Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[General Mayhem]

I told you hunny, you got a big storm coming...

 

[orlandogal22]

Living in NJ, I didn't realize that the Hudson Valley of NY, (where the design of the mansion was based), was in the south, but ok...

Back in the context of RCID's original statement and surrounding conversation from yesterday, the reference he was making was to Disneyland.

 

[Oskar]

They're pulling money from planned Epcot capex investment of you'd like to know how they're paying for this.

This will dwarf the fan response to Journey Into Imagination. The money just isn't there for this project.

So you know now that it will be a thematic disaster, far worse than what happened to Journey into Imagination if it’s going to generate that kind of response?

 

[LSLS]

I can't believe this many people are outraged that disney is getting rid of something to put more ip in. Honestly I don't know how you people can keep feeling such anger and outrage. You know they are going to keep doing it.

 

[DubyooDeeDubyoo]

I'm not gonna sign some rando's petition nobody at Disney will listen to about Splash Mountain. (And I certainly won't give that rando money. What are you doing? Please let me know because maybe I should make futile internet petitions for hot topics and make some cash.) However I did want to address aspects and origins and what I think is "salvageable".

From what I can tell, the source for ZADD being based on minstrel music that was popular over fifty years before Walt was born seems be based on a book where the author asserts this is true with no real source or evidence that I can find. He then also goes on to say that Mickey Mouse's body from his shoe size to his wearing gloves is rooted in racism, though many of these same aspects were borrowed from Oswald and Felix the Cat and while Mickey didn't wear gloves until 1928, you would have to condemn a lot of characters including newer ones like Super Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog if things like big shoes and white gloves are symbols of white supremacy.

I will grant you, however, that the non-animated parts of Song of the South sound very boring and are insensitive to slavery. And the books, holy moly, the books are written (by a white man, mind you) in a sort of textualized black vernacular that makes "who dat?" sound tame; and to 2020 readers is almost painful to read. I really have no problem with the work of Joel Chandler Harris going into history's dustbin. Disney published their own copies of the Uncle Remus books with pretty artwork but, man, that text.

The characters are not solely Harris's but based in African mythology. I do still have a soft spot for Brer Rabbit, who can be found in many other symbols around the resorts (he has a tiny statue in the hub surrounding Partners.) I'd like to think with some work, they could come back in 10-20 years in a respectable fashion; but Disney would have to actually want to do that (they don't seem to like talking animals much lately) and REALLY should hire black writers to make some stories instead of adapting how 19th century whites imagined it. And Fox especially would need a lot of revisions.

The characters are public domain. Disney can do whatever they want with them, change them as they please. And as we know they own the rights to those interpretations. Unfortunately, they seem set to take the route of least resistance: pretending they were never on the wrong side of history and getting called out on it by that Warners disclaimer.

 

[SosoDude]

I'll miss Splash as it is, but it's Disney's attraction and they have the right to do as they wish. But, if Disney was serious they would denounce and relenquish ownership of "Song of the South" entirely. Make it public domain. But I guess that would mean they couldn't continue to release it overseas and profit from it.

I guess what I'm saying is that a person, group, or company can take any stance they want on social issues, but they need to be consistent. I'll never believe what you preach if your not really living it. If you believe it's truly racist, never open the ride again. Tear it down and burn it. If you truly believe the earth will be destroyed by climate change in 10 years, you shouldn't drive a gas powered vehicle ever again, much less own a fleet of them and depend on the airlines to deliver your "guest" to your front gate with money in hand. If you truly believe in a better life for everyone, don't buy or sell crap made by slave or child labor. If you are looking at the sins of America, take a look at the sins of all the other countries that you do business with. Slavery is as real and ugly today as it ever has been. Be consistent. Quit virtue signaling.

Sorry, rant over.

 

[thomas998]

I mean, come on, it’s pretty obvious given the subject matter and the chorus that when they wrote a song for SOTS they referenced that chorus. Obviously it’s not a copy of it but you can see where the inspiration came from. It isn’t common to just use the word “zip” in a song, especially “zip-a-dee.”

You can live in denial all you want If it makes you feel better that a song you like was likely derived from a racist song.

