 million signatures to sign and say they wouldn't go see Aquaman 2 if Amber Head was staring in it, I think if we want Disney to definitely NOT act on this we should hit them in their pocketbook and someone should start and we should all sign a petition saying we won't go see a specific blockbuster they have planned if they push this horrible idea through.

Give Tiana her own ride AND restaurant AND gift shop, and leave Splash Mountain alone!

I'm not on social media so someone else will have to take up this torch and decide what movie would make them really act and then spread the word near and far and get the signatures.

As of right now the petition to save the mountain had almost 90k signatures while the petition to change it didn't even have half that. I think at this point it's blatantly obvious Disney cares about their money, so let's show them we mean it!

Please feel free to use my words to create one!

All this fuss took place when Disney first announced the change. I'm pretty sure it's over by now.