Splash Mountain re-theme announced

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Incomudro

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
Flugell said:
Please forgive me, I’m trying to read my way through this thread and am currently on page 138! It seems to be growing faster than I can read and I’m a quick reader but just wanted to add my ideas from what I’ve surmised so far.
Far from seeing 2 opposing views I think there are three and can appreciate all of them.
1. The people of all diversities who accept that Splash Mountain needs to be eradicated because of the long established connection to the film Song of the South and the unacceptable view of African Americans as portrayed in that film.
2. The people of all diversities who wish to retain Splash Mountain as a truly great ride and feel that the connection to the film is tenuous because of the way the ride has been imagined.
3. The people of all diversities who acknowledge the racist overtones within the ride but feel that retaining it, with education about the historical context of the story and the celebration of the African American oral story telling culture, could be of more benefit to people of all diversities in giving a greater understanding of the past and what needs to change going forward.
In my opinion each have some merit though given a choice I’d vote for number 3!
I have never seen Princess and the Frog (I’m 62 years old so a little old for Princess movies) but feel that the idea of replacing a racially sensitive ride with a “token” black princess could be regarded as patronising. Think- we’ve got rid of Song of the South and given “them” (the public) Tiana, that should stop the moaning for a bit. Or maybe I’m just old and twisted but feel that Disney’s first black Princess deserves better than to be a band aid over the problematical Splash Mountain.
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Good post, but I take exception with the term "problematical Splash Mountain."
The film is a problem for some.
The attraction of Splash Mountain itself is not "problematical" at all. (I really hate the term problematic.)
The problem where it exists for some - is the attractions connection to the film.
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
21stamps said:
Wait, “older and wealthier” = lack of diversity?
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In a sense, yes. I don't think Disney was aiming the re-theme at its older guests who have the means to visit Disney frequently enough to become emotionally attached to the rides. I believe they're aiming at a younger demographic.
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Bleed0range said:
I don’t think you understand how songs are written. It would be like, they need a song that would sound like something of the era of Reconstruction or before. They see this song and take from “Zip-a-Duden” and give it their own spin to avoid straight up plagiarism. They put a happy spin on it because that’s what they’re trying to do. They may even be trying to take something bad and make something good out of it.

But my point is simply people don’t generally use that terminology by happy coincidence and it makes perfect sense in the context of having to write a song for the movie.

You can give them bonus points if you think they were trying to make something good out of something bad. If that makes you feel better. But that’s what this ride was also trying to do.
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Really reaching here with that one. Conjecture.
"High Ho" sung by The Seven Dwarfs is clearly a song about prostitution And belittling women.
A Pineapple Dole Whip must be correlated to the slur Pineapple, it really was once a racial Slurs, and whipping must mean the abuse of a person as property. Every word or sound has been corrupted at one point or another. It does not demonize the use when someone's intentions are. It bad. The same way you saying Ho Ho Ho as Santa does not make it bad because your intent is not.
Ever hear of Scat? There are words and sounds people sing. Zip is a sound.
The racial points or issues keep changing folks. They are really reaching. The same way DIck Can D yke or anyone else does not have to feel guilty with that name just because some before or after.perverted it.
If you hear.me singing Doo is Doobie doo, if is not be singing of marijuana.
 
Flugell

Flugell

Well-Known Member
Incomudro said:
Good post, but I take exception with the term "problematical Splash Mountain."
The film is a problem for some.
The attraction of Splash Mountain itself is not "problematical" at all. (I really hate the term problematic.)
The problem where it exists for some - is the attractions connection to the film.
Click to expand...
I agree that the use of the term problematical was less than clear. My intention is that it was problematical to Disney. I’m not keen on the word either but couldn’t think of another neutral type word. It was in fact problematical to me!!! Please don’t be cross!!
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
21stamps said:
Oh, I definitely think this was aimed at the young social media hashtag crowd.
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That's possible, but no one knows for certain. Disney as a company has tended to be more progressive and inclusive than most. They were industry leaders in accommodating the disabled even before the ADA required it.

Disney probably employs people whose sole job is to look to the future and predict how these changes will affect its customer base (and profits) down the line.
 
