Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts Tres

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stevehousse

Well-Known Member
Could you imagine if the "original" Disney cruise ship ever came to fruition!!!

Not sure if any of you know more about this, but Disney wanted to basically make a floating magic kingdom abourd a cruise ship with rides throughout the ship! I know there are plans of this on some site, but have to do some digging again!
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Could you imagine if the "original" Disney cruise ship ever came to fruition!!!

Not sure if any of you know more about this, but Disney wanted to basically make a floating magic kingdom abourd a cruise ship with rides throughout the ship! I know there are plans of this on some site, but have to do some digging again!


Way too many operational concerns with that, but yes, I am familiar with the concept.

They did best, starting with the Big Red Boat, and then branching off and allowing the brand to build organically. I suspect in the future we'll see more boats (largely others have confirmed this sooner rather than later), more what I term "surf and turf"...though they call "land and sea" adventures tying in their various global Disney properties, and tie in's in their Disney Adventures concepts.

The cruise line is the glue that binds all these various things together, at least that's how I suspect Disney is going to develop it.

What's next? A universal partnership with Virgin for the "big red plane"?
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
Easy. Disney has many, many properties that don't have the representation in the parks that they deserve. As Studios Fan said quite well, a Jungle Book or Lion King (or both) area at DAK would be fantastic – and at a fraction of the cost that Avatar would cost.

Instead, TWDCo will spend $500 million + on the construction of a property they don't own and will probably spend millions on gaining the rights to the property. What's worse, is people fear this property doesn't actually have "legs". Yes, it was one of the biggest money producers in movie history, but how many people can actually name two characters from it? It isn't like SW, Indiana Jones or Harry Potter. It hasn't left nearly the lasting impression or had the staying power that those properties have.

And for that kind of money, they need to be guaranteed that people will actually plan their vacations to visit the attraction. I don't see many people who would drawn to WDW for Avatar, Once again, even worse is the fact that the attraction may just be Soarin' pt.2.

Oh, and it doesn't fit thematically with DAK very well, either.

We can't get a MI coaster for DHS but we can get a $500 million area based on Avatar? There's something terribly, terribly wrong with that.

I'm convinced a MI/BK hybrid project would be bigger than Avatar, and it has little to do with the IP. If Avatar is cool, if the theme is mindblowing, the IP won't matter.

I really think The Mummy movies were terrible. TERRIBLE. I can't name a single character in that film, but I LOVE that ride.

I do think IP matters in some cases, though. Before the Harry Potter deal was made, The Forbidden Journey attraction was going to be themed to the Van Helsing movie. If UNI would have went ahead with the Van Helsing attraction before overlaying it with Harry Potter, it would have had nowhere near the impact that the WWOHP had. Not even close. But had FJ been built as the VH ride, it would still have been a killer ride. There's no doubt in my mind. VH was an awful movie and not that big of a blockbuster... I think it made money.

My point is, at the end of the day, if it's a great ride, great theme, the experience is awesomne, that should be the only thing that matters to us. We can't change Avatar coming to the park, all you can do at this point is hope it's fantastic. You do make a good point that, in regards to WDW, the suits really have no idea what to do with the parks. Avatar makes sense to them, but not to us. I get that.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
In order for anyone to want to "see Avatar" it will have to be open first. That attitude from the general public may come when the ads start running for it, but that's four years away, and Disney will have to suffer from its lack of new attractions in the mean time.
I can't completely agree with that. In order for people to care about Avatar they first must know what it is. Unlike HP the franchise is not universally known. It may be alright, I don't know. Just from what I have seen here and read here it has not sparked even the slightest amount of interest in me. To me it's just random Sci-Fi!
 

StageFrenzy

Well-Known Member
I'm convinced a MI/BK hybrid project would be bigger than Avatar, and it has little to do with the IP. If Avatar is cool, if the theme is mindblowing, the IP won't matter.

I really think The Mummy movies were terrible. TERRIBLE. I can't name a single character in that film, but I LOVE that ride.

