Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[WDWDad13]

This is pretty much all we need to know....

ok... so what do you think they should have done with Downtown Disney... bring back the Adventure's Club and Pleasure Island clubs and call it a day v/s the new grand plan and design

 

[asianway]

You have service contract costs (tech support/RMA) which is frequently in that 10-20% range.. and then your own operational (or contract) staff to run things. But it is overly simplistic to tag that 10-20% to the total budget. You don't buy service contracts on installation labor costs, project management, etc. It would be like 10-20% of your hardware/software costs.. not total budget.

Exactly, and no one really knows how the total project cost breaks out - a good deal may be OpEx from all the NextGen hourly CMs - no idea.

And if all of this is custom developed, they may have to pay for in house IT which is pure ongoing costs that will run the upper end of the spectrum.

 

[Computer Magic]

Disney isn't struggling to fill their theme parks whether we go or not... this is part of the reason there is no MAJOR park project fast tracked... they see no reason to in the numbers... I don't think that's what they should be looking at to make this call... but it is... they are running a business and a lot of us forget that

That statement is true and sad at the same time. I'm guilty of spending money into a lessor product. It wasn't until my wife brought reality to my attention. I don't see going back to WDW for many years after last Feb.

 

[WDWDad13]

That statement is true and sad at the same time. I'm guilty of spending money into a lessor product. It wasn't until my wife brought reality to my attention. I don't see going back to WDW for many years after last Feb.

different strokes for different folks... I myself will be staying OFF property for the first time this Dec and will likely take a year or 2 off soon as well... unless...something big comes

however... I don't think they'll be hurting in attendance for my year off

 

[erider]

This is pretty much all we need to know....

Exactly. More shops and restaurants is just what we need at WDW

 

[Computer Magic]

different strokes for different folks... I myself will be staying OFF property for the first time this Dec and will likely take a year or 2 off soon as well... unless...something big comes

however... I don't think they'll be hurting in attendance for my year off

That was my point. As long as we go back, WDW thinks they are on the right track. I'm hoping more take a year off or 2.

Besides I need the FP+ to shake off the cobwebs and get away from being a early adopter.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

You mean, like the project plan they had out in DCA?

Like when Georgie K told the LA Times that they would have to turn guests away from DCA because it was full?

 

[WDWDad13]

Exactly. More shops and restaurants is just what we need at WDW

there is PAYOFF in doing this haha... why don't more people understand this

Disney isn't designing their parks and resorts for just what you and I want

 

[crispy]

I just don't get all the negativity sometimes... I mean I'll be the first to admit there are A LOT of things Disney could and should be doing differently right now and putting out new attractions, lands, etc. but being Debbie Downer on EVERYTHING Disney does these days (even right) is getting old

whether we like it or not or the parks stay as stale as they want for years....they are still going to be full of lots of people having a good time and enjoy what they have to offer... even if it's not the magical sunshine and pot of pixie dust gold some want

I could be here all day listing things "I THINK" Disney should be doing to better themselves and make it more appealing for guests... but it won't matter

honestly... I'm very encouraged by the Disney Springs project and think if this is the model for big change down the road we should be good

The bolded may indeed be the biggest miscalculation of all. Yes, people will still go to WDW, but if what we are hearing about the summer guest numbers are correct, WDW may be hurting more than we think. Many people like me are turned off by the NGE for one main reason - it makes what should be a fun vacation turn into a planning nightmare. I don't want to plan my day months in advance. I also don't like the datamining aspect AT ALL.

I also think that WDW is about to reach the point where it is truly out of reach financially for the average family. Let me put it this way, I have been pricing out a Universal vacation vs. a Disney vacation for my family of 4. I can spend 5 nights at a Universal partner hotel (basically a value resort), get two days of free dining, and 4 one-park per day tickets at both UOR parks for less than $1100 - OR - I could buy 4 one-park per day tickets to Disney $1146, no lodging. If I want to be crazy at stay at a Universal Hotel, I can use the sweet PIN code they just sent me for 40% to stay at the deluxe Hard Rock Hotel and get 4 one-park per day tickets to UOR for $1565 with the added bonus of having Express Pass - OR - I can stay at Value resort for 5 nights and get 4 one-park per day passes for $1656.

