Spirited Spring Break News, Observations & Thoughts ...

[WDW1974]

I'm a muppets fan and still have not seen it. The plot of the movie looked cheesy (well, it is the muppets after all...), but what really made me just not put the effort into going was how bad the marketing was for it. The marketing didn't make me WANT to go see the movie. It made it look like an ok muppet showcase, but nothing special like the last movie.

It's a decent film. Certainly quality. Not nearly as good as the reboot two years ago.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Gringotts will probably have more wind blowing in your face due to the speed of the vehicles, so that might help with the motion sickness part (I think fans were either added or are being planned for FJ too, so there's probably some improvement there too). Don't know for sure but i'd imagine they've made some improvements to Gringotts based on the complaints they had from Forbidden Journey. It also depends on how well synchronized the speed of the ride is compared to the speed of the projected video.

I think one of the tricks to creating a decently sickness free simulator is to better equalize the feeling of the physical movement with what is occurring onscreen. You have to be made to feel like you're moving at the same speed (with the same physical effects on your body) as what is being projected, through the movement of the vehicle as well as the wind hitting your face. The motion sickness in these types of rides I honestly think comes from your brain having expected a different physical effect from what is actually occurring onscreen. It causes disorientation when you look like you're going faster than you actually are.

Even on some of the older omnimovers Disney used to make with projection tunnels (such as the "speedy" segments in World of Motion or Dreamflight), my mom would have to close her eyes to prevent feeling ill. And it wasn't because the projection was that intense, it was because the speed of the vehicles didn't match what was onscreen and caused disorientation.

My wife will close her eyes in the EAC section of The Seas with Nemo and Friends at times. I speculate that a fastly moving vehicle through a more detailed setup is what we're talking about with Gringotts?

 

[WDW1974]

74 speaks the truth. There are those within the ranks of Creative, and many of those that are no longer working for Creative, that are a little tired of the reliance on video screens as the center of Universal’s attraction roster. Just like the original FJ concept, Gringotts started out as a nicely balanced ride that included a judicious mix of video and practical sets/show action and effects. Due to the very same reasons FJ suffered the loss of multiple practical, illusion/effect-based scenes Gringotts has become about 85% screen-based. Once again I need to qualify this with a great big – THIS RIDE WILL STILL BE A LOT OF FUN AND MANY WILL FIND IT TO BE SPECTACULAR. Please remember the following comes from someone who has been working on the project for several years now and therefore may see this from a very different perspective than many of you.

The screen-based argument is not a simple issue. The first thing to consider is that show action, AAs, and other types of practical effects can be extremely costly to maintain. When the consumables estimates are done during the design phases for example this is all taken into account. There are currently four LN2 based effects in Gringotts that fire off about every 30 seconds and that adds up to a pretty penny. Another example would be the Goblin AAs that include multiple functions and controls and require an expensive stock of spare parts and tech. services man-hours to perform PMs and maintenance. Not to mention the figure finish and QA. Now multiply the number of AAs and other mechanical show systems and we are talking a massive annual budget just to maintain these components. This is a factor in the decision to rely more upon Video for sure and it gives those in the current upper echelons of the Creative offices ammunition to make their case to the financial decision makers.

I understand all the foregoing but my main issue here is that Creative is not fighting for more “magic” and practical show elements but would rather maintain the status quo. Movie/Video is what certain upper level Creative executive are comfortable with and they really don’t have a full understanding of the theme park medium (at least what some of us would call the “old school” version of theme parks). I know that sounds crazy..that those in charge with conceptualizing the main attractions for a mega theme park company like Universal don’t understand theme park dark rides and attractions but just look at some of their backgrounds and how they talk in the meetings. An argument could be made that they are reinventing the theme park attraction experience and if that is a valid argument I guess I could say I much prefer “old school.” I’m not going to go into the reasons why here because I’ve done it In other posts and certainly many others have also. I would love to see a much more even balance of video and practical but so far we are losing that battle mainly due to the two reasons I’ve outlined in this post: Cost and a design philosophy/laziness.

