Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[Panchito Pistoles]

Navi River Journey is the only attraction in WDW that I actually hate-ride. They spent enough money on NRJ to build an amusement park. It’s so awful, it makes me smile.
Everything Splash Mountain has, wonderful music, lovable characters, and a super-fun finale, Navi River Journey HAS NOT.

I’m terrified that Magic Kingdom’s tentpole attraction will become a forgettable walk-on. I’m puzzled that others are cheering this on.

 

[_caleb]

Thank you, as well, for your honest answer. I especially appreciate that you stated you ENJOYED the ride.

I believe that many on this board are leading us to believe they never rode the ride, never enjoyed the ride, and have completely been against the ride since its inception. Many of whom cannot point to one specific instance while riding the ride where they felt threatened, saddened, or outraged. We can all agree the source material - whether or not one states it's Uncle Remus or SotS - is controversial; we can also agree that the ride is - in and of itself and taken on its own merits - not.

A significant amount of work was put into making the ride different from (less offensive than) the Song of the South. So lots of people came to enjoy the ride for what it was without even really knowing much about the association with the film. But as a society, we're starting to realize (at least I am) that some of the things I enjoy are actually perpetuating things that I don't want to support. So I'm deferring to those who are saying the ride is hurtful and looking forward to a version of the ride that is fun for more people.

 

[The_Jobu]

If you could divorce the ride from the context, sure. A fun ride based on black folktales is a totally solid idea. The issue though, and the reason it needs to be changed, is that it can never be that. It will always be associated with the film, even if it doesn't actually recreate the bad scenes. The ride's history can't be changed. We either ignore it or deal with it.


I wasn't really arguing the cheapness of things. Maybe I misread your post, it sounded liked you just weren't aware that the animatronics were recycled. I was only sharing some trivia. Fwiw, I think it's one of the better-made rides in the park. It may not have been the most expensive or complicated build, but it works extremely well.

I appreciate your view that you find the association to be the source of offense. I was maintaining that the ride itself, is not offensive. I would like to see debate head in the proper direction after starting at the same place.

Dont worry about the cheapness, that stemmed from a misunderstanding with an earlier post who equated retheming with building a new ride with some old parts.

 

[orlandogal22]

A significant amount of work was put into making the ride different from (less offensive than) the Song of the South. So lots of people came to enjoy the ride for what it was without even really knowing much about the association with the film. But as a society, we're starting to realize (at least I am) that some of the things I enjoy are actually perpetuating things that I don't want to support. So I'm deferring to those who are saying the ride is hurtful and looking forward to a version of the ride that is fun for more people.

I can choose not to support something (racism) while concurrently enjoying something else (a MK ride) on its solitary merits.

Many things in life are connected to things that are unpleasant in our past; it is whether or not one chooses to inherently - and perpetually - dwell on the unpleasant so much so that we will be stuck in a constant cancel culture.

But I can respect your opinion.

 

[21stamps]

I'm not trying to be noble. I'm trying to participate in conversation about a theme park ride with fellow fans of the theme parks. I don't understand the snide, mocking tone people keep taking. Don't you want to have a conversation?

I honestly would be interested to know your actual thoughts on Disney's responsibility to respond to social pressures. As an insider in the entertainment business, surely you can see the challenges of public backlash (in any direction). It seems clear to me that you don't think Disney should change Splash Mountain, but do you think there's ever a time to react/respond to public outcry? If so, what would be the determining factor for you?

Can you see the irony in the princess replacement though? Tiana’s story may have had a more attemptingly-feminist twist over the original fairy tale, but at the end of the day, she chose to give up her lifelong ambitions, to live as a frog with a man. The happy ending doesn’t change that.

Disney parks are full of this kind of this patriarchal stuff.. and it’s ok...I’m not calling for their removal, but why not stick with a less patronizing more gender neutral theme if replacing an attraction like Splash. Or, better yet, why not recognize that not many (if any) are actually offended by the ride itself.
@orlandogal22 made a great point, no one can explain what is offensive about the ride itself.

 

[_caleb]

I am saddened by the decision. That being said, I also absolutely would love a Tiana attraction. Just not to cancel out the other.