 

[orky8]

different strokes for different folks... I myself will be staying OFF property for the first time this Dec and will likely take a year or 2 off soon as well... unless...something big comes

however... I don't think they'll be hurting in attendance for my year off

You and a lot of other people are starting to make a difference. Even DVCers are starting to explore off property (obviously they sleep on property). A 1% decline hurts. A flat attendence based on discounts hurts. An increased attendence with decrease spending on food, merch, or lodging hurts. And good, because stupid should hurt. And TDO has been very, very stupid.

 

[crispy]

Disney World is going to get plenty of "rides" in the future... trust me on this... they are building a foundation for the future of the WDW theme parks

And you know this...how exactly?

 

[Skippy's Pal]

I tend to agree. Those of us who frequent Disney and theme park discussion boards and who visit quite regularly may or may not find elements of NextGen attractive or particulary useful, but we are not typical guests. Over a period of a month at work, I casually chatted with 14 people I know who visited WDW within the past 3 years (from 'way up here in Canada'). Since I am the 'Disney Guy' on staff, people will ask me to help plan trips for them, tell me what they liked, vent about what they didn't like, etc. Many of these familes are planning return trips (some in 2013) and they represent what I would call 'casual guests'. They'll go to WDW in 2 to 5 year intervals, don't know the names of all the attractions, have never been on any WDW boards, etc.

During our discussions, I noted a couple major elements of NextGen...fastpass+ and RFID braclets to hear what they thought. Without exception, every person thought these 2 things would be awesome! The most attractive element for all these people was the idea of reserving ride times. The gist of the comments was this: 'We don't go there that often, so it would be the best thing ever if we knew for sure that we could ride our fav attractions before we left for the parks. That would be so cool and allow us to relax and not feel so stressed or rushed. We could go whatever time of day we want too, and as long as we booked in advance, we could still do the things we like best'

I'm not saying that billions couldn't be better spent, but I think Disney is ahead of the curve here and 10 years from now this might be looked back on in a much more positive light, as a bold, progessive move.

I hear you, but what doesn't work for me about this argument is the fact that there are thousands in the parks each day NOW who remain ignorant of or are flummoxed by the current "vanilla" FP system. Yet somehow "the masses" will embrace this unholy amalgam of RFID's, smartphones, and 60-day plan ahead ride decisions? (Our Brazilian guests being a further interesting case study in all this.) Add to this the gutting of Park Hopping, the fake inflation of "experiences" by putting things on the Magic Band "choice" list which are not today standalone attractions (such as preferred parade viewing space), and wrap it all up with Disney's historical and consistent inability to manage even basic web technology, and you've got the Big Dig of Disney projects and the Lone Ranger of park experiences. So sad.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

The bolded may indeed be the biggest miscalculation of all. Yes, people will still go to WDW, but if what we are hearing about the summer guest numbers are correct, WDW may be hurting more than we think. Many people like me are turned off by the NGW for one main reason - it makes what should be a fun vacation turn into a planning nightmare. I don't want to plan my day months in advance. I also don't like the datamining aspect AT ALL.

I also think that WDW is about to reach the point where it is truly out of reach financially for the average family. Let me put it this way, I have been pricing out a Universal vacation vs. a Disney vacation for my family of 4. I can spend 5 nights at a Universal partner hotel (basically a value resort), get two days of free dining, and 4 one-park per day tickets at both UOR parks for less than $1100 - OR - I could buy 4 one-park per day tickets to Disney $1146, no lodging. If I want to be crazy at stay at a Universal Hotel, I can use the sweet PIN code they just sent me for 40% to stay at the deluxe Hard Rock Hotel and get 4 one-park per day tickets to UOR for $1565 with the added bonus of having Express Pass - OR - I can stay at Value resort for 5 nights and get 4 one-park per day passes for $1656.

I was in the MK last weekend...and on Saturday, it was very pleasurable with no "over-the-top" lines. Utilizing FP (just to use them), we didn't wait longer than 20 minutes for anything.

Peter Pan had the longest posted wait time at 60 minutes but all mountains (whenever we were near them), were at 45.

We were expecting HEAVY crowds and were pleasantly surprised.

 

[CDavid]

and the poo-poo'ing continues lol

ya know... a lot of people thought Disneyland was a disaster initially too

This isn't an apples to oranges comparison - It's apples to a moon rock.

Even if Disneyland had somehow been a colossal failure, you would still have a castle and a park and the related infrastructure to point at and say "that's there the money went".

So, what does Disney have to show for the NGE $3 billion and counting?

