News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[_caleb]

I understand your sentiment. But your grouping several different people because they all appreciate a theme park attraction. They’re obviously going to react differently. They aren’t all my alt accounts or something.

This isn’t much better than the “All Splash fans are racist” attention clowns on Twitter. It’s extremely ignorant, and it’s not going to stop the comments you find so irritating. It just fuels the fire.

"Extremely ignorant?" About what? How am I grouping several different people? I certainly didn't have you in mind as I posted. Have you not read the comments in this thread?

I'm not trying to stop anyone from posting. I don't find the posts irritating. I'm genuinely sad to see fellow members struggling with the prospect of losing something they love. But I'm also interested in providing fellow members who are clearly upset by the changes another way of looking at things.

 

[_caleb]

The key here is "some people uncomfortable". How much is some people?

As an Italian, I am incredibly offended by Jersey Shore, I avoid all aspects of it at all cost, but I am also not planning on any campaign for censoring it either, and that is way more in my face than a 75 year old movie.

We don't know how many people might be uncomfortable with Splash Mountain's theme. How many would there need to be for you to take it seriously?

Self-censorship is not censorship.

 

[_caleb]

I don’t care if it’s on some list. The offensive stereotypes of First Nations and natives are still running today in Peter Pan and Jungle Cruise respectively. Announce that you’re taking them out now. There shouldn’t even be a speck of doubt about it, it should’ve been confirmed years ago.

So you're ok with Disney changing rides they no longer want to stand behind? You just disagree with the order in which they're approaching the changes?

Remember the changes to Pirates of the Caribbean? Do you see the motives behind those changes as being significantly different than the motives behind changing Splash?

 

[Brer Oswald]

"Extremely ignorant?" About what? How am I grouping several different people? I certainly didn't have you in mind as I posted. Have you not read the comments in this thread?

I'm not trying to stop anyone from posting. I don't find the posts irritating. I'm genuinely sad to see fellow members struggling with the prospect of losing something they love. But I'm also interested in providing fellow members who are clearly upset by the changes another way of looking at things.

I’m sorry. I’m just really tired of people shaming me for what I like. I’ve grown up with that from people who hated Disney, so it’s certainly not a fun experience from people who like Disney.

I understand the perspective of others, but I feel as if so many are ignorant to mine. You aren’t the right person to criticize for that.

 

[Brer Oswald]

So you're ok with Disney changing rides they no longer want to stand behind? You just disagree with the order in which they're approaching the changes?

Remember the changes to Pirates of the Caribbean? Do you see the motives behind those changes as being significantly different than the motives behind changing Splash?

I disagree with a lot of things regarding the way they’ve handled most of their “political adjustments”.

Splash is in a different category than potential scene changes in Jungle Cruise and Peter Pan, as well as the scene change in Pirates. Not only is the content present in these scenes more inappropriate than anything actually found on the Brer Rabbit themed ride, but there’s a lot less they can leverage off the changes, so their intentions become more clear.

 

[Chi84]

Anybody who thinks Disney actually has good intentions with this stupid retheme is kidding themselves.

Their stated intention is to create a theme that is more diverse and inclusive, and possibly more relevant to current and future guests.

 

[SamusAranX]

Thanks. I respect your desire for consistency on Disney's part.

You may remember @WDW Pro's post back in June that Disney had launched an internal "Attractions Diversity and Values Review Team that is reported to have a list of attractions they'd like to see addressed in some way, consistent with Disney's stated values.

While there may be some PR benefit for announcing changes to "problematic" rides and attractions, believe the effort to make these kinds of changes are motivated by more than just money.

Don't get me wrong, I am not personally offended by Splash Mountain and don't think it deserves this fate. OTOH, I have no issue with PATF as a Disney IP and hope the attraction turns out amazing (discussion of "too much IPs in the parks" nonwithstanding). That said I don't expect much because of Disney's track record with refits.

Moving on, what I don't like is slippery slopes nor perceived hypocrisy; there is ALOT that will be removed or changed at Disney World, and eventually you may see it happen to an attraction that you don't see as offensive at all or really love.

I am cynical, but it seems logical to me Disney did this (and formed the diversity team), not because of altruism, but because of PR images. I can almost certainly guarantee most of those who petitioned for this change:

A. Never rode it but heard it's "racist"
OR
B. Never go to Disney but heard it's "racist"
OR
C. Rode it, loved it, but heard "song of the south!!" and immediately condemned it

I was in Cat C until a few years ago; I would have never known the ride was inclusive of characters from SotS had I not been told, nor even aware of the questionable elements of the film had I not done research (I am a history buff). To me, that is a testament to how well disney did the attraction in using the Brer family while excising truly racist/prejudiced depictions. In a way, many people are being gaslighted here and forced to say or think SM is insensitive.

 

[_caleb]

I disagree with a lot of things regarding the way they’ve handled most of their “political adjustments”.

Splash is in a different category than potential scene changes in Jungle Cruise and Peter Pan, as well as the scene change in Pirates. Not only is the content present in these scenes more inappropriate than anything actually found on the Brer Rabbit themed ride, but there’s a lot less they can leverage off the changes, so their intentions become more clear.

I understand your perspective. I can imagine, though, that different people may prioritize the list differently.

I'm not sure how the Jungle Cruise has gone so long without changes to those scenes. I think all of the rides that are "insensitive" are kind of on a continuum of trouble for Disney, in that they will each need to be changed at some point, but the question is when (and how).

I think some of the rides are lower on the priority list than the newer ones. They're all derivative of the films they're based on, and seemed to make some attempt to de-emphasize the insensitive aspects. But the older ones (Peter Pan's Flight) were, like the films, products of their times (and creators). But the newer "problematic" rides (like Splash) seem to reflect on modern Disney in a way that the older ones maybe don't?