I do think IP matters in some cases, though. Before the Harry Potter deal was made, The Forbidden Journey attraction was going to be themed to the Van Helsing movie. If UNI would have went ahead with the Van Helsing attraction before overlaying it with Harry Potter, it would have had nowhere near the impact that the WWOHP had. Not even close. But had FJ been built as the VH ride, it would still have been a killer ride. There's no doubt in my mind. VH was an awful movie and not that big of a blockbuster... I think it made money.

My point is, at the end of the day, if it's a great ride, great theme, the experience is awesomne, that should be the only thing that matters to us.

Agree! At the end of the day, If you build it and it is awesome they will come no matter the IP. IP IS NOT EVERYTHING! That being said if they value engineer Avatar it will suck.
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Why do people keep obsessing about this? This isn't the first time or last time Disney will use an IP that wasn't theirs! I just don't get why you get butt hurt about it! As long as it produces a good ride or attraction I'm all for it! At the end of the day I don't care who owns it...

yeah getting tired of this argument..people need to let it go and give it a chance...i do think one of the biggest issues is its taking forever (even though they said 2013) and people dont have a clue what it will entail
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Avatar has a ton of potential. Long term, with theme parks, it is the quality of the attraction/land that matters. If WWoHP sucked, attendance would drop after a year or two. I think there are only a handful of IPs that would boost attendance
and that lasts for only the initial opening. After that, it is all quality of the attraction land. If some company opened a Star Trek area, I would be there in a heart beat. If that land only featured an attraction called, "Conversations with Chekov" I may never go back. If that land featured a good e, a solid c, and a nice show, the rest of my family that doesn't give a crap about Trek wouldn't mind going back. I have the same fear with Avatar that I would have with BK, Australia, or CMM being made into a real land based on that theme perhaps featuring a ride with the canonical big 5...and it is simply this - will TDO blow it? Avatar is a spectacle movie, and as such lends itself visually and thematically to DAK, but you have to go big. You also have to make sure that the conservation theme, respecting indigenous cultures, extinction fears etc. from the movie gets tied in with the rest of the park and that it doesn't dominate the park. I have another sub-fear and it is more complex. We've all seen reports that JC and JR don't get along. Based on what I can glean from their respective personalities, I worry that the look of the land and how it is tied in with the rest of DAK will be really odd, and make perfect sense to them while the rest of us will be going, ? It sounds mutually exclusive, but you can have a visually stunning land that has a couple of solid attractions, but doesn't dominate the rest of the park. Carsland shows me that people in Disney are up to the task. Can they do it at WDW though? Regardless, I hope there are actual plans for us to discuss from D23. If there aren't, I may have no WDW internetz presence ever again. It if fun and I like all of you with one exception
paranoid.gif
, but restaurant and toilet updates can only keep a guy chugging along for so long. (I am well aware of the fact that the mine train coaster has been under construction for ever now, but dear lord man).....
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Checkov 1.0 or Checkov 2.0? Or is that what makes or breaks the attraction?


