Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[Rich Brownn]

I didn't read through the whole thread and I am sure it has been mentioned but it does bear mentioning again, especially to all the Disney Shills that are on these boards ...

The petition to save Splash Mountain far exceeds all of the petitions to retheme Splash Mountain combined.

But we all know petitions mean nothing ...

Although I will put one thing in perspective ... the total number of people who have signed all the re-theme Splash Mountain petitions combined equates to about 30K people. WDW alone gets 58M visitors a year and Disneyland is 19M ... therefore the people that want Splash Mountain re-themed equates to approximately 0.0003% of the park going population.

Disney Corporate Executives, Disney Shills, and whoever is paid by Disney to read these boards ... I am sure you factored those numbers into your decisions, right?

The numbers are irrefutable, the overwhelming majority do not want this change to happen- and here's something else shocking, not everyone that doesn't want it to happen is a racist. Some people are just sick of losing classic e-ticket attractions, some people want ADDITIONS to the park not re-themes because that doesn't help with crowd control, some people are scared at the prospect of losing an attraction with 100 AAs (a dying art) which will undoubtedly be replaced by an attraction with considerably less (maybe) ...

My point is this- there is a way to have this discussion with civility and grace and without assuming what someone's motives may be behind what they want to see happen here but at the end of the day there are two big arguments for both sides that come from these numbers:

1. Disney is clearly making a decision that goes against the numbers, maybe that means something, maybe they think they are doing the right thing? (Although maybe its a marketing ploy to detract from the park delays)

2. The people that don't want it changed is the OVERWHELMING majority, so maybe those that do want it changed shouldn't think all of those people are crazy or racist or un-woke or whatever.

That's all.

The overwhelming majority of the south the 1840 thought slavery was ok. The overwhelming majority of the 1920s thought segregation was ok. Heck in 1776 the overwhelming majority thought women were too dumb to vote. Not saying I support the SM retime but to use "the masses.." is a weak argument. As someone once said (I forget who) "the masses are "

 

[Bairstow]

Well again, I agree with largely with what you said EXCEPT when you say that the Disney company as a company does not have a number. In principle or in spirit your idea of "X number of offended people equals Y" works but ... come on ... to say Disney is making this decision out of a moral obligation flies in the face of how every corporation runs in this country, and most especially Disney. I've worked in corporate America, for multiple Fortune 100 companies, and not once have I seen one make a decision purely for moral reasons ... it's always data driven ... sometimes those sectors converge, and sometimes a moral idea propels them to look into data to support a "moral decision" but never purely moral.

It's probably more accurate to say it's a moral question with economic implications. The data people can put whatever numbers and charts they want up on the powerpoint but at the end of the day it's the men and women in the board room that make the decisions everyone else has to live with.

The Walt Disney Company in particular has a history of making decisions based on the instincts and whims of its leadership. Supposedly Splash Mountain was only greenlit in the first place because Michael Eisner's kid thought the model looked neat.

 

[21stamps]

The overwhelming majority of the south the 1840 thought slavery was ok. The overwhelming majority of the 1920s thought segregation was ok. Heck in 1776 the overwhelming majority thought women were too dumb to vote. Not saying I support the SM retime but to use "the masses.." is a weak argument. As someone once said (I forget who) "the masses are *****"

Not only “too dumb to vote”, but not even worthy of being put in the constitution. .


Fun fact 1- Women are nowhere mentioned in the constitution of the USA.

Fun fact 2- black men got the right to vote in 1870.

Fun fact 3- women got the right to vote in 1920.


Synopsis.. history has a lot of injustice, we can deal with it by erasing it from public view, or we can realize that time has moved on.. and we are all equal under the law, today.

 

[Sue_Vongello]

It's probably more accurate to say it's a moral question with economic implications. The data people can put whatever numbers and charts they want up on the powerpoint but at the end of the day it's the men and women in the board room that make the decisions everyone else has to live with.

The Walt Disney Company in particular has a history of making decisions based on the instincts and whims of its leadership. Supposedly Splash Mountain was only greenlit in the first place because Michael Eisner's kid thought the model looked neat.

Now we are on the same page! Thanks for allowing me to dissent and responding in kind.

 

[Kate F]

Rough draft:

 

[Bleed0range]

You're insinuation that the song was spawned from the racist song is not harmless at all as by doing so you are furthering a meritless accusation. The more times someone continues to spout off nonsense the better the chance of others to start simply believing the accusation. You made a decision to keep peddling the nonsense, now as you claim changing the ride is a good thing it is pretty obvious you're in the whole corner.

I mean what evidence do you have that it isn’t true? If you want, we can at least agree that neither of us know the full truth and never will and it is up to each individual to decide for themselves. Your bias towards liking the ride and song will always lead you to not believing there could be a connection.

My position is more neutral because Splash was never my favorite ride and although I like the song, I don’t care too much if it does have connections to racism. That’s fine. But the fact is the ride is based on a pretty outdated racist film with a song that at the very least can easily be compared to a racist song from the era the movie takes place.