Phil12

Phil12

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
That's possible, but no one knows for certain. Disney as a company has tended to be more progressive and inclusive than most. They were industry leaders in accommodating the disabled even before the ADA required it.

Disney probably employs people whose sole job is to look to the future and predict how these changes will affect its customer base (and profits) down the line.
Click to expand...
1593362653335.png
 
21stamps

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
That's possible, but no one knows for certain. Disney as a company has tended to be more progressive and inclusive than most. They were industry leaders in accommodating the disabled even before the ADA required it.

Disney probably employs people whose sole job is to look to the future and predict how these changes will affect its customer base (and profits) down the line.
Click to expand...

All I know for certain is that every company is bending over backwards to show how aware and inclusive they are, with mostly superficial actions. Those superficial actions get loud cheers, and nothing really changes. I’d like to see a bit more meaningful change... but that doesn’t come as easily as a statement, photo, or re-theming a ride.
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Flugell said:
the idea of replacing a racially sensitive ride with a “token” black princess could be regarded as patronising. Think- we’ve got rid of Song of the South and given “them” (the public) Tiana, that should stop the moaning for a bit. Or maybe I’m just old and twisted but feel that Disney’s first black Princess deserves better than to be a band aid over the problematical Splash Mountain.
Click to expand...

It's absolutely patronizing, especially when you know this is ultimately about marketing the parks, selling tickets and toys. Disney is trying to spin anger over racial injustice into something profitable, with a minimum of effort on their part.

Disney is kidding themselves if they think this will end any controversy over the ride. Especially if the makeover is done on the cheap.
 
T

thomas998

Well-Known Member
Bleed0range said:
I don’t think you understand how songs are written. It would be like, they need a song that would sound like something of the era of Reconstruction or before. They see this song and take from “Zip-a-Duden” and give it their own spin to avoid straight up plagiarism. They put a happy spin on it because that’s what they’re trying to do. They may even be trying to take something bad and make something good out of it.

But my point is simply people don’t generally use that terminology by happy coincidence and it makes perfect sense in the context of having to write a song for the movie.

You can give them bonus points if you think they were trying to make something good out of something bad. If that makes you feel better. But that’s what this ride was also trying to do.
Click to expand...
I'm quite aware of how songs are written, I started my life as music major in undergrad... so I'm pretty sure I know much more than you could ever imagine about music, music theory and how songs are written. There is no evidence that the one song came from another.

Your problem is that like all the other woke warriors you went out looking to find a connection to slavery and racism and guess what... if you look for something hard enough you'll manage to convince yourself that something exist when the fact is it is only in our imagination. There has NEVER been any real evidence that lyricist of the song ever heard of the other one. Do you honestly think a guy from Connecticut that moved to California is going to have come into contact with racially charged songs from the Deep South?

There are things known as coincidence and when you have the words, "zip" and "day" in two songs that is hardly proof that one sprang from the other. Frankly the word day is so common you really can't include that so you have one unique word, "zip" used in two songs, the reality is your mind is not going to be changed because you want to believe that a person is guilty until proven innocent. I prefer to believe a person is innocent until proven guilty. So go ahead and condemn people with no evidence, and just pray no one does the same to you.
 
Smiley/OCD

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
DubyooDeeDubyoo said:
I have a few thoughts.

Despite my handle here, I'm a Californian by birth and have spent probably more hours at Disneyland than Magic Kingdom (and I've only ever been on two trips to Orlando total.) I think this renovation could be very good in Disneyland. DL is a park that occasionally resorts to awkward visual barriers to keep lands from clashing TOO much, and while they don't do too much to separate the Mansion from Chickapin Hill they do use some obstructive trees when the exteriors could look closer to a match. Being able to extend New Orleans Square's design from the city to the bayou adjacent to the Columbia landing is a thing that makes me happy to think about.

Splash felt like a square peg in a round hole at MK, and it's going to require even more atmospheric work as part of the old south. I would actually hold off on changing MK's ride until the money is found for more extensive work. It's not like the whole mountain needs to come down, but the area looks a little too rustic.

