Splash Mountain re-theme announced

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MrHorse

Active Member
Tell me what's offensive about Splash Mountain. Go ahead. I dare you. And dont bring up the movie it's "based on", that's not what is being changed.

Yeah, recycled animatronics on an entirely new ride system. Come on now...

You can't just ignore the movie. It's quite literally based on it. Even if they don't have any portrayals of the problematic aspects inside the ride, there are still issues. People are way more informed than they used to be. Many people already know the story behind the ride. Of those that don't, everyone knows Disney rides are almost all based on movies. Anyone that so much as google's the ride is immediately going to find out about the source. Disney can't just bury their head in the sand and pretend like things don't have context.

And yeah, the animatronics were largely recycled from the 'America Sings' ride when it closed.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
To be honest am I surprised this happened, no. What boggles my mind is Splash Mountain was one of the most popular attractions not only in the Magic Kingdom, but throughout all of WDW. It really shows anything can really occur to make change happen. I am not saying that the new re-themed Princess and the Frog version won't be spectacular because it probably will, but my one big concern is it just does not fit with the Adventureland theme. I will trust the Imagineers that they will do this justice in the change and I hope they can find a way to somehow keep at least some of the original theming to the ride.
Welcome to the boards!

I think many of us Disney parks fans have been disappointed about thematic integrity in the parks. This isn't a new challenge- MK has always had to stretch the themes of Frontierland and Adventureland to make Splash Mountain fit with Tom Sawyer Island, Big Thunder Mountain, and the Haunted Mansion. In my opinion, Disneyland does a much better job with this with New Orleans Square and Critter Country. Even though that park is much smaller, the transitions between themed areas is really well done. At MK, it seems like instead of transitions, they just tried to space things out and hope that would solve the problem. It doesn't.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
I can sum up this whole thread right now to save time.

No one has a single example of how Splash Mountain is offensive, because it isnt. The source material is what is causing offense.

An indeterminate amount of people believe this association... I dunno, gives strength to the source material? Validates it? I'm not really sure. So the ride is being changed.

Can good things come from bad places? Unknown. Has anyone seen how messed up all the fairy tales are that the entire company is based off of?

Now, feel free to yell at each other about whether this is a legitimate reason to take down a ride.
 

Father Robinson

Well-Known Member
The American Adventure does make for a pretty fascinating case study here, at least if we're discussing how presentation matters in cases like this.

Both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves; both harmed their slaves; Jefferson, in particular, went beyond that by never freeing his slaves (Washington at least did that upon his death), and by his fathering a family with Sally Hemings. The American Adventure does not touch on those facts; it does not engage with those figures in that specific area, and instead their roles as commander in chief of the Continental army and as author of the Declaration are emphasized as a means of telling the story the show wishes to convey.

Pivotally, however, the show, via Mark Twain, then goes out of its way to bring up the inherent shortcoming of the American Revolution and the Constitution: "...turns out 'We the People' didn't yet mean all the people", at which point we are then introduced to Frederick Douglass, who speaks passionately about the injustice of slavery. The implication is clear: Washington and Jefferson played pivotal roles in the creation of the new nation, which should be recognized, but they fell short of the ideals they espoused, which also must be recognized.

The show repeats this by seemingly glorifying westward expansion, only for Chief Joseph to powerfully interject "ENOUGH!" and speak of the genocide of his people. We are not being told to ignore the warts of American history, even if the show does sand away numerous rough edges or downplays the many problematic aspects of numerous figures presented (e.g. Teddy Roosevelt and John Muir: GREAT that they preserved America's natural beauty, and thank you Teddy for the FDA! But Muir's feelings on Natives and Roosevelt's views of "eugenically inferior" peoples? Uhh...). This is ultimately also shown in the finale montage, where numerous American figures of varying political stripes are shown, the message being "we take pride in our nation, but it's a nation forged in disagreement, conflict, and it's one that still needs to be made better for all its people through words, acts, and deeds." Powerful stuff.

However, If there's one moment in the show that I think could stand to be changed, it'd be the deifying of Charles Lindbergh. Recognizing the feat of the Spirit of St. Louis's flight isn't inherently terrible, but Lindbergh is fully glorified in his depiction in the show; there is no call to recognize where he fell short, and his ability to fly a plane supersedes all other considerations of him as a person. This
Hate to think of where we'd be as a nation without "the Declaration'
There's nothing racist about the "tar baby" story; unless you're uncomfortable with the fact that black people exist, having black skin.

I thought we were supposed to accept and celebrate Ebonics - yet you say we should repress the "african-american vernacular."

ALL of popular music is derived from African music. All of it. Again, we should celebrate this massive contribution to American and world culture, not hide it.

Brer Fox is not intended to be a white person. All of these characters are country black people, and the stories are told from their point of view.


The cancel culture is not comfortable with the unique parts of the different cultures in the American "melting pot," especially as white people view and use them. They call it "cultural appropriation" (which is hilarious). ...so white use of them must be minimized. That's what's going on here.
Yup!!!!
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
You can't just ignore the movie. It's quite literally based on it. Even if they don't have any portrayals of the problematic aspects inside the ride, there are still issues. People are way more informed than they used to be. Many people already know the story behind the ride. Of those that don't, everyone knows Disney rides are almost all based on movies. Anyone that so much as google's the ride is immediately going to find out about the source. Disney can't just bury their head in the sand and pretend like things don't have context.

And yeah, the animatronics were largely recycled from the 'America Sings' ride when it closed.

Ah, so you agree there's nothing wrong with Splash Mountain? That's useful, now we can shift discussion to the merits of good coming from bad.