And shifts in the cultural discourse always seem to push attractions higher/lower on the "problematic" list. Tiki culture sees a resurgence? Tiki Room moves to lower on the list. Sexual Abuse in the spotlight? Reverse the turntables in Pirates' chase scenes. Oops, that wasn't enough? Change the Auction scene.

In my opinion, Splash was moved to the top of the list because of this year's anti racism protests. But I actually believe Disney is trying (clumsily and unevenly) to address these things because someone in leadership actually believes in the inclusion and diversity they're always talking about.

 

[_caleb]

Don't get me wrong, I am not personally offended by Splash Mountain and don't think it deserves this fate. OTOH, I have no issue with PATF as a Disney IP and hope the attraction turns out amazing (discussion of "too much IPs in the parks" nonwithstanding). That said I don't expect much because of Disney's track record with refits.

That said, what I don't like is slippery slopes nor perceived hypocrisy; there is ALOT that will be removed or changed at Disney World, and eventually you may see it happen to an attraction that you don't see as offensive at all or really love.

I am cynical, but it seems logical to me Disney did this (and formed the diversity team), not because of altruism, but because of PR images. I can almost certainly guarantee most of those who petitioned for this change:

A. Never rode it
B. Never go to Disney
C. Rode it, loved it, but heard "song of the south!!" and immediately condemned it

Makes sense. Like I said, I can see why the inconsistency would bother you.

For the record, I don't think the changes to Splash are in response to the change.org petition. If it was just a matter of caving to popular demand, the counter-petition would push things the other way. I think someone at the top believes that inclusion and diversity are right for the Company and the Parks.

 

[NelsonRD]

We don't know how many people might be uncomfortable with Splash Mountain's theme. How many would there need to be for you to take it seriously?

Self-censorship is not censorship.

A majority.

 

[celluloid]

A majority.

Or at the very least, not one of the most popular rides in the park that is the most popular theme park in the world!

 

[_caleb]

Anybody who thinks Disney actually has good intentions with this stupid retheme is kidding themselves.

I guess I'm kidding myself, then.

If there is another motive, what is it? Seriously, help me understand here. Do you think Disney expects people who would not otherwise visit to the parks and spend money will now do so because they've announced these changes? Enough to risk crossing all the people who love the ride and already spend lots of money at the parks?

 

[_caleb]

A majority.

So you think Disney should run their business by polling their audience (potential? actual?) and doing what the majority asks for?

 

[SamusAranX]

Makes sense. Like I said, I can see why the inconsistency would bother you.

For the record, I don't think the changes to Splash are in response to the change.org petition. If it was just a matter of caving to popular demand, the counter-petition would push things the other way. I think someone at the top believes that inclusion and diversity are right for the Company and the Parks.

Which is fine, and I don't doubt some want that to be a focus of Disney's path going forward.

I think it also comes down to what you believe the purpose of a corporation is: to make money and please shareholders, or to be good stewards in society. In a perfect world there would be a healthy mix, but overall, the former reason WILL take precedence. Which is why I can't see Disney going scorched earth, and taking down all attractions and "vaulting" up films with problematic issues. At some point it will crater consumer satisfaction and affect the bottom line. so will Disney remain consistent and push full steam ahead? Or did they do this to calm the howl and hope that "give an inch, lose a mile" doesn't occur? I am going with the second option

 

[_caleb]

Or at the very least, not one of the most popular rides in the park that is the most popular theme park in the world!

To me, this is what makes me think that Disney (or someone in leadership anyway) actually believes in the values that are driving these changes. Otherwise, why change one of the most popular rides in the most popular park?

 

[SamusAranX]

To me, this is what makes me think that Disney (or someone in leadership anyway) actually believes in the values that are driving these changes. Otherwise, why change one of the most popular rides in the most popular park?

being popular means it basically becomes a "big target" as well? I.e. visibility increases controversy. If say SM never existed, but there's been a small meet and greet with Brer Rabbit and company for the past ten years, do you really think there'd be a petition on change.org?

 

[Chi84]

. . . someone in leadership actually believes in the inclusion and diversity they're always talking about.

I agree. And there are many people who oppose the changes because they’re somewhere between annoyed and terrified about the move toward inclusion and diversity. After all, where will it end?

 

[_caleb]

Which is fine, and I don't doubt some want that to be a focus of Disney's path going forward.

I think it also comes down to what you believe the purpose of a corporation is: to make money and please shareholders, or to be good stewards in society. In a perfect world there would be a healthy mix, but overall, the former reason WILL take precedence. Which is why I can't see Disney going scorched earth, and taking down all attractions and "vaulting" up films with problematic issues. At some point it will crater consumer satisfaction and affect the bottom line. so will Disney remain consistent and push full steam ahead? Or did they do this to calm the howl and hope that "give an inch, lose a mile" doesn't occur? I am going with the second option

I agree! Great points.

I think there's a balance there (between making money/pleasing shareholders and being good stewards in society). I think Walt, though a shrewd businessman, leaned toward the stewardship side. And I think someone at the top (someone I don't dare praise on these boards) got to the end of his tenure very happy with his legacy on the moneymaking side, but not so proud of the stewardship side.

 

[NelsonRD]

So you think Disney should run their business by polling their audience (potential? actual?) and doing what the majority asks for?

It doesn't take a poll to determine this is not a popular change. This is a move to placate a squeaky wheel, and my original point is that if you look around, anything can be offensive if you let it.

 

[SamusAranX]

I agree. And there are many people who oppose the changes because they’re somewhere between annoyed and terrified about the move toward inclusion and diversity. After all, where will it end?

It will end when the Little Mermaid is removed from Disney+ and the ride is sent to the ash heap of Disney park history.