I have never seen Song of the South or Princess and the Frog, but as my west-coast upbringing leaves me with no feels for Horizons or Journey Into Imagination except envy, this one hurts like few closures do. Most people's reactions seem to be cut along whether one is more interested in booking a visit around the old theme's closure, or the new theme's open. I'll admit I'm of the former, but mostly due to my increasing cynicism around the company's leadership. It's nice to see Tony Baxter get one last rodeo to fix his most problematic legacy ride, even if he's not super-involved, but Disneyland lost a fantastic Tomorrowland on an underfunded mandate to change that had Tony's name affixed to it. He's an excellent Imagineer but even he was not a miracle worker, and Splash is a concrete behemoth that will give that masoleum vibe if all the physical props and AAs are replaced with projections and screens.
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I actually don't envy Tony Baxter right now...he's either going to go out with a last hurrah, as the savior that made PatF a monumental hit attraction, or the company's scapegoat if the attraction is an AA-less, screen filled flop.
 
T

thomas998

Well-Known Member
Flugell said:
Please forgive me, I’m trying to read my way through this thread and am currently on page 138! It seems to be growing faster than I can read and I’m a quick reader but just wanted to add my ideas from what I’ve surmised so far.
Far from seeing 2 opposing views I think there are three and can appreciate all of them.
1. The people of all diversities who accept that Splash Mountain needs to be eradicated because of the long established connection to the film Song of the South and the unacceptable view of African Americans as portrayed in that film.
2. The people of all diversities who wish to retain Splash Mountain as a truly great ride and feel that the connection to the film is tenuous because of the way the ride has been imagined.
3. The people of all diversities who acknowledge the racist overtones within the ride but feel that retaining it, with education about the historical context of the story and the celebration of the African American oral story telling culture, could be of more benefit to people of all diversities in giving a greater understanding of the past and what needs to change going forward.
In my opinion each have some merit though given a choice I’d vote for number 3!
I have never seen Princess and the Frog (I’m 62 years old so a little old for Princess movies) but feel that the idea of replacing a racially sensitive ride with a “token” black princess could be regarded as patronising. Think- we’ve got rid of Song of the South and given “them” (the public) Tiana, that should stop the moaning for a bit. Or maybe I’m just old and twisted but feel that Disney’s first black Princess deserves better than to be a band aid over the problematical Splash Mountain.
Click to expand...
The bottom line is Tiana was a poor choice for a black Disney princess. She is really nothing more than a copy of Cinderella with different colored skin and hair. At least when you see Mulan or Moana you can tell that they tried to capture some sense of the ethnicity of the character. Tiana is more of an insult, it is as if Mattel decided to make black barbies by just changing the color of the plastic and color of the hair... Quite pathetic, yet I'm sure it was easier for Disney to do it that way than to try and develop a real character representative to the black girls in America
 
B

Bleed0range

Well-Known Member
thomas998 said:
I'm quite aware of how songs are written, I started my life as music major in undergrad... so I'm pretty sure I know much more than you could ever imagine about music, music theory and how songs are written. There is no evidence that the one song came from another.

Your problem is that like all the other woke warriors you went out looking to find a connection to slavery and racism and guess what... if you look for something hard enough you'll manage to convince yourself that something exist when the fact is it is only in our imagination. There has NEVER been any real evidence that lyricist of the song ever heard of the other one. Do you honestly think a guy from Connecticut that moved to California is going to have come into contact with racially charged songs from the Deep South?

There are things known as coincidence and when you have the words, "zip" and "day" in two songs that is hardly proof that one sprang from the other. Frankly the word day is so common you really can't include that so you have one unique word, "zip" used in two songs, the reality is your mind is not going to be changed because you want to believe that a person is guilty until proven innocent. I prefer to believe a person is innocent until proven guilty. So go ahead and condemn people with no evidence, and just pray no one does the same to you.
Click to expand...

I dunno why you’re calling me a “woke warrior” or whatever nonsense. I never even said a word about changing the ride. I’m merely reacting to the reality that it is changing and I’m saying I think it’s a good thing. I’m pretty sure there’s a connection here and you can argue for it just as easily as against.
 
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