In this instance, I prefer the original. If you asked me which Spock to choose, I would eventually get fired from my job as I fretted........I'm not really sure what would make or break the attraction. If it had the same script as "Great Moments with Lincoln" that probably wouldn't work.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
Mr. Spirit Dear, can you possibly shed light as to why Disney Cruise Line is shifting so many itineraries for the Dream, Magic, & Wonder in late 2014? They're changing the usual Dream Sunday & Thursday departures to Monday & Friday. The Fantasy will stick with her usual Saturday rotation. They're pulling the Magic up from Miami to Port Canaveral (putting 3 ships sailing from PC again) and switching bookings for the Magic out of Miami to the Wonder out of Miami. ((We've got a recent placeholder booking for the Magic out of Miami that we received notification about.)) I can't imagine that they would go thru all this mess of modifying itineraries, changing over bookings, etc. if there wasn't a good reason to do it. Wonder what the driving force in this itinerary shift is. I can't imagine it'd be something small considering how many people would be potentially effected by making a bunch of changes with the ships and sail dates.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
Mr. Spirit Dear, can you possibly shed light as to why Disney Cruise Line is shifting so many itineraries for the Dream, Magic, & Wonder in late 2014? They're changing the usual Dream Sunday & Thursday departures to Monday & Friday. The Fantasy will stick with her usual Saturday rotation. They're pulling the Magic up from Miami to Port Canaveral (putting 3 ships sailing from PC again) and switching bookings for the Magic out of Miami to the Wonder out of Miami. ((We've got a recent placeholder booking for the Magic out of Miami that we received notification about.)) I can't imagine that they would go thru all this mess of modifying itineraries, changing over bookings, etc. if there wasn't a good reason to do it. Wonder what the driving force in this itinerary shift is. I can't imagine it'd be something small considering how many people would be potentially effected by making a bunch of changes with the ships and sail dates.
im going out on a limb but I think they are seeing a healthy booking pace from locals on that Friday 3 night. You can be local and not take a vacation day. "Looks like were gonna need a bigger boat"
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
The first one I watched was the Disney Cruise Line: Behind the Magic documentary focusing on primarily the Dream and Fantasy showcasing the ships' majestic charms and offerings and what not. Basically a full detailed overview of these recently new ships. This is a brand new documentary as it just debuted today on that channel.

Haven't seen this one! I need to find it so I can see, too! I've been on both new ships now so I just want to watch so I can get the butterflies in my belly some more. I'm such a sentimental loser. LOL!


The documentary featured much commentary from Karl Holz (who's up in age), Joe Lanzisero, Jim Urry, and Lisa Migliorati with occasional comments from Staggs and some other imagineers I'm not familiar with. O and even an appearance from the weatherman at the end. Just by watching this on my tv, I was in awe by the scope in detail and size of these ships. They truly seem great and one of the main points/emphasis in this show was the fact that these ships had something to offer for everyone be it the oceaneers club for little kids, game lounges and outdoor sports courts for teens, or spas for adults just to name a few. I was also truly amazed at the extra little details that are onboard those ships like the interactive art/animation on the ships, the portholes,etc.

I was the anti-cruise girl my whole life. Took Disney to get me to even consider it. It's amazing that a ship can have so much going on all the time. Truly, something for everyone. You can have just as active a vacation as running parks or as relaxing and anti-commando as you want all in the same day. It's all right there at your fingertips. I never imagined a cruise could offer so much more than food at every turn. It really is amazing how so much detail can drip & ooze from every crevice of a ship. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the design of the ships truly showcases what Disney is renowned for. Attention to detail on so many levels. It's incredible. It's Disney fangurl crack.


Lastly, how could I forget the cast members which leads me to my main point. A while back, Spirit went in depth about the great service he recieved on his DCL voyage on the Wonder. Well I can see why he would want to commend DCL on that front and as usual, he knows what he's talking about. These cast members really seem to provide guests with great '5 star like' service and truly care about their guests by making sure they have the best Disney Cruise experience possible.

Spirit and I have discussed it a bit in the past, how going on a Disney cruise reminds me so much of what the legendary WDW service once was. People say all the time that WDW is fine, the service is fine. It's not. Go on a Disney cruise and experience the difference. I remembered things I had long since forgotten. If you can imagine the exemplary service you get on the Disney cruises applied throughout WDW you'd understand more clearly why people have such high standards for Disney, why many people are disgusted at the current state of service at WDW, and just how far TDO has allowed the overall experience to slide over the years. I'm sorry, gadgetry, tech, and frou-frou bracelets will not recapture what once was. Personally, I've written off the possibility of ever having a DCL-service-level vaca at WDW. Not even if I spent for concierge. WDW just doesn't have that in them anymore.


I found it interesting that for the rotational dining, when guests have a certain waiter for breakfast, they also have that same waiter for lunch and dinner as well which really is a great way for the cast to open up/connect with the guests (still can't get out of my mind that they go through 50,000 Ibs of vegetables and 40,000 Ibs of fruit each day). An important thing I took away from the cast was that anytime they went to approach a guest party, they had full eye contact and had big smiles on their faces 24/7. Simply put, they seem to treat you like royalty.