Yes a budget needs to be worked up and adhered to in order to ensure the financial success of any project. What is wrong in this case is that they barely even care to work with the existing budget and adjust the concept because of ignorance. They feel the attraction will be successful (which it will be of course) using the tried and true formula (Spiderman, Transformers, Simpsons). I hate to bring it up and I can hear the groans virtually as I type but…Tokyo Disney somehow manages to budget full-fledged AA shows and rides and keep them in 100 percent working order. Please don’t tell me it’s just because they are in Japan because supposedly Florida’s Magic Kingdom gate revenue is larger than TDL. I have seen similar quality at Hong Kong Disney. Mystic Manor is a fantastic recent example of a balanced use of video and practical that is elaborate, impressive and very well maintained. So the examples are out there if anyone at Universal would like to see.

I’ve also pointed out many times how much visitors will be amazed when they tour Diagon Alley and ride the Hogwarts Express and Gringotts. It is a fantastic land and perhaps these, what some would call, minor criticisms will be forgotten once it opens and people see it for themselves. There are some jaw-dropping sets and details that will satisfy theme park fans and tourists. Gringotts is really BIG and the scene 7 finale will be exciting. Hogwarts Express to me will become one of the “classics” which should prove to anyone that I’m not completely against video. In the HE case the video is balanced with some practical sets, effects, and not to mention the way the video is being utilized is innovative. So I'm not saying Diagon will be bad obviously. My purpose in writing this is to echo what 74 is saying as well as educate some on what could be an even more exciting Universal future if the right people wake up and start questioning Creative’s design strategy and philosophy.

In summary I can't wait for you guys to see Diagon and the many wonders it has to offer but I’m also disappointed that we are only seeing a percentage of the potential it could have been. It’s true that every project team has criticisms and most visitors will never know or even care about what they might be missing when experiencing these new attractions. But that is the beauty of the internet. In this case it’s allowing me to express my concerns anomalously in the hopes that the message will reach the right ear and make someone think before the next project concept is locked down. At the very least maybe a few Universal visitors will mention it in one of those surveys they take.

Great post from da inside.

Thanks for dropping in. ... and I do hope people wake up and question the design strategy and philosophy at UC before they stop innovating and get into a rut, much like Disney has here.

Interesting view on Mystic Manor. I have yet to talk to one industry person who doesn't feel that it is the epitome of what a family friendly immersive 21st century dark ride should be. But what WDI MUST do for the Chinese isn't what happens in the swamps of Central Florida.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

You think that Walt Disney would favor going backwards in building attractions? Kiddie coasters have been done to death. And the AAs on this attraction appear to be static figures with projections (a la Buzz Lightyear). I'm seeing a nice little C-Ticket attraction.

Projected faces yes (for what it's worth I will admit that besides perhaps something being off about Dopey, the projected faces actually look surprisingly decent for what they are despite my general dislike of projected faces), but no the figures aren't static. By static, i'm assuming you mean no motion at all like a few of the original Snow White ride's figures. They aren't ridiculously groundbreaking animatronic figures by any stretch of the imagination like what some lying morons here were and are claiming. They don't come close to touching Hunny Hunt's figures or other good AA's in other classic E Ticket Disney rides (or even something like Ursula from Little Mermaid). But they're most definitely a step above the original Snow White ride's few moving figures in terms of their physical movement.

Give the video a watch if you've a spare 25 seconds or so. Any way you look at them, they're not "static" figures like many of the old Snow White ride's characters were (and they've also got substantially smoother and better motion than the figures that DID move in the original ride). Here's a version of the video that someone re-edited with the actual movie's music (the official video on the Disney site has crappy music not from the movie and i'm sure you don't want to give their official sites any extra hits by watching it on their youtube channel anyways)-

 

[WDW1974]

I could probably write a book with the stuff I've edited out of my posts. The problem is the things I really want to say could make it very easy to identify me so I have to be careful.

I could write multiple books. On everything from WDI dirt to Disney and Florida politicians to Mental Illness and the Disney Fan Community ... rest assured, Disney Legal would be on my in no time, though. So ... like the Wicked Witch, I'll bide my time ...

