Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[celluloid]

WDW Magic moderators need to be better than this. I see posts defending the retheme disappearing, but you’re allowing many, many posts like this to remain.

Your board and your rules, but if WDW Magic moderators have taken the stance that racially-charged posts like this can remain — perhaps because they want to support only the “Save Splash Mountain” side — at least be honest about it.

Oh no,now the cancel culture is taking on Disney fan sites that have others with different opinions!

 

[wdwmagic]

WDW Magic moderators need to be better than this. I see posts defending the retheme disappearing, but you’re allowing many, many posts like this to remain.

Your board and your rules, but if WDW Magic moderators have taken the stance that racially-charged posts like this can remain — perhaps because they want to support only the “Save Splash Mountain” side — at least be honest about it.

I have not seen you report any posts - please do so. It is a very difficult task moderating this type of thread. You can find the report link beneath each post.

 

[mgf]

This has turned into a pretty ugly thread, and I am largely trying to stay out of this but:

1) Disney decided to do this as a private company. They own the park, the ride, the IPs. They gamed it out and decided it was a net positive for them as a company. I am an aggressive news consumer (and from a wide, wide range of sources). The public calls for retheming Splash were barely a blip on the radar in the last several weeks. The story never got serious legs. All this conspiratorial calling out of a "mob" is way overselling the seriousness of the limited public pressure Disney was getting. The company decided to do it even though they likely could have weathered the news cycle. You can disagree with their choice, but they made it proactively.

I hesitate to include this part but....

Maybe, just maybe they have known that a problematic decision was made in 1989 when they opened with this theme in the first place? They did not pick it in the 40's, 50's, 60's.... they picked it in almost 1990 and picked a film they had already run away from. I would bet this issue has been on their radar longer than most people in this thread would be willing to believe.

 

[ohioguy]

Considering kids (and many adults!) don't know who Uncle Remus, Brer Rabbit, etc. are these days, a re-theming is justified. Unlike most Disney classics, Song of the South has been buried for a generation -- and for good reason. The Princess and the Frog is far more relevant and has become even more popular post-release.

I'm assuming the ride is getting extensive an internal and external overhaul, including the facade. Imagineers are creative people. Who says the attraction will even be called "Splash MOUNTAIN"? Or even retain elements that indicate such? Yes, it'll be a flume ride, but Disney magic will be at work.

Maybe it's time to re-theme the entire Frontierland area?

 

[John park hopper]

Disney should post a disclaimer at each park entrance:
NOTICE
Certain rides may offend you, if you are inclined to be offended by anything and everything---- DO NOT ENTER --and your park admissions will be refunded in its entirety

 

[Lirael]

Apparently the ride will get a rename (or, like DHS, won't).

I'm glad that's just a temporary name, it's too long and doesn't roll off the tongue like Splash Mountain does. Hopefully the actual name does.

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

In all sincerity, allies of a movement are supposed to listen and support. Not lead, and not pick fights. The first time you heard from them that SM was a problem, that was the time to ask a lot a questions and understand as best you can. And even if you didn't, to bow out of that area of 'the fight.'

There are a lot of people who “support” BLM until any actual change (you know, what mature, empathetic reasonable adults and kids want) affects them.

The fact that some of the people here who claim to support BLM and social change did a 180 over a theme park ride speaks to their actual “support.”

“I want change, really, but not if it affects me by swapping out scenery in my favorite ride.”

Like seriously people, you think that others here don’t feel nostalgic and disappointed, while simultaneously being emotionally mature enough to realize why it’s important to make changes?

CBJ will affect me more than this, yet I had a conversation with my husband yesterday about why, despite that disappointment, I get it, and I understand it.

Being an open minded adult really isn’t all that hard. Trying to understand other people’s perspectives really isn’t that hard.

To those who refuse to see the connections to SotS and problematic material, smart people like Magic Feather have eloquently explained them and you choose to continue to ignore those explanations. Every person here understands your POV. So it’s ridiculous to continue saying we don’t.

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

Don’t let anyone tell you you’re racist for caring about this. The people that are doing this need an outlet to make themselves feel superior, and if something they liked was being attacked, they’d be defending it 10X more toxic than we are.