So yeah, I’m okay with Disney making the change. I’d have been okay if they didn’t change it too. But they are and I think it’s for the best.

 

[21stamps]

I mean what evidence do you have that it isn’t true?

This is the biggest cancer in our society.. This sentence, listed right above.

 

[brb1006]

What a dumpster fire of a thread this is.

 

[Donaldfan1934]

Rough draft:
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That was beautifully written Kate. It really goes to show that the positive impact the attraction has had on people’s lives over the past 3 decades far outweighs any negativity that’s ever been imposed upon it.

 

[aw14]

The question then becomes, should everyone do without something because a relative few are offended by it? I'm Irish, and to me, the "fighting Irish" stereotype can be perceived as a good thing as well - perseverance, toughness, determination, etc.

part of the reason why the KC Chiefs, Washington Redskins, Atlanta Braves, etc.. have, for now, kept their names. A small percentage may be offended. Ironically, those offense are typically not part of the group, and are usually the woke white liberals (no offense to anyone specifically here)

 

[the.dreamfinder]

 

[21stamps]

Never expected to read something like this..it’s definitely 2020.

** I should elaborate for those who may not understand my post-

Woke Folks, when Sean Lennon, son of Yoko and John, says you’re too much.. you’re probably too much.

 

[manmythlegend]

I think the big issue we have right now is people just have too much damn time on their hands with many of them not being able to go to work or do much in the way of entertainment. We need people to get back to work, we needs sports back to take up our evenings, and we need kids back in school. Once that happens, people just aren't going to have time for silly stuff anymore.

 

[thomas998]

Well again, I agree with largely with what you said EXCEPT when you say that the Disney company as a company does not have a number. In principle or in spirit your idea of "X number of offended people equals Y" works but ... come on ... to say Disney is making this decision out of a moral obligation flies in the face of how every corporation runs in this country, and most especially Disney. I've worked in corporate America, for multiple Fortune 100 companies, and not once have I seen one make a decision purely for moral reasons ... it's always data driven ... sometimes those sectors converge, and sometimes a moral idea propels them to look into data to support a "moral decision" but never purely moral.

Generally that is true, but never underestimate the stupidity of an executive in a company. I have seen theme make decisions based solely on personal beliefs and agendas, in tiny ways such as give X a job when his only qualification was being the CEO's daughter's softball coach to having to enter into a multi million dollar lease with a company simply because a VP's frat brother was working for the other company. One company I worked at suddenly embarked on a quest to have the same number of female engineers as Male engineers simply because the daughter of the CEO took some gender studies class and convinced him it was the thing to do... of course it ignored the reality that you couldn't find enough female petroleum engineers that were graduating from the schools where we recruited even if you could have forced every female PE to accept a job... so while I will agree that decisions aren't made to be nice they are often made for silly uninformed reasons that ignore the duty to shareholders.

 

[Sue_Vongello]

Generally that is true, but never underestimate the stupidity of an executive in a company. I have seen theme make decisions based solely on personal beliefs and agendas, in tiny ways such as give X a job when his only qualification was being the CEO's daughter's softball coach to having to enter into a multi million dollar lease with a company simply because a VP's frat brother was working for the other company. One company I worked at suddenly embarked on a quest to have the same number of female engineers as Male engineers simply because the daughter of the CEO took some gender studies class and convinced him it was the thing to do... of course it ignored the reality that you couldn't find enough female petroleum engineers that were graduating from the schools where we recruited even if you could have forced every female PE to accept a job... so while I will agree that decisions aren't made to be nice they are often made for silly uninformed reasons that ignore the duty to shareholders.

Exactly ... you can't conflate reciprocity or nepotism with a company willing to ignore data driven decision making strictly for moral reasons.

 

[Joel]

As someone who just watched Song of the South for the first time in my life, I think Disney's actions (or, more precisely, its inaction) over the past few decades are to blame for the movie being popularly known merely as "that one secret, racist Disney movie".

Is it totally unproblematic? Of course not. I mean, it's a Disney movie from 1946, for crying out loud! Of course it's going to be a not terribly accurate or nuanced depiction of life. But it's not even close to the ignorant (by definition) perception that I had of it for decades. If Disney had just released the film on home video with some editing and appropriate disclaimers and context, I believe it wouldn't be nearly as controversial as it is today.

That Splash Mountain could be concerned cancellable because of it seems even more ridiculous to me now.

 

[SilentWindODoom]

Re: Elsa .. she doesn’t need to end up without a love interest in her life, but she has plenty of time to figure that out, and she won’t need to be saved when it does happen.

Nah, she's the most powerful being in that universe. Then again, a lesson to not hold everything on your shoulders and accept help could always come in the future. Although I feel like that has come up in both films without being totally resolved.

Woke warriors fling the racist word as freely as monkeys fling feces, only I think the monkeys have a better understanding of what they are doing than the woke warriors. Those clueless warriors just use the word as a catchall for anyone that doesn't believe what they believe.

