Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[WDWDad13]

Yes, exactly. With some refurbs of course, and maybe that new bypass along the lake. Also, the turnstiles and the nightly outdoor entertainment. Satisfies guest demand, makes a huge profit relative to investment. That's the smart way to run a business, not, "I better go along with whatever the IT guys say so I don't look old and unhip."

haha trust me... IT does NOT set direction for the WDW parks... they get told what to do... who knows, it might be better the other way around

 

[Ignohippo]

It's not an attraction... It's a data mining system designed so that Disney can get more of your money. Yes there are "perks" but tey aren't all that great. But as others have alreadyentioned... Disney has failed to do the majority of things necessary to make the system successful.

The CMs do not support it because they see how terrible the system is... We've had reports for months from people saying it isn't easily implementable. It should be a system that the majority of CMs can work with. It isn't.

And the guests... Well exactly how would you like us to react to the news that hat should have cost 1 billion is now costing 2-3 billion? And projects are getting delayed... Avatar now is if wasnt already. The real question is what's next in that department.... Because if costs continue to ride you can be sure that's what's going to happen. So I don't see how that "pooh-poohing" was exactly unfounded. Those predictions came true from people on here came true. It did just take away and/or delay attractions...

And again, NGE isn't any attraction. I'm not going to go to Disney because I can wear a wristband instead of keep a cars in my wallet.

Written on an iPad, no doubt.

 

[Computer Magic]

I was in the MK last weekend...and on Saturday, it was very pleasurable with no "over-the-top" lines. Utilizing FP (just to use them), we didn't wait longer than 20 minutes for anything.

Peter Pan had the longest posted wait time at 60 minutes but all mountains (whenever we were near them), were at 45.

We were expecting HEAVY crowds and were pleasantly surprised.

One of my complaints is Disney is getting too crowded no matter when you visted. I would like a lessor crowd like you mention above.

I appauld Disney for trying to get wait times under control. I don't know about FP+ and walking around looking at my smartphone instead of the magic around me.

Are there policies about driving a stroller while aquiring a FP+?

 

[Ignohippo]

So half your numbers, but you get the idea. $300M a year for maintaining the software infrastructure. That's the budget of an E-Ticket each year.

Or the cost of 30 E-tickets at any other amusement park – or almost 2x WWoHP....

 

[Computer Magic]

im a dvc er and my last three trips to orlando has been to UOR...tree house villas are pretty sweet though i will admit

This is something WDW never expected when they went DVC. I'm really hoping their data mining proves owning a DVC doesn't mean you spend money in WDW. That is the only way Disney will start investing into the parks.

WDW went DVC because they thought you would be hooked into WDW.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

One of my complaints is Disney is getting too crowded no matter when you visted. I would like a lessor crowd like you mention above.

I appauld Disney for trying to get wait times under control. I know about FP+ and walking around looking at my smartphone instead of the magic around me.

Are there policies about driving a stroller while aquiring a FP+?

But the question is...
Is Disney getting wait times under control...or are people just not going?

 

[Furiated]

UNI...all you need to do is step inside and wonder about wait times.

Incorrect. I stay on site at UNI and never worry about wait times

 

[bubbles1812]

Written on an iPad, no doubt.

Iphone actually . I don't have any problems with utilizing technology to improve infrastructure/guest experience... But NGE certainly hasn't proven to be a good utilization of technology, resources, or money thus far. And last I checked, I didnt spend 2-3 billion on my iPhone.

 

[Computer Magic]

But the question is...
Is Disney getting wait times under control...or are people just not going?

I would say people are not going. FP+ is too new and not fully implemented to make a difference. ALthough those FP+ promoters will tell you differently.

 

[bubbles1812]

And you know this...how exactly?

"Magic". How could you not pick up on that obvious answer?