Listen, I know you have mental health issues, as you have mentioned your extreme depression and suicidal thoughts here. Honestly, you need to speak to a mental health professional.

But again, no one here has ever called anyone racist. And most (from what I can recall) have all said they enjoy and have fond memories of the ride. It’s sad to me that the extremists on this thread can not understand that there level-headed, mature adults here who enjoyed the ride but also believe it’s the right decision to change it. Enough already.

 

[celluloid]

There are a lot of people who “support” BLM until any actual change (you know, what mature, empathetic reasonable adults and kids want) affects them.

The fact that some of the people here who claim to support BLM and social change did a 180 over a theme park ride speaks to their actual “support.”

“I want change, really, but not if it affects me by swapping out scenery in my favorite ride.”

Like seriously people, you think that others here don’t feel nostalgic and disappointed, while simultaneously being emotionally mature enough to realize why it’s important to make changes?

CBJ will affect me more than this, yet I had a conversation with my husband yesterday about why, despite that disappointment, I get it, and I understand it.

Being an open minded adult really isn’t all that hard. Trying to understand other people’s perspectives really isn’t that hard.

To those who refuse to see the connections to SotS and problematic material, smart people like Magic Feather have eloquently explained them and you choose to continue to ignore those explanations. Every person here understands your POV. So it’s ridiculous to continue saying we don’t.

You mean people are a dynamic group and not all or nothing? People can want justice and to call out racism when they see it, and if they do not see racism in one thing, the default does not have to be they are racist or anti BLM. Some do not even believe systematic racism exists, but real racist situations can be called out when seen. Your condescending remarks or just referring to people who see it as racist as as "smart" and it is not that it is ignored, it is that some don't agree.

 

[jeanericuser001]

If disney really needs a project then why not check into changing pecos bills. Watch this video of the cartoon and you will see why it may not be a bad idea for a rebrand. Besides that restaurant could be turned into an awesome cajun restaurant.

 

[Father Robinson]

You mean people are a dynamic group and not all or nothing? People can want justice and to call out racism when they see it, and if they do not see racism in one thing, the default does not have to be they are racist or anti BLM. Some do not even believe systematic racism exist but real racist situations can be called out when seen. Your condescending remarks or just referring to people who see it as racist as as "smart" and it is not that it is ignored, it is that some don't agree.

Exactly, THANK YOU!!

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

You mean people are a dynamic group and not all or nothing? People can want justice and to call out racism when they see it, and if they do not see racism in one thing, the default does not have to be they are racist or anti BLM. Some do not even believe systematic racism exist but real racist situations can be called out when seen. Your condescending remarks or just referring to people who see it as racist as as "smart" and it is not that it is ignored, it is that some don't agree.

Not who see the ride as racist, but who recognize elements with racist connections, and why the company prefers to remove them.

There’s quite a difference between the two, and just because you choose not to see them does not mean they don’t exist.

Also, I never spoke about being smart, just emotional maturity. Also, a significant difference.

 

[celluloid]

Not who see the ride as racist, but who recognize elements with racist connections, and why the company prefers to remove them.

There’s quite a difference between the two.

Also, I never spoke about being smart, just emotional maturity. Also, a significant difference.

I was referring to your words:

"To those who refuse to see the connections to SotS and problematic material, smart people like Magic Feather have eloquently explained them"

There is more hateful subtext in that than many are going to find in Song of the South's story.

By your point, if someone thinks the ride or movie is not racist they are emotionally immature?

 

[Father Robinson]

Not who see the ride as racist, but who recognize elements with racist connections, and why the company prefers to remove them.

There’s quite a difference between the two, and just because you choose not to see them does not mean they don’t exist.

Also, I never spoke about being smart, just emotional maturity. Also, a significant difference.

What elements on that ride have racist connections, exactly?

 

[lebeau]

What elements on that ride have racist connections, exactly?

138 pages and you don't see where that has been addressed?

 

[RoysCabin]

Where'd you get your Ph.D. in History? Where do you teach?

MA in history from Rutgers University, MA in public policy and international affairs from William Paterson University, and I'm a high school teacher.

 

[monothingie]

To those who refuse to see the connections to SotS and problematic material, smart people like Magic Feather have eloquently explained them and you choose to continue to ignore those explanations.