 

[yeti]

I could write multiple books. On everything from WDI dirt to Disney and Florida politicians to Mental Illness and the Disney Fan Community ... rest assured, Disney Legal would be on my in no time, though. So ... like the Wicked Witch, I'll bide my time ...

"Last edited by a moderator" looks like Disney Legal aren't the only ones

 

[WDW1974]

I just went over and looked at the LP boards. Oh, my. Last one to post turn out the lights, please. But threads like this one remind me of the glory days of LP; witty, smart, informed, opinionated yet urbane discussion about Disney theme parks.

Yes. This is just like a good old-fashioned LP.com thread. I do miss some of my friends from over there who no longer take part in the online community, but I don't blame them.

I don't know why Doobie even keeps the boards, the only one with daily action is World Events.

 

[asianway]

Many were Tweeting pics of the MANY swag items they were being given from Disney and the sponsors and a little birdie told me that 'someone from Disney Social Media' put the word out to not tweet about what they were getting because they know people are watching.

I've looked into the ABD CA backstage tour. That runs around $3500. In comparison, the mommies got more value.

 

[WDW1974]

"Last edited by a moderator" looks like Disney Legal aren't the only ones

Someone here doesn't like my, admittedly, childish fanboi joke lines ...

 

[Next Big Thing]

Even then that wouldn't stand up, the carousel, spaceship earth, flying carpets etc

People keep saying Spaceship earth, but it's just not true. Yes, you can walk around the entrance and exit, but the entirety of the space that the ride takes up is how far the leg supports extend. You can't walk around all of those unless you are cast.

 

[WDW1974]

Holy Jesus. Look at all the parasites in that banquet room. I had no idea it was that bad.

It's worse.

 

[ParentsOf4]

The more I think about Cabana Bay, the less impressed I become. Not with the theming, which is top-notch. And not with the amenities, which are plentiful and unexpected at a motel of this level.

No, the issue is value from the actual room. And this is one where I can see a legit argument being made for Disney's AoA over CB. Size and having two bathrooms give AoA a huge advantage in the family suite category. Cabana Bay is more like a Hyatt Place or Spring Hill Suites by Marriott, a larger hotel room/studio. Larger than a budget hotel room, not larger than a real one. For instance, the room I stayed in at Portofino Bay is larger than a Cabana Bay suite (500 vs. 430 square feet). So, I'd view the Cabana Bay product as a 'gap' product, it isn't AoA, but it isn't a value product like at Disney or a full suite. ... I think it is just that, a gap product.

As you allude to, at 430 sq. ft. a Cabana Bay "Family Suite" is more like a room at a Comfort Suites:

At 565 sq ft, the Art of Animation Family Suite is larger:

However, the two are at very different price points.

For example, this Thanksgiving, an AOA Family Suite is $371/night ($0.66/sq. ft.) whereas an CBR Family Suite is $234/night ($0.54/sq. ft.).

 

[WDW1974]

What practical effects and scenes did FJ lose? As someone who only knows the final product, I'd say the ride is a "judicious mix of video and practical."

It's also, by most accounts, a top-five theme park attraction in the world. It's hard for me to lament what the ride could've been, when it's been so universally acclaimed.

I prefer to reserve the "could've beens" for rides like Dudley Do Right or Expedition Everest. Rides that fail to impress, in other words. I've never not been impressed as I've stepped off FJ.

If Gringotts is as impressive as FJ, then we'll be talking about another attraction on the short list of best theme park attractions. Even if it's "just" a solid E-ticket, it's a success.

I was blown away when I first rode FJ. I still am, largely. It amazes from the queue to the exit gift shop.

That said, projection-based attractions can often be hell on people with motion sickness. I am not prone to it, but last year (before the projectors were replaced and they had gotten out of focus) the attraction had gotten to the point (much like a coaster when it gets too rough) where I was afraid I wouldn't be able to ride in the future. Out of focus imagery wreaks havoc with equilibrium and it is something an operator must be on top of. Thankfully, UNI has been.

As to ranking FJ, that's just a subjective thing. It's a favorite of mine, but not top five. But I realize it is the cutting edge bar of what can be done today (at least leaving out Mystic Manor, which I haven't experienced yet).