And you'd do well to drop the "do it on the cheap" angle because they re-used AAs. It's an entirely new ride system, that's not cheap.
 

SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
You can't just ignore the movie. It's quite literally based on it. Even if they don't have any portrayals of the problematic aspects inside the ride, there are still issues. People are way more informed than they used to be. Many people already know the story behind the ride. Of those that don't, everyone knows Disney rides are almost all based on movies. Anyone that so much as google's the ride is immediately going to find out about the source. Disney can't just bury their head in the sand and pretend like things don't have context.

And yeah, the animatronics were largely recycled from the 'America Sings' ride when it closed.

Not arguing your point but isn't Disney burying its head in the sand when it comes to having a park in Shanghai?
 

N2dru

Well-Known Member
I can sum up this whole thread right now to save time.

No one has a single example of how Splash Mountain is offensive, because it isnt. The source material is what is causing offense.

An indeterminate amount of people believe this association... I dunno, gives strength to the source material? Validates it? I'm not really sure. So the ride is being changed.

Can good things come from bad places? Unknown. Has anyone seen how messed up all the fairy tales are that the entire company is based off of?

Now, feel free to yell at each other about whether this is a legitimate reason to take down a ride.
I have provided an example of elements in Splash Mountain that are offensive to me in previous posts. You not being offended doesn't mean someone else cannot be. And before the rebuttal of ppl are too sensitive is spoken...what right do you have to tell someone how to feel? Just saying.
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
I've said my peace and argued my opinion plenty yesterday in this thread, as have many others. After all that has been said, I see no solid reason to change it. The current atmosphere in the country has stirred a quick moving storm that seeks out what can we pull down, deface, occupy, remove, change because its been identified by a few as offensive and many leaders have caved quickly to lawlessness.
Under different circumstances, say a couple years ago, if Disney presented a plan to revamp Splash with PatF overlay, I wouldn't have as much of an issue with it as I do now. Like I said yesterday in my original rant... the ride is almost 30 years old. It remains a very popular attraction in any park it is built.
I have a problem with it being thrown under the bus now... partly because I fear it will not not be enough. The outrage crowd will sense they can go for more, and will look to see what else they can get shut down. TWDC is a HUGE target. Like Martin said CBJ could be next.. followed by JC. The Brers will no longer be part of parades and the Oscar award winning song will never be played again inside the parks. With Lincoln, Washington, and Jefferson statues being ripped down and defaced... HoP could be a target as well... not just because of 45. Changing the ride does not solve or move us in a direction to solve the societal issues we are dealing with now. Actually as others have pointed out... if you over-analyze PatF movie, there are questions on its content too.

Where does this end?

Fortunately it looks like we will have an opportunity to enjoy one final Splash before the characters are retired for good. I hope Disney execs will make good on the change and create a spectacular overlay.
 

MrHorse

Active Member
Has anyone actually found the ride itself offensive though? Remove the source material from the equation.
(Emphasis mine.)
You just can't do that though. You can't wave a wand and pretend something doesn't have context.
So long as it maintains the current theme, the ride will always be associated with the film and a whitewashed version of black history. To an extent, it will carry that association even afterward. It will still be the ride that Disney had to re-design. The question is really: How much change is enough to properly address the issue? For a theme park ride, I'd wager a redesign is probably enough.
 

WDW Pro

Well-Known Member
Not arguing your point but isn't Disney burying its head in the sand when it comes to having a park in Shanghai?

Listen, you're not supposed to bring up the coziness with a totalitarian nation that supports slave labor. Remember, the African American Male winning the oscar telling African folklore mythos was part of a racist, evil, anti-black movement. Stick to the woke talking points.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
I have provided an example of elements in Splash Mountain that are offensive to me in previous posts. You not being offended doesn't mean someone else cannot be. And before the rebuttal of ppl are too sensitive is spoken...what right do you have to tell someone how to feel? Just saying.

I'm not telling anyone how to feel at all, I'm waiting for someone to say one offensive thing about Splash Mountain. I'm genuinely curious, what was your example earlier?
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
Listen, you're not supposed to bring up the coziness with a totalitarian nation that supports slave labor. Remember, the African American Male winning the oscar telling African folklore mythos was part of a racist, evil, anti-black movement. Stick to the woke talking points.

Dont tell them about how they shrunk John Boyega on the Chinese posters...

That's a different business decision.
 

SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
I have provided an example of elements in Splash Mountain that are offensive to me in previous posts. You not being offended doesn't mean someone else cannot be. And before the rebuttal of ppl are too sensitive is spoken...what right do you have to tell someone how to feel? Just saying.
I actually have known of people to be offended by the voodoo in PATF because of their religion. I personally think that is extreme but how should this issue be handled in the re-theme, if at all?
 

WDW Pro

Well-Known Member
(Emphasis mine.)
You just can't do that though. You can't wave a wand and pretend something doesn't have context.
So long as it maintains the current theme, the ride will always be associated with the film and a whitewashed version of black history. To an extent, it will carry that association even afterward. It will still be the ride that Disney had to re-design. The question is really: How much change is enough to properly address the issue? For a theme park ride, I'd wager a redesign is probably enough.

I'm offended by Cinderella Castle. It represents the feminine need for a masculine savior, and supports the superiority of a ruling class over the masses.

Can we burn Cinderella Castle to the ground now?
 

RCID

Member
So when people go into the German Pavilion do people immediately think about that period from 1933-1945 and get offended or do they look at entirety of German culture and enjoy it for what has been presented?
This is another one that needs to be removed if this is the way we handle these things...
 
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