I you look far back enough into many things you will find problematic issues and that creates a slippery slope.

Does Thomas Jefferson get removed from the American Adventure? George Washington from the HOP? Morocco and China from World Showcase? Pirates from POTC? Tom Sawyer Island? Main Street USA? Jungle Cruise? Slipper Canteen?

Rather than have a conversation about the merits and context of why things were created, the immediate rush to cancel them is very problematic. Canceling the past by judging it based on today's standards is extremely destructive.

 

[SpectroMan93]

This post is probably going to be strongly disagreed with and lost in the barrage of posts on this issue, but I feel its worth sharing and explaining a few aspects regarding my opinions on this.

You should be able to look back on my post history and see that I was pretty strongly against most attraction rethemes: from Frozenstrom to Guardians. Out of the recent string of ride rethemes that Disney has done, I can genuinely say that this one bohers me the least by a pretty sizable margin. Enough to the point where I'm not just tolerating it, but supporting it. So... why? This seems like something that, based on my track record, I should be strongly opposed to. To make this a little easier, I'm going to compare it to another operating attraction at MK with some in poor taste cultural depictions and talk about how that could/should change and how that does and does not apply to Splash Mountain's case.

For the sake of this post, I will be comparing Splash Mountain with the Jungle Cruise. For starters, Jungle Cruise has a more clearly problematic portrayal of African people in the attraction, as seen in the head hunters section, where stereotypical "savage" images are used as a threat to comedic effect. Thankfully, this could easily be corrected by removing this one section and replacing it with another gimmick, maybe bring in the pirañas from DL or something. Regardless, it is one part of a larger attraction.

Splash Mountain is clearly different, in that its racist moments are not at all explicitly found in the attraction; in fact, the attraction even tries to hastily cover up some of the problematic moments ported over from the films. As one of many examples, Brer Rabbit's capture with the beehive honey is intended to replicate his capture with the "tar baby" (the name alone should throw up about five red flags). Or there is the way that Brer Rabbit is meant to evoke the mannerisms and actions of a slave (African-American Vernacular and all) while Brer Fox is effectively a white slave owner of the time. Finally, one of the most unknown offenders is the iconic song itself "Zip-A-Dee-Do-Dah" which is derived from blackface performances intended to actively mock the African-American population. The ties to racism is so intertwined with the attraction that it would be impossible to modify in the same way as Jungle Cruise. For JC you just get a new scene' for Splash Mountain, take away the way the Brers are presented, some of the tropes from the film, and the song, and you barely have a ride left. At that point, if you remove that, there has to be a conscious effort to keep Song of the South involved, which I can guarantee there is next to no desire to do.

As for "why Princess and the Frog?" it's really the only IP that could easily slip into both mountains. Sure it's a stretch in Frontierland, but so was Song of the South. As for the "yes, but why not keep Splash Mountain and give Tiana her own ride?" crowd: Splash Mountain was on borrowed time due to its irremovable ties to racist symbols, and (at least at DLR) there wasn't really a good spot to give Tiana her own ride. Really this kills two birds with one stone (and we don't have to see some god-awful visuals of Splash being demolished Horizons-style.

I know Splash is a sentimental favorite for many, but if we want a better future we need to account for past mistakes. Letting a ride that has inherent ties to racist portrayals of African-Americans would not let that happen.


As kind of a P.S., I've seen a lot of people suggest that Tony Baxter was forced into being involved with this. I have had it confirmed by different people that he wasn't, and that he was asked and he elected to be involved with this.

I'm just replying to this so that more people can see it. Incredibly well written, Magic Feather.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Okay, I just woke up to find this thread having 100+ pages more than when i went to sleep last night.

Can anyone bring me up to speed? Or is it just 100+ pages of everyones opinion?

Is there any discussion on what this re-theme will look like, or is this just a 140-page flame war?

Only thing we have on the replacement ride is the art and story found in the Disney Park Blog.

Nothing's changed in this thread from the first 10 pages, except for an interesting tidbit indicating that this may indeed have been long planned (for a year as the DPB says) and not just a knee-jerk reaction...

Tony is being polite. The ride changes are already designed.

 

[Father Robinson]

138 pages and you don't see where that has been addressed?

Nope. I'm asking what specifically about the ride elements are connected to racism.