Oof. I don't disagree with the premise, but egads that's not an illustration that's going to help in any argument on race.

Whatever issues Dumbo may have (and it certainly has them), those characters are not slaves. The film is set in the twentieth century.

Yeah, I was wondering about that, but there was plenty of other discussion going on.

I've stopped regularly watching Disney vloggers, save for a random video here or there. It's all such repetitive content.

Tim and Jenn Tracker are cool. Real genuine nice people with a goofy sense of humor and while I enjoyed the check ins on the park, I've started to appreciate watching their son who was born at the end of last year grow up while they've been stuck in quarantine.

I can't be sure, but I doubt the membership of this site is all that diverse. Even without regard to racial makeup, these boards tend to skew older and wealthier, and the attitudes and comments will reflect that. Your post is very thoughtful, but from what I've seen here, there are also people of "no diversity" who can't understand why Disney would re-theme this ride simply to be more inclusive, and they fear losing even more going forward.

Did you miss the black guy earlier who lamented the replacement of African-American folklore with African roots with a European fairytale that had the races switched?

I agree that the use of the term problematical was less than clear. My intention is that it was problematical to Disney. I’m not keen on the word either but couldn’t think of another neutral type word. It was in fact problematical to me!!! Please don’t be cross!!

I thought all the confusion was because I'm 98% sure problematical isn't a word.

The bottom line is Tiana was a poor choice for a black Disney princess. She is really nothing more than a copy of Cinderella with different colored skin and hair. At least when you see Mulan or Moana you can tell that they tried to capture some sense of the ethnicity of the character. Tiana is more of an insult, it is as if Mattel decided to make black barbies by just changing the color of the plastic and color of the hair... Quite pathetic, yet I'm sure it was easier for Disney to do it that way than to try and develop a real character representative to the black girls in America

Cinderella: Emotionally abused slave who is kindly but does have more attitude than most people give her credit for. Her good nature is rewarded by a fairy appearing and giving her a chance to fulfill her dreams. She meets someone and falls in love and is rescued from her abusive situation.

Tiana: Young woman working two jobs to try to afford a restaurant. She's misunderstood her father's dreams and his most important lesson of dreaming but also living in the present with your loved ones, and is focused on fulfilling his dreams and nothing else. She gets the money, but the opportunity she had is taken away due to racism. Due to a misunderstanding she gets turned into a frog and goes through a journey to try to fix the situation. She and her fellow frog learn to appreciate each other and wind up falling in love. She learns the lesson her father wanted her to learn and becomes a far more rounded person. In the end she gets her restaurant and her love.

These are two completely different stories and arcs. Are you one of those "loose tan clothes on desert planet meant Rey is a cheap knockoff of Luke" people?

 

[Parker in NYC]

Not only “too dumb to vote”, but not even worthy of being put in the constitution. .


Fun fact 1- Women are nowhere mentioned in the constitution of the USA.

Fun fact 2- black men got the right to vote in 1870.

Fun fact 3- women got the right to vote in 1920.


Synopsis.. history has a lot of injustice, we can deal with it by erasing it from public view, or we can realize that time has moved on.. and we are all equal under the law, today.

As a trans woman, I disagree.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Oh, lord. This was moved to the Politics Board! G'bye all!

 

[Incomudro]

I didn't read through the whole thread and I am sure it has been mentioned but it does bear mentioning again, especially to all the Disney Shills that are on these boards ...

The petition to save Splash Mountain far exceeds all of the petitions to retheme Splash Mountain combined.

But we all know petitions mean nothing ...

Although I will put one thing in perspective ... the total number of people who have signed all the re-theme Splash Mountain petitions combined equates to about 30K people. WDW alone gets 58M visitors a year and Disneyland is 19M ... therefore the people that want Splash Mountain re-themed equates to approximately 0.0003% of the park going population.

Disney Corporate Executives, Disney Shills, and whoever is paid by Disney to read these boards ... I am sure you factored those numbers into your decisions, right?

The numbers are irrefutable, the overwhelming majority do not want this change to happen- and here's something else shocking, not everyone that doesn't want it to happen is a racist. Some people are just sick of losing classic e-ticket attractions, some people want ADDITIONS to the park not re-themes because that doesn't help with crowd control, some people are scared at the prospect of losing an attraction with 100 AAs (a dying art) which will undoubtedly be replaced by an attraction with considerably less (maybe) ...

My point is this- there is a way to have this discussion with civility and grace and without assuming what someone's motives may be behind what they want to see happen here but at the end of the day there are two big arguments for both sides that come from these numbers:

1. Disney is clearly making a decision that goes against the numbers, maybe that means something, maybe they think they are doing the right thing? (Although maybe its a marketing ploy to detract from the park delays)

2. The people that don't want it changed is the OVERWHELMING majority, so maybe those that do want it changed shouldn't think all of those people are crazy or racist or un-woke or whatever.

That's all.

Where can I sign this petition?