 

[orky8]

Also, you have to remember that Disney's entire business strategy for WDW, and one of the fundamental reasons for and assumptions underlying NGE, is that they want to keep you on property for every single second of your vacation. That is why DME exists. That is why dining plans exist. That is why you book every minute of your vacation 180 days and 60 days in advance. If people start leaving property for even one day, let alone staying off property, the entire plan starts to collapse and along with it the profitability assumptions for NGE. For some reason I will never understand, WDW assumed pixie dust additction was untreatable and no matter what they did (or did not do) their customers would return like clockwork and they could use NGE to extract more money from those customers. Somewhere along the way, they forgot that if they want their customers to come back, they need to build new attractions and perform general maintenance -- not just give not-so-new ways to experience attractions while wearing a bracelet. NGE was never meant to entice customers, it was meant to extract money from customers, which only works if, well, you have customers. Now, of course, their will always be customers but evidence suggests not nearly the volume Disney anticipated.

The worst part is, you need capital expenditure to attract and maintain customers (new attractions and experiences), but Disney just blew $2 Billion without any evidence at the moment they will get a return on their investment and now the BOD is not so sure it wants to authorize any more money because of what TDO did with the last authorization.

 

[devoy1701]

I just don't get all the negativity sometimes... I mean I'll be the first to admit there are A LOT of things Disney could and should be doing differently right now and putting out new attractions, lands, etc. but being Debbie Downer on EVERYTHING Disney does these days (even right) is getting old

whether we like it or not or the parks stay as stale as they want for years....they are still going to be full of lots of people having a good time and enjoy what they have to offer... even if it's not the magical sunshine and pot of pixie dust gold some want

I could be here all day listing things "I THINK" Disney should be doing to better themselves and make it more appealing for guests... but it won't matter

honestly... I'm very encouraged by the Disney Springs project and think if this is the model for big change down the road we should be good

haha... everyone is all about "rides"... and anything they do NextGen, new busses, new bus stops, DVC resorts, pave a parking lot, etc. is considered wasting money until we get a new "ride"

I guarantee you the project plan (which we will never see) lists a bigger return on investment in the long run than we will ever know or see

The biggest point you seem to be missing is that TDO is ignoring their offerings and focusing solely on the infrastructure. I hear what you're saying about Disney is spending the money on future theme park infrastructure that others aren't willing to spend and maybe it will pay off in dividends one day. But you can't ignore your core business while trying to build out your next big thing! You can't throw all of your eggs in one basket (or budget towards one project). Disney is LUCKY that such great theme parks were built out in the 80s and 90s because WDW wouldn't have been able to survive otherwise. It's been 7 years since we've had a major ticket ride added to the 4 parks....7 years! Meanwhile Uni and SeaWorld are added major attractions every 2 years!

Regardless of how great you think this NexGen Infrastructure is, it's not going to keep people coming in the gates. It's not going to make people want to visit again and again. It's not going to increase attendance.

Infrastructure improvements need to be done in addition to offering improvements and upgrades. Buses, road improvements, parking structures, Monorail expansions can and should all be done in addition to adding to the attraction line up. You must have missed the thread where we were discussing that Disney World's physical infrastructure is also crippling and needs massive upgrades that would allow them to move away from their dependency on buses.

Disney isn't struggling to fill their theme parks whether we go or not... this is part of the reason there is no MAJOR park project fast tracked... they see no reason to in the numbers... I don't think that's what they should be looking at to make this call... but it is... they are running a business and a lot of us forget that

That statement is true and sad at the same time. I'm guilty of spending money into a lessor product. It wasn't until my wife brought reality to my attention. I don't see going back to WDW for many years after last Feb.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that the numbers are great. There was a reason TWDC pulled a shell game with their attendance numbers a few years back to stop giving us individual park figures. And we know from reading the annual reports that hotel occupancy has been down, and that the only reason per guest spending had been up was because of increased prices. I know Disney World is a hard habit to break, but taking a trip out to Disneyland is a real eye opener. I want to want to go back to my beloved Magic Kingdom in Orlando...but there's no reason for me to, especially not for more money than I had to pay when I was last there 3.5 years ago. NexGen isn't a reason. Be Our Guest Restaurant isn't a reason. Seven Dwarf Mine Train isn't a compelling enough reason...