I believe what many are finding issue with is the timing. Why now. Why in the middle of COVID-19. Why in the middle of a time when the parks aren't even open. Why when they're involved in countless other park overhauls, ride overhauls, new builds, etc. Why when it's possible CMs jobs will be cut. It only points to one answer. A knee-jerk reaction based on current events.

Yeah, I think the retheme has been in the works for a while. I understand that there are lots of these sorts of ideas and proposals and plans floating around all the time at Disney. The timing of the announcement doesn't seem suspect to me, it seems timely as a PR move to say, "We're listening and responding by finding racially insensitive material in our parks/media and removing them from the shelves." It's a business decision, of course, but also one that shows Disney is listening and paying attention. Though many here are arguing that Disney is paying attention to the wrong thing, I think they're looking really far into the future–much like they've done with representation in content on Disney Channel, Marvel, Star Wars, etc.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

What if your perspective is limited and your experience is not universal? When neighbors say, "This hurts me!" what if, instead of insisting "No, it doesn't!", we listened and responded by changing the hurtful thing so that the parks are fun for everyone?

That's the approach Disney makes with guests all the time. Able-bodied people never had a problem with curbs on Main Street or stairs in the Space Mountain priority access queue, but those things really hurt the experience of people with limited mobility (a "small minority" to be sure). Disney spent a lot of money to change these sorts of things (sometimes voluntarily, sometimes by force of legal action). After a minor inconvenience to park guests, the result is that the fun is accessible to more people.

I get that you're not offended by the association between Splash Mountain and Song of the South. Lots of people aren't. But some are, and Disney sees fit to address it now. We can (and will!) disagree with their proposed solution (Princess and the Frog overlay), but can you see how these kinds of changes can result in a better experience for all?

Or at least recognize that Disney is trying to sell access to its art and being associated with racism is dangerous to their business.

This isn't unreasonable at all. I do question if society is honest enough and mature enough to apply it fairly and equally though. I enforce regulations as part of my job. I find people aren't always thrilled when the shoe is on the other foot. Equality is obviously a good, noble purpose that should be strived for but I am not sure people always fully understand or appreciate what it really means.

 

[Joel]

The biggest outrage in all of this is that if they had to retheme Splash, they couldn't base it on the greatest (and most egregiously underrepresented at WDW) Disney movie of all time. By which, of course, I mean The Emperor's New Groove.

 

[The_Jobu]

The biggest outrage in all of this is that if they had to retheme Splash, they couldn't base it on the greatest (and most egregiously underrepresented at WDW) Disney movie of all time. By which, of course, I mean The Emperor's New Groove.

I think you mean to say Oliver and Company?

 

[_caleb]

Can you see the irony in the princess replacement though? Tiana’s story may have had a more attemptingly-feminist twist over the original fairy tale, but at the end of the day, she chose to give up her lifelong ambitions, to live as a frog with a man. The happy ending doesn’t change that.

Disney parks are full of this kind of this patriarchal stuff.. and it’s ok...I’m not calling for their removal, but why not stick with a less patronizing more gender neutral theme if replacing an attraction like Splash. Or, better yet, why not recognize that not many (if any) are actually offended by the ride itself.
@orlandogal22 made a great point, no one can explain what is offensive about the ride itself.

I'm glad you're looking at criticism of the Princess and the Frog. I think that's a valid concern and worth discussing. As with all stories (including Song of the South), there are different factors that we should consider. For example, the intent of the creators vs. the effect of the film (I don't think Disney filmmakers were trying to promote racism, but I do think the film perpetuates racist ideas).

We should also consider how the film is received by audiences. In the case of Princess and the Frog, the film was an attempt to create a story that featured African American characters in a way African Americans could identify with while also appealing to the mass-market. In that regard, it seems to have been successful. Building on that success (of creating something that connects with an audience), it makes sense to me that Disney would choose it as a replacement/overlay for Splash Mountain.

Also, thematically, it probably won't take as much work to fit the style.

I'm all for discussion about the merits of the film!