Rotational dining. I love it. Your wait service staff follows you from main dining room to main dining room every night for dinner. It's always the same staff taking care of you at dinner. If you choose to have breakfast or lunch in the main dining rooms that are open you aren't likely to get your same wait staff because they are usually assigned to other positions on the ship during those meals. For instance, our main server was working the walk-up pizza window in the afternoon one day. He told us to wait just a minute, pulled a fresh pizza from the oven, and gave us THAT instead of what was under the warmers. ;) On Castaway Cay day (Disney's private island) many of the usual dinner service team crew will be out working food service on the island. Maaaaany dual-roles. Most all the crew have multi-roles throughout a voyage. What you said about rotational dining facilitating the ability to get to know your service team is soooooo true! We just got off the Fantasy this past Saturday. Our server, Malwyn, we had when we sailed the on the Magic just this past January. Same guy! When he saw us walk in the first dinner restaurant the first night his face was beaming. He remembered us! Hugs for everyone! Without even being asked he brought the husband and sons French onion soup every night because he remembered how they loved it. Many nights when the menus are set for all the dining rooms (like Pirate menu or Captain's Gala menu) special items like that would need to be ordered the night before in order to obtain them. Malwyn KNEW us and was ON IT. We know Malwyn is from India, he has 2 kids 1 of which is an infant that was born right after our January sailing. He's trying to get head server. Also during our Fantasy sailing our server from our very first cruise in September of 2011, Ali, spotted us, made eye contact, then came over to speak to us. He remembered us because of a gift I gave him our last night of that cruise. We were so excited to see him because he had made head server just like he was hoping to. Great guy. Exceptional server. Definitely deserved the bump-up he earned. That's just 2 examples of how you get to know your service staff and how they get to know YOU. You do feel like family. And, I'd like to add, that it's not just the dining room teams that you get to know. We've had a stateroom host twice on separate sailings. He remembered us and was fabulous. One of the concierge staff, Andreia, who took care of us when we had a suite on the Magic in May 2012 was part of the concierge staff when the hubby & I cruised in another suite on the Dream in September 2012. She remembered us and made a huge fuss. AND, we saw Andreia again when we were just on the Fantasy! She was working Guest Services one night. Again, she came out to us, hugs & cheek kisses, like finding a family member unexpectedly. You get to know a lot of the crew especially if you take the time to get to know them. They DO remember their guests and they will treat you like family. I like family better than royalty. I treat my family like royalty so if someone treats me like family, it's better than royalty because they don't HAVE to treat me that way. They WANT to. Does that make sense???


This is the first good disney P&R documentary I've seen in a while, and I perferred this over that DCL Lightship Entertainment documentary which focused on the Magic and Wonder. As someone who hasn't been on a DC yet I can say that after watching this show, it has me strongly considering a voyage (the Dream as of now) in the near future and I'm sure if others watched as well, they'd feel the same as me.:)

I want to see this documentary! Not that I need anymore help lavishing disposable income on DCL (obviously). I just completed my 5th sailing in under 2 years with 4 more currently on the books thru the end of 2014. Just think, this is all $$ I used to throw at WDW. I learned where the bang for my buck is and I'm not looking back! :p


On a final note, the last scene had Karl Holz talking about the future of DCL and he basically said "we here at DCL and the folks over at WDI are always dreaming of new possibilites to better position the DCL business and also better enhance/personalize our guests future experiences onboard our ships" which to me translates to new ships eventually coming at some point, just a matter of when it happens.