 

[lazyboy97o]

The idea of Florida parks lacking the revenue to do what Tokyo Disney Resort does is ridiculous considering the cost of a day at a Walt Disney World or Universal Orlando Resort theme park will buy you two days at the Tokyo Disney Resort.

 

[WDW1974]

I was a active member at LP.com for over a decade. Sparred many times with jonvn over DCA. But I hardly ever go over there any more. It's hard enough to keep up here and OU.

I think LP.com lost something when Jon was pushed out. Yes, he did argue just for the sake of it ... but there are folks on every/any site (Disney or any other subject you can select) who do likewise.

I did love when he and I were talking about how DCA saved and secured DL's future in Anaheim and it was driving the DCA haters crazy. But at least I believed what I was writing.

 

[WDW1974]

I very strongly disagree. Muppets Most Wanted is the best Muppet movie to date. And it's not a Great Muppet Caper reboot in the slightest possible manner.

It is a good film, but I'd rather not have a giant Muppets debate in the middle of great discussion on current WDW, UNI and Disney Social Media happenings.

 

[WDW1974]

My wife will close her eyes in the EAC section of The Seas with Nemo and Friends at times. I speculate that a fastly moving vehicle through a more detailed setup is what we're talking about with Gringotts?

Not entirely, but yes.

 

[WDW1974]

Projected faces yes (for what it's worth I will admit that besides perhaps something being off about Dopey, the projected faces actually look surprisingly decent for what they are despite my general dislike of projected faces), but no the figures aren't static. By static, i'm assuming you mean no motion at all like a few of the original Snow White ride's figures. They aren't ridiculously groundbreaking animatronic figures by any stretch of the imagination like what some lying morons here were and are claiming. They don't come close to touching Hunny Hunt's figures or other good AA's in other classic E Ticket Disney rides (or even something like Ursula from Little Mermaid). But they're most definitely a step above the original Snow White ride's few moving figures in terms of their physical movement.

Give the video a watch if you've a spare 25 seconds or so. Any way you look at them, they're not "static" figures like many of the old Snow White ride's characters were (and they've also got substantially smoother and better motion than the figures that DID move in the original ride). Here's a version of the video that someone re-edited with the actual movie's music (the official video on the Disney site has crappy music not from the movie and i'm sure you don't want to give their official sites any extra hits by watching it on their youtube channel anyways)-

Thanks, but I don't want to watch anything I intend to experience. It blows the fun.

But, that said, it sounds like Buzz Lightyear type AAs is what we are getting and those are not overly advanced, let alone cutting edge etc. ... The fact they may be better than the mannequins with motion that we had in the old dark ride doesn't do very much for me.

 

[WDW1974]

As you allude to, at 430 sq. ft. a Cabana Bay "Family Suite" is more like a room at a Comfort Suites:

View attachment 51228

At 565 sq ft, the Art of Animation Family Suite is larger:

View attachment 51229

However, the two are at very different price points.

For example, this Thanksgiving, an AOA Family Suite is $371/night ($0.66/sq. ft.) whereas an CBR Family Suite is $234/night ($0.54/sq. ft.).

Yes, there is no doubt that CB beats AoA on price.

But Portofino Bay beats Disney Deluxe resorts on price all the time. I paid $50 (almost free as we Faux Top One Percenters prefer), but the least expensive regular rate was $321 (which I am quite sure was better than any Disney deluxe for the same dates) and there were AP/FLA resident/AAA discounts and even a lower walk-up rate (Disney doesn't have those as it doesn't want any guest filling a room that hasn't booked in advance thru its call centers/online/TAs).

 

[WDW1974]

The idea of Florida parks lacking the revenue to do what Tokyo Disney Resort does is ridiculous considering the cost of a day at a Walt Disney World or Universal Orlando Resort theme park will buy you two days at the Tokyo Disney Resort.

Until the last decade, TDR was a dirty little secret that TWDC's P&R Division worked very hard to keep hidden.

Even now, it may publicize new attractions and the like, but it doesn't really want people to know what a true TDR visit offers in terms of quality, offerings, and, most importantly, value for vacation dollars spent.