 

[Sharon&Susan]

The biggest outrage in all of this is that if they had to retheme Splash, they couldn't base it on the greatest (and most egregiously underrepresented at WDW) Disney movie of all time. By which, of course, I mean The Emperor's New Groove.

Only problem is that Frontierland takes place in North America, not South America. silly It was already a leap for Splash Mountain and now this, but at least the South used to be apart of the American frontier.

I wouldn't mind an ENG ride is Adventureland though.

 

[WDW Pro]

I'm not trying to be noble. I'm trying to participate in conversation about a theme park ride with fellow fans of the theme parks. I don't understand the snide, mocking tone people keep taking. Don't you want to have a conversation?

I honestly would be interested to know your actual thoughts on Disney's responsibility to respond to social pressures. As an insider in the entertainment business, surely you can see the challenges of public backlash (in any direction). It seems clear to me that you don't think Disney should change Splash Mountain, but do you think there's ever a time to react/respond to public outcry? If so, what would be the determining factor for you?

Disney is an international corporation based in America that has historically supported western ideals and promulgated mythos supportive of individual responsibility towards morality. Disney has no responsibility to respond to any social pressures, but may do so in order to gain more capital or prevent loss of capital. Disney should and does follow certain principals that guide its actions, rather than relenting to changing mob mentality. I know of not one single person who has ever gone to Walt Disney World and determined that they would not ride Splash Mountain due to its alleged offensiveness. Not one. However, Disney has made a shrewd decision to modify the ride during a time when it will gain liberal clout for doing so, at a time when it needs liberal clout for its local Disneyland Resort which is facing significant scrutiny in its very liberal location. It likewise makes this decision knowing that princess merchandise sells more than Br'er Rabbit.

If Disney cared one iota about African Americans, they wouldn't have engaged in Chinese racist propaganda to shrink John Boyega on their advertisements. They never apologized. If Disney cared one iota about African Americans, they would invite inner city youth into their parks as part of some goodwill campaign to help children see a better option. If Disney cared one bit about oppressed minorities, they'd speak out against the concentration camps of China were millions are held in a system similar to the Russian gulags.

They don't do those things because they don't actually care. They do care about taking up liberal causes in the United States because they want pro-China administrations that keep products cheap due to quasi slave labor. And the twitterazi fall for it every single time.

 

[_caleb]

This isn't unreasonable at all. I do question if society is honest enough and mature enough to apply it fairly and equally though. I enforce regulations as part of my job. I find people aren't always thrilled when the shoe is on the other foot. Equality is obviously a good, noble purpose that should be strived for but I am not sure people always fully understand or appreciate what it really means.

Right. Or the cost (financially or otherwise). When adjustments require an "inconvenience" to others, sometimes that can actually be a very BIG inconvenience.

 

[Lirael]

The biggest outrage in all of this is that if they had to retheme Splash, they couldn't base it on the greatest (and most egregiously underrepresented at WDW) Disney movie of all time. By which, of course, I mean The Emperor's New Groove.

You know what? You're right. A fall that happens just after you hear Irma saying "Cronk, pull the lever" would be the pinnacle of experiences.

Or at least reenacting the canon falling down a waterfall scene in the movie. But that would be even more out of place in that MK area

 

[_caleb]

Disney is an international corporation based in America that has historically supported western ideals and promulgated mythos supportive of individual responsibility towards morality. Disney has no responsibility to respond to any social pressures, but may do so in order to gain more capital or prevent loss of capital. Disney should and does follow certain principals that guide its actions, rather than relenting to changing mob mentality. I know of not one single person who has ever gone to Walt Disney World and determined that they would not ride Splash Mountain due to its alleged offensiveness. Not one. However, Disney has made a shrewd decision to modify the ride during a time when it will gain liberal clout for doing so, at a time when it needs liberal clout for its local Disneyland Resort which is facing significant scrutiny in its very liberal location. It likewise makes this decision knowing that princess merchandise sells more than Br'er Rabbit.

If Disney cared one iota about African Americans, they wouldn't have engaged in Chinese racist propaganda to shrink John Boyega on their advertisements. They never apologized. If Disney cared one iota about African Americans, they would invite inner city youth into their parks as part of some goodwill campaign to help children see a better option. If Disney cared one bit about oppressed minorities, they'd speak out against the concentration camps of China were millions are held in a system similar to the Russian gulags.