I see a difference between "zip-a-dee-doo-dah" and "Zip a duden duden duden"... is the word "zip" common today? No, but I wasn't alive in the 1800's and have no clue how common or uncommon it was. For all I know it was a very common word back then.. but when I see that "zip ****" was sung to the melody of "Turkey in the Straw" and I see no connection between that and the melody of "Zip-a-dee-doo-dah" then I simply can't accept that one was the derived from the other. It seems to be as much of coincidence as anything else. I'm also a bit perplexed at why you think the two men responsible for the song, that were born and raised in Connecticut in the early 20th century would have even been familiar with "zip ****" which was published in 1834? Do you think Connecticut was a bastion of hold over slave owners from the Civil War era that sat around singing old songs from the slave days? Sorry but when you look at the history of the two songs the evidence just doesn't hold up. I am much more inclined to believe that some woke warriors were looking for some way to make a further connection with the Antebellum South and Song of the South and when they found "Zip ****" they jumped for joy without bothering to look at whether it made sense that two guys from Connecticut would have ever heard of a racist song from the south that was created almost 100 years before they were even born.

 

[RCID]

What I want is Disney to apply this consistently. And recognize that if they are going to do this then they need to remove ALL problematic attractions/scenes. At least that is fair to all groups. And once that happens many that are cheering this on are going to realize what people meant by a slippery slope. I think many iconic attractions should/would be impacted.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I wondered about building code- wouldn't that depend on how extensive the work is?

Yes, but if this project doesn’t trigger a Level 3 renovation where everything must be brought up to code then it is a very cheap, small scale overlay.

For thirty years Disney has tried to distance Splash Mountain from Song of the South.

Not really. The film was theatrically re-released in 1986. Disney was apparently naming the movie online until very recently.

 

[thomas998]

I'm not gonna sign some rando's petition nobody at Disney will listen to about Splash Mountain. (And I certainly won't give that rando money. What are you doing? Please let me know because maybe I should make futile internet petitions for hot topics and make some cash.) However I did want to address aspects and origins and what I think is "salvageable".

From what I can tell, the source for ZADD being based on minstrel music that was popular over fifty years before Walt was born seems be based on a book where the author asserts this is true with no real source or evidence that I can find. He then also goes on to say that Mickey Mouse's body from his shoe size to his wearing gloves is rooted in racism, though many of these same aspects were borrowed from Oswald and Felix the Cat and while Mickey didn't wear gloves until 1928, you would have to condemn a lot of characters including newer ones like Super Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog if things like big shoes and white gloves are symbols of white supremacy.

I will grant you, however, that the non-animated parts of Song of the South sound very boring and are insensitive to slavery. And the books, holy moly, the books are written (by a white man, mind you) in a sort of textualized black vernacular that makes "who dat?" sound tame; and to 2020 readers is almost painful to read. I really have no problem with the work of Joel Chandler Harris going into history's dustbin. Disney published their own copies of the Uncle Remus books with pretty artwork but, man, that text.

The characters are not solely Harris's but based in African mythology. I do still have a soft spot for Brer Rabbit, who can be found in many other symbols around the resorts (he has a tiny statue in the hub surrounding Partners.) I'd like to think with some work, they could come back in 10-20 years in a respectable fashion; but Disney would have to actually want to do that (they don't seem to like talking animals much lately) and REALLY should hire black writers to make some stories instead of adapting how 19th century whites imagined it. And Fox especially would need a lot of revisions.

The characters are public domain. Disney can do whatever they want with them, change them as they please. And as we know they own the rights to those interpretations. Unfortunately, they seem set to take the route of least resistance: pretending they were never on the wrong side of history and getting called out on it by that Warners disclaimer.

You know I used to think that if I heard someone saying "who dat" or using other phrases that are typically assumed to be used by blacks that they were either black or someone making fun of blacks. But then when I was driving down southern Georgia and Alabama back in the 90's (not sure what state I was in because I was more than a bit lost) I remember stopping at a little hole in the wall cafe to get something to eat. And I was shock at what I heard because when the locals were talking I would have sworn they were black based on how they sounded and the way they spoke, even though I was in a cafe full of white folks. And then it hit me, the blacks that were brought to the US as slaves didn't speak English when they were captured in Africa so when they learned it they would have learned it from white people in America... I had simply stumbled onto a backwater place in the South where the influence of TV's hadn't managed to homogenize the English the way it has in most places. So while I understand that in today's world when you use a phrase like "who dat" it is assumed to be making fun of a black person, but when the book was written I have suspicion that it wasn't only the blacks in America that spoke like that, that it was large portion of all the people in the South that spoke like that.

