Spirited Spring Break News, Observations & Thoughts ...

[Jeffxz]

We really need a "required reading" list for these forums with the graduate level financial dissertations going on.

Gotta start with "Disneywar."

Anyone else have any business, guest service or Disney books that are a must read?

While it's not a book, this article is one of my favorites describing how the company was once run.

http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2012/09/how-it-was-done-part-one.html

 

[Omnispace]

You are applying a simple adjustment for inflation, but not all products and services "inflate" at the same rate. Adjusted for inflation, the cost of a 1st class stamp and a bottle/can of coke have remained constant. The cost of food staples has gone down. Movie prices however have increased 4x the inflation rate since the 1970's. Concert and Sporting Event tickets have also exceeded inflation by many multiples. The median home in 1971 was $17,200, adjusted for inflation that would be $100,000 today. The actual median home today is $212,000.

In 1971, admission and a basic ticket book cost $5.75. At $30 a night, the cost of a resort hotel room would be roughly 5 times the cost of a single day ticket.
In 2014, single day adult admission is $99. A room at $600 is 6 times the admission price.
So while both admission and resort prices have climbed about 3 times faster than inflation since 1971, the relative cost to each other has remained constant and the costs have risen similar to other forms of entertainment. When you consider package deals including multi-day tickets, meal plans, extended hours, more rides in parks since 1971, one could argue that the cost of a Disney World vacation has increased less than other types of entertainment.

Not at all trying to justify that WDW is not expensive, simply pointing out that a relative comparison of prices is different from an absolute comparison.

Definitely there are going to be some things that are more a burden on people's finances and some less. I suppose another relevant comparison would be what people earn to pay for all these things.

 

[Kman101]

Reading that now and Card Walker has a great quote

"We don't have profit centers. We have experience centers. Profit comes if the experience is right."

And from Jack Lindquist

"We look at Disneyland or WDW on the bottom line. The total. If a restaurant doesn't make it but a customer needs it, we'll make up for the loss somewhere else."

 

[coolbeans14]

What argument would you like to see?

No argument! Just take my lunch money! We can all be friends here!

 

[asianway]

How much does the average lifestyle blogger clear? Must be a good living if they are recruiting "talent" from each other

 

[Goofyernmost]

Sorry to disagree but I don't think Bay Lake Tower is all that great. Makes me think of something you would see at Marina Del Rey...

That's not Photoshopped.

If one can really see any similarity between that ugliness and this...

Would make me think that I must need to get my eyes checked.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Look at the freakin' videos of when they built Contemporary. It was a huge undertaking. It was innovative, daring, expensive, grand, and it wasnt easy. Thats why it stands the test of time. Ive seen and been to the Contemporary a million times, but it never fails when I return and lay eyes on it, it takes my breath away, just for a moment. Its iconic, im comforted by its presence. then I see BLT and throw up in my mouth a bit. jk

Actually all reports indicated that it was much easier then conventional building. Build a frame, place prefabricated rooms, furnished and wired in predetermined drawers and you have a building, was certainly unique for it's time, but not as complicated, after initial calculations, as stick building.

 

[71jason]

We really need a "required reading" list for these forums with the graduate level financial dissertations going on.

Gotta start with "Disneywar."

Anyone else have any business, guest service or Disney books that are a must read?

The Carl Hiassen book on Disney. Forget the name now, probably out of print.

Looked it up: "Team Rodent".

 

[PhotoDave219]

How much does the average lifestyle blogger clear? Must be a good living if they are recruiting "talent" from each other

Talkin about attractions & Dis?

 

[Omnispace]

If one can really see any similarity between that ugliness and this...
View attachment 53038
Would make me think that I must need to get my eyes checked.

Who said the Marina Del Rey buildings were ugly?

 

[ParentsOf4]

You are applying a simple adjustment for inflation, but not all products and services "inflate" at the same rate. Adjusted for inflation, the cost of a 1st class stamp and a bottle/can of coke have remained constant. The cost of food staples has gone down. Movie prices however have increased 4x the inflation rate since the 1970's. Concert and Sporting Event tickets have also exceeded inflation by many multiples. The median home in 1971 was $17,200, adjusted for inflation that would be $100,000 today. The actual median home today is $212,000.

In 1971, admission and a basic ticket book cost $5.75. At $30 a night, the cost of a resort hotel room would be roughly 5 times the cost of a single day ticket.
In 2014, single day adult admission is $99. A room at $600 is 6 times the admission price.
So while both admission and resort prices have climbed about 3 times faster than inflation since 1971, the relative cost to each other has remained constant and the costs have risen similar to other forms of entertainment. When you consider package deals including multi-day tickets, meal plans, extended hours, more rides in parks since 1971, one could argue that the cost of a Disney World vacation has increased less than other types of entertainment.

Not at all trying to justify that WDW is not expensive, simply pointing out that a relative comparison of prices is different from an absolute comparison.

Definitely there are going to be some things that are more a burden on people's finances and some less. I suppose another relevant comparison would be what people earn to pay for all these things.

What's happened to the price of a WDW vacation has little relationship to inflation or the cost of other goods.

What's happened to all WDW prices is represented by this:

WDW's increasingly aggressive prices reflect changes in management philosophy more than anything else.