I truly believe they will get it right and it will pay dividends down the road.... and most of us will like it down the road too

Given all the evidence to the contrary, you still believe Disney will get it right? That's blind faith for sure.

 

[erider]

there is PAYOFF in doing this haha... why don't more people understand this

Disney isn't designing their parks and resorts for just what you and I want

Oh, I understand it from a business point of view for TDO. However I don't think Disney Springs will pull extra crowds to WDW when down the road Universal is building what could be the best E-ticket attractions ever made.

 

[doctornick]

I tend to agree. Those of us who frequent Disney and theme park discussion boards and who visit quite regularly may or may not find elements of NextGen attractive or particulary useful, but we are not typical guests. Over a period of a month at work, I casually chatted with 14 people I know who visited WDW within the past 3 years (from 'way up here in Canada'). Since I am the 'Disney Guy' on staff, people will ask me to help plan trips for them, tell me what they liked, vent about what they didn't like, etc. Many of these familes are planning return trips (some in 2013) and they represent what I would call 'casual guests'. They'll go to WDW in 2 to 5 year intervals, don't know the names of all the attractions, have never been on any WDW boards, etc.

During our discussions, I noted a couple major elements of NextGen...fastpass+ and RFID braclets to hear what they thought. Without exception, every person thought these 2 things would be awesome! The most attractive element for all these people was the idea of reserving ride times. The gist of the comments was this: 'We don't go there that often, so it would be the best thing ever if we knew for sure that we could ride our fav attractions before we left for the parks. That would be so cool and allow us to relax and not feel so stressed or rushed. We could go whatever time of day we want too, and as long as we booked in advance, we could still do the things we like best'

I'm not saying that billions couldn't be better spent, but I think Disney is ahead of the curve here and 10 years from now this might be looked back on in a much more positive light, as a bold, progessive move.

I tend to agree with you on this. From a guest standpoint -- yes, I realize that that wasn't the important thing when disney planned and authorized the system -- I think that most people will actually view the changes with NextGen to be very positive. Stuff like having the bands have multiple features on them (room key, link to room charges, park tickets, etc.) or having more personalized experiences will be appealing to most guests. Being able to coordinate your vacation and have rides reserved in advance will please most guests. If there is infrastructure upgates to stuff like wifi, that's a benefit as well. The subset here is not a typical WDW visitior and shouldn't be looked at as the typical guest reaction.

Now, I have serious concerns about Disney's ability to impliment this well (they seem to such at anything tech related) and the ever growing costs are disheartening. But I think that if NextGen were able to be implimented effectively and done at the original projected costs, that it would be a very good thing. Even with their being "nefarious" motives of data mining behind it. It's just that it seems that Disney overestimated the complexity and cost of the undertaking to get it to be what they wanted it to be and it's very unfortunate since that money could have been used for more productive purposes.

 

[twebber55]

You and a lot of other people are starting to make a difference. Even DVCers are starting to explore off property (obviously they sleep on property). A 1% decline hurts. A flat attendence based on discounts hurts. An increased attendence with decrease spending on food, merch, or lodging hurts. And good, because stupid should hurt. And TDO has been very, very stupid.

im a dvc er and my last three trips to orlando has been to UOR...tree house villas are pretty sweet though i will admit

 

[71jason]

ok... so what do you think they should have done with Downtown Disney... bring back the Adventure's Club and Pleasure Island clubs and call it a day v/s the new grand plan and design

Yes, exactly. With some refurbs of course, and maybe that new bypass along the lake. Also, the turnstiles and the nightly outdoor entertainment. Satisfies guest demand, makes a huge profit relative to investment. That's the smart way to run a business, not, "I better go along with whatever the IT guys say so I don't look old and unhip."

 

[71jason]

Oh, I understand it from a business point of view for TDO. However I don't think Disney Springs will pull extra crowds to WDW when down the road Universal is building what could be the best E-ticket attractions ever made.

Impossible to say, since WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WILL BE IN THERE. Love it or hate it, we can judge NGE because its moved onto testing stage. People who express unconditional love for Disney Springs without know exactly what will be there are basically just high on Pixie Dust. Or plants.

In the case of the thread's new superstar, I'm going with plant.

 

[jback93]

Whether you like NGE or not, I certainly would love to have a FP+ to skip this queue of discussion to get straight to 74's Spirited new, observations, and thoughts.