 

[RCID]

I mean Disney princesses are feeding into body image issues for young girls across America. When are they going to redesign them to look “normal”?
Haunted mansion makes a joke on suicide minutes after entering....
Jungle Cruise head hunters scene has made me uncomfortable for years...
Peter Pans issues are well documented....
And that’s just for starters...

 

[thomas998]

What I want is Disney to apply this consistently. And recognize that if they are going to do this then they need to remove ALL problematic attractions/scenes. At least that is fair to all groups. And once that happens many that are cheering this on are going to realize what people meant by a slippery slope. I think many iconic attractions should/would be impacted.

Aside from the rides in Tomorrow land I don't think you can find any ride that someone couldn't be offended by.

 

[RCID]

Aside from the rides in Tomorrow land I don't think you can find any ride that someone couldn't be offended by.

Exactly, especially if we are considering not just the ride but the source material as we are with Splash. As I have mentioned, I’m a liberal person all for meaningful change...but If this is the direction society is going....it needs to be total. Picking and choosing what we are going to get rid of is almost worse...

 

[thomas998]

Sorry but I'm not buying that one. Zip **** was sung to the melody of Turkey in the Straw which sounds nothing like Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah . Aside from the word Zip, that's about the only real similarity I see in them. I also don't think the Star Spangled Banner sounds like Santa Claus is Coming to Town simply because they both start with "Oh".

https://www.sheetmusicnow.com/products/zip--p262577

If you don't read music just click on the play option at the front and you'll hear just how similar the song was to "Turkey in the Straw"

 

[thomas998]

The song, "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" is derived from a racist song that was performed in blackface minstrel shows. There are many other problems with the show as well. However, TWDC has decided to re-theme Splash Mountain to eliminate these racist tropes.

Nope, it was not derived from "zip ****", 100 years between the two songs, one from the South and one from 2 Connecticut guys, it was coincidence and nothing more.

 

[WDW Pro]

Nope, it was not derived from "zip ****", 100 years between the two songs, one from the South and one from 2 Connecticut guys, it was coincidence and nothing more.

Shhhh... they're hot on the trail of finding racism where nobody even thought it could be possible.

 

[Father Robinson]

This thread is a good example of how embedded white supremacy is in our society. Disney announces they're going to re-theme the attraction, yet in the face of this evidence, many people still refuse to think that any racism exists in Splash Mountain. Even after numerous clear examples have been shown. This is a fundamental problem.

Really? There's about as much racism existing "in Splash Mountain" as there is existing in a Dole Whip.

 

[thomas998]

This thread is a good example of how embedded white supremacy is in our society. Disney announces they're going to re-theme the attraction, yet in the face of this evidence, many people still refuse to think that any racism exists in Splash Mountain. Even after numerous clear examples have been shown. This is a fundamental problem.

There is no evidence.

However considering I'm not white and hardly into self loathing, your accusation that those of us that prefer to think logically about how ridiculous this entire mess is are pushing white supremacy shows just how racist you are.

Now don't you just love it when someone insinuates that you are a racist? Of course not, but sadly that's how the woke warriors like to fight, by claiming anyone they don't agree with is a racist. By trying to find racism in everything they don't like because they know it can be used as leverage to eliminate it.

Well, the world is getting tired of it and starting to say something. Your shenanigans are being exposed.

 

[orlandogal22]

There is no evidence.

However considering I'm not white and hardly into self loathing, your accusation that those of us that prefer to think logically about how ridiculous this entire mess is are pushing white supremacy shows just how racist you are.

Now don't you just love it when someone insinuates that you are a racist? Of course not, but sadly that's how the woke warriors like to fight, by claiming anyone they don't agree with is a racist. By trying to find racism in everything they don't like because they know it can be used as leverage to eliminate it.

Well, the world is getting tired of it and starting to say something. Your shenanigans are being exposed.

Yep, and like I said yesterday, if everything is racist, then nothing is racist.

 

[Hcalvert]

I don't know if this was said here or not as I have not read the thread.

If they want to re-theme it and keep with the land, why not Davy Crockett? They actually produced a movie "Davy Crockett and the River Pirates" which may fit the theme better? I don't know, I never seen the movie.

I have no objection to having "The Princess and the Frog" depicted at Disney, but in a more appropriate manner.