Until the mid-1990s, WDW was still run by those who cut their teeth under Walt & Roy Disney, Card Walker, and Donn Tatum.

The "Walt Disney" management philosophy was to offer paying customers "good value" for their money. Walt was no angel but he really did believe in providing his customers with value, and those who knew and worked for him honored that while they remained.

By the mid-1990s, the remaining elements of WDW's Old Guard had been forced out by Michael Eisner and Frank Wells. This move was intentional. Eisner and Wells viewed those old-school Disney managers as hindrances to profit expansion.

By the late 1990s, management philosophy had shifted to position WDW as a premium vacation destination, and to price the resort accordingly. It was around this time that quality cuts started in earnest.

When Iger took control in 2005, there once again was a shift in management philosophy.

Today, the philosophy is to charge "whatever the market will bear" or, as it's sometimes called internally, "price leveraging". Today, the company pursues aggressive quality cuts, sometimes inaccurately referred to as "value engineering" on these threads. Today, the focus is on finding ways to cheapen the product while pursuing even more aggressive price increases.

Today's price of a WDW vacation has little relationship to inflation or Median Household Income. Instead, it's reflective of a devolution in Disney corporate leadership from those who believed in what once was called "The Disney Difference" to those who believe in extracting every last cent possible from paying customers.

Among old-time WDW employees, the phrase "The Disney Difference" has become something of a painful joke.

 

[asianway]

Talkin about attractions & Dis?

God almighty. Think these guys comply with all PR laws?

 

[CDavid]

If one can really see any similarity between that ugliness and this...
View attachment 53038
Would make me think that I must need to get my eyes checked.

I'd be making an optometrist appointment then, because there is far more than just a passing similarity.

And they're both ugly.

 

[Bairstow]

What's happened to the price of a WDW vacation has little relationship to inflation or the cost of other goods.

What's happened to all WDW prices is represented by this:

Yikes. I hadn't realized how big the jumps since 2001 had been.

What's the Y-axis scale for MHI?

 

[flynnibus]

And from Jack Lindquist

that spirit is killed when you make everything into fiefdoms that compete and operate independently of each other. There are no 'loss leaders' or 'sharing of burden' when you are in silos

 

[ParentsOf4]

Yikes. I hadn't realized how big the jumps since 2001 had been.

What's the Y-axis scale for MHI?

As mentioned in the title, MHI / 1000.

Essentially, for its first 25-30 years, the price of a one-day WDW ticket was about 1/1000th of Median Household Income.

All WDW ticket types show similar pricing patterns.

Relative to family income, WDW ticket prices remained constant to family income until the late 1990s.

The chart looks similar for inflation or CPI.

As I suggested earlier in my post that started this particular exchange, WDW has never been a cheap vacation. Even when relative prices were much lower in the 1970s and 1980s, most families had to save to pay for WDW. People who remember WDW being expensive 40 years ago are not imagining it. However, it's much more expensive today.

In recent years, price increases have become considerably more aggressive. Comparing families of similar means in the 1970s to today, it's much more difficult for today's typical family to afford WDW.

It's a want, not a need. Disney can charge whatever they feel is justified by the market. I'm simply noting that the current trend cannot continue forever. At some point, Disney needs to focus on adding value back into the parks rather than focus most of its attention on squeezing pennies from its paying customers.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Who said the Marina Del Rey buildings were ugly?

I did!

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm indifferent to the design. Does it take away from the CR, yes. But what worked for me was great room (2br with Lake view), nice pool area (best slide on property if speed is your thing), the convenience of walking to and from the MK, easy monorail access, and great views. Add all those things together and design and placement suddenly didn't seem so important. But I understand people not liking it.

The difference is you enjoyed a stay there. I think some people have a hard time separating their hatred for DVC from the look of the hotel. IMHO if BLT was just another wing of CR there would be less complaining about it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

that spirit is killed when you make everything into fiefdoms that compete and operate independently of each other. There are no 'loss leaders' or 'sharing of burden' when you are in silos

This! Walt Disney World is not a singular place but a region populated by many competing businesses.

 

[Omnispace]

As mentioned in the title, MHI / 1000.

Essentially, for its first 25-30 years, the price of a one-day ticket was about 1/1000th of Median Household Income.

All WDW ticket types show similar pricing patterns.

Relative to family income, WDW ticket prices remained constant to family income until the late 1990s.

The chart looks similar for inflation or CPI.

As I suggested earlier in my post that started this particular exchange, WDW has never been a cheap vacation. Even when relative prices were much lower in the 1970s and 1980s, most families had to save to pay for WDW. People who remember WDW being expensive 40 years ago are not imagining it. However, it's much more expensive today.

In recent years, price increases have become considerably more aggressive. Comparing families of similar means in the 1970s to today, it's much more difficult for today's typical family to afford WDW.

It's a want, not a need. Disney can charge whatever they feel is justified by the market. I'm simply noting that the current trend cannot continue forever. At some point, Disney needs to focus on adding value back into the parks rather than focus most of its attention on squeezing pennies from its paying customers.

Perhaps even more disturbing than the way the Ticket price line is curving upward -- that Medium Household Income line is curving downward...!

I think that someone was saying that one-day tickets prices were increasing greater than multi-day tickets as an incentive for guests to stay longer. Doesn't diminish the point of your argument though.