They don't do those things because they don't actually care. They do care about taking up liberal causes in the United States because they want pro-China administrations that keep products cheap due to quasi slave labor. And the twitterazi fall for it every single time.

I'm not sure the Chinese government is impressed with efforts to remove racially insensitive associations in the parks, but I agree- the company's "values" are determined by what makes a profit. But that's why they do market research, isn't it? So maybe "responsibility" isn't the right word, but what percentage of guest/customer feedback do you think should cause Disney to respond and change?

 

[WDW Pro]

I'm not sure the Chinese government is impressed with efforts to remove racially insensitive associations in the parks, but I agree- the company's "values" are determined by what makes a profit. But that's why they do market research, isn't it? So maybe "responsibility" isn't the right word, but what percentage of guest/customer feedback do you think should cause Disney to respond and change?

Disney doesn't respond based on percentages of guest feedback. Disney responds based on money. Period.

 

[Panchito Pistoles]

Okay folks, we can relax. Disney just announced the name of the Splash Mountain refurb, and it sounds great!

“Journey into YOUR Splash Mountain, presented by KODAK.”

 

[lazyboy97o]

But there’s little evidence to suggest otherwise given the $50 million budget thrown around and the recent trends with the company’s newer rides.

There is almost no chance this is true. Pixar Pier cost well north of double that amount. The project is likely not even at the point where budgets are actually solidified. If anything, the very early announcement could be a way to shoot for the moon.

 

[Father Robinson]

I've said my peace and argued my opinion plenty yesterday in this thread, as have many others. After all that has been said, I see no solid reason to change it. The current atmosphere in the country has stirred a quick moving storm that seeks out what can we pull down, deface, occupy, remove, change because its been identified by a few as offensive and many leaders have caved quickly to lawlessness.
Under different circumstances, say a couple years ago, if Disney presented a plan to revamp Splash with PatF overlay, I wouldn't have as much of an issue with it as I do now. Like I said yesterday in my original rant... the ride is almost 30 years old. It remains a very popular attraction in any park it is built.
I have a problem with it being thrown under the bus now... partly because I fear it will not not be enough. The outrage crowd will sense they can go for more, and will look to see what else they can get shut down. TWDC is a HUGE target. Like Martin said CBJ could be next.. followed by JC. The Brers will no longer be part of parades and the Oscar award winning song will never be played again inside the parks. With Lincoln, Washington, and Jefferson statues being ripped down and defaced... HoP could be a target as well... not just because of 45. Changing the ride does not solve or move us in a direction to solve the societal issues we are dealing with now. Actually as others have pointed out... if you over-analyze PatF movie, there are questions on its content too.

Where does this end?

Fortunately it looks like we will have an opportunity to enjoy one final Splash before the characters are retired for good. I hope Disney execs will make good on the change and create a spectacular overlay.

Beautifully put!!! And spot ON!!

 

[MrHorse]

Ummm...people are more informed about some things and less informed about others. The Lincoln statue in Boston being under attack even though it was paid for by freed slaves is a perfect example. The Brer characters and stories are from African folklore - and have been adapted all over the world in 14 languages.

Sure? Obviously everyone isn't an expert on everything. But the times are long gone when you can have something like a major theme park attraction and just assume most people won't know the history. There isn't any issue with the Brer characters. The issue is with the movie the ride is based on. From the character designs to the music, the ride pulls very directly from the film.

Erasing everything from our past that people might be offended by would result in a wasteland. There will come a point at which society will have no choice but to accept that no culture in the world is guilt-free, and that history is riddled with cultures being horrible to one another.

By the same token, if we don't try to improve things, progress will never be made and large groups of people will never see equality. No one is talking about erasing history. (Aside from maybe Disney's basically pretending they never made the film.) The movie isn't going away. The Uncle Remus stories certainly aren't going anywhere. We're just redesigning a theme park ride that revels in a whitewashed version of black history. We're removing one specific, problematic portrayal of the stories.