Aaaaah...lots of rumors about more ships. Competition is fierce with this. Royal Caribbean ordered a THIRD of their new class of ships. Wowza! I'm not sure what to think with Disney, tho. The Magic, the oldest ship in Disney's fleet, is getting the royal refit this fall. It's looking like the Wonder will get the same treatment next year. DCL just made a shift of schedules and ships with the Dream, Magic, & Wonder for itineraries later in 2014. I'm not sure why. At that time all 4 ships will be back in Florida, 3 sailing out of PC. The way DCL is pulling all 4 back to Florida twice in 2014 (spring & now later fall) creates a lot of questions for me. Why? Are they not selling good enough during these "off" times in different markets (ie. Galveston, New York, LA)? Do they believe they'll have better occupancy with all 4 ships concentrated so close together during those times? Is there some other reason to pull 3 ships to the same departure port??? Other cruise lines are much more diverse in where they sail from and their itineraries aren't always so repetitive. DCL is sorta bad about diversifying their itineraries. If they aren't sending the smaller ships to other markets where they might not be having much luck with occupancy why would they add more ships? Would that really be a wise decision? It'd be that much harder to have 5 or 6 ships sailing out of Florida at any given time which seems to be DCL's go-to with the 4 they have. So many questions!!! LOL!
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
im going out on a limb but I think they are seeing a healthy booking pace from locals on that Friday 3 night. You can be local and not take a vacation day. "Looks like were gonna need a bigger boat"

I figured as much for the Dream. Makes it easy even for non-locals to fly in for a quicky and only miss 1 day of work. I'd be open to doing that multiple times a year. Oh yeah!
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
In this instance, I prefer the original. If you asked me which Spock to choose, I would eventually get fired from my job as I fretted........I'm not really sure what would make or break the attraction. If it had the same script as "Great Moments with Lincoln" that probably wouldn't work.

Great Moments with Mister Spock.

Orrrrrrr.... Great Moments with Bob Saget.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
Nope. It's always a good thing when execs are out and George is a smart guy with a good eye, so he does notice when things are amiss ...now fixing them is another story.


I did notice this past week that you couldn't throw a turkey leg without hitting a Survey person in every park but MK. Lots of questions on wait times, cast friendliness and cleanliness.

The parks were both significantly cleaner and busier than they were in January when I was there.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
DVC is a ticking time bomb waiting to blow up in WDW's face.

From a WDW guest perspective, DVC costs are divided into two parts: purchase price and annual Maintenance Fee (MF). From TWDC's perspective, they make their profits up front as part of the purchase price. MF are supposed to be charged per cost.
DVC exemplifies the problem with corporate Disney's thinking: focus on profits for the next 1-to-3 years instead of developing a long-term plan for sustainable growth. Sacrifice long-term profits for short-term profits.

Again, DVC is a ticking time bomb waiting to blow up in WDW's face.


I agree with much of your post, however, the total number of DVC is only a fraction of the available hotel rooms. I am surprised that DVC would consider building Poly DVC before they touch Anaheim, Paris or Asia.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I agree with much of your post, however, the total number of DVC is only a fraction of the available hotel rooms. I am surprised that DVC would consider building Poly DVC before they touch Anaheim, Paris or Asia.
See: http://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/hotels/number-rooms

As I indicated in a previous post, there now is the equivalent of over 4000 DVC rooms. Per the above link, WDW has about 23,700 non-DVC rooms (excluding Shades of Green, Dolphin, and Swan which are not run by Disney). Considering that DVCs run at about 98% occupancy while Disney's other resorts run at about 80%, DVC members now represent as many as 20% of WDW onsite guests. That's potentially 20% of rooms being paid for at cost. Some DVC rooms can be combined so the actual number of DVC guests per day is almost certainly lower but, hopefully, this makes it clearer that DVCs now are becoming an important factor impacting margins.

Guessing why the Poly's next, perhaps there's not enough room to add at DLR, DLP is not considered a good location to add DVCs, while a TDL DVC could hurt Aulani sales. What's clear, at least to me, is that VGF and Poly should sell very quickly. They seem like low-risk/high-return choices.

P.S. One more thought. Disney has about 5600 Deluxe Resort rooms. These rooms have huge margins. However, with over 4000 DVC rooms now available and targeted at the Deluxe Resort market, DVCs are really putting the squeeze on WDW's Deluxe Resorts.

There's a reason Disney always seems to offer 30% "Room Only" discounts at their Deluxe Resorts.
 
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