 

[Ignohippo]

I just don't get all the negativity sometimes... I mean I'll be the first to admit there are A LOT of things Disney could and should be doing differently right now and putting out new attractions, lands, etc. but being Debbie Downer on EVERYTHING Disney does these days (even right) is getting old

whether we like it or not or the parks stay as stale as they want for years....they are still going to be full of lots of people having a good time and enjoy what they have to offer... even if it's not the magical sunshine and pot of pixie dust gold some want

I could be here all day listing things "I THINK" Disney should be doing to better themselves and make it more appealing for guests... but it won't matter

honestly... I'm very encouraged by the Disney Springs project and think if this is the model for big change down the road we should be good

We're "Debbie Downers" because TDO is spending $3 billion on a project that has very limited appeal to the common guest while their parks linger in mediocrity and with a complete disregard to privacy at the same time.

Unfortunately, only Avatar and Disney Springs are happening for sure (and until vertical construction starts, I'm not so sure either one will happen completely as projected).

Do you have any idea how much merch they're going to have to sell to equal $3 billion + $600 mil in annual expenses? I don't know how in the world they think this tech is going to pay for itself.

 

[WDWDad13]

The biggest point you seem to be missing is that TDO is ignoring their offerings and focusing solely on the infrastructure. I hear what you're saying about Disney is spending the money on future theme park infrastructure that others aren't willing to spend and maybe it will pay off in dividends one day. But you can't ignore your core business while trying to build out your next big thing! You can't throw all of your eggs in one basket (or budget towards one project). Disney is LUCKY that such great theme parks were built out in the 80s and 90s because WDW wouldn't have been able to survive otherwise. It's been 7 years since we've had a major ticket ride added to the 4 parks....7 years! Meanwhile Uni and SeaWorld are added major attractions every 2 years!

Regardless of how great you think this NexGen Infrastructure is, it's not going to keep people coming in the gates. It's not going to make people want to visit again and again. It's not going to increase attendance.

Infrastructure improvements need to be done in addition to offering improvements and upgrades. Buses, road improvements, parking structures, Monorail expansions can and should all be done in addition to adding to the attraction line up. You must have missed the thread where we were discussing that Disney World's physical infrastructure is also crippling and needs massive upgrades that would allow them to move away from their dependency on buses.




I wouldn't be so quick to say that the numbers are great. There was a reason TWDC pulled a shell game with their attendance numbers a few years back to stop giving us individual park figures. And we know from reading the annual reports that hotel occupancy has been down, and that the only reason per guest spending had been up was because of increased prices. I know Disney World is a hard habit to break, but taking a trip out to Disneyland is a real eye opener. I want to want to go back to my beloved Magic Kingdom in Orlando...but there's no reason for me to, especially not for more money than I had to pay when I was last there 3.5 years ago. NexGen isn't a reason. Be Our Guest Restaurant isn't a reason. Seven Dwarf Mine Train isn't a compelling enough reason...

so what in the Magic Kingdom do you think they should be doing that would bring you back?

 

[rudyjr13]

Guest enhancement features such as wifi, rfid for park and hotel room entry, and better mobile apps are good. Fundamentally changing the way I experience the parks with Fastpass +, continuing to increase prices while offering less is bad. As is spending the money on this without adding things to do. And I'm an iPhone touting IT guy...

 

[crispy]

But they built new BATHROOMS at MK!!!! Surely that is worth a visit! I bet you could even get a FP+ for the experience.

I know I sound snarky. I do love Disney, but the absurdity of the NGE project along with the Avatar project that may or may not be built before my youngest goes off to college along with the price increases (that would probably pay for said college), just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Ignohippo]

Iphone actually . I don't have any problems with utilizing technology to improve infrastructure/guest experience... But NGE certainly hasn't proven to be a good utilization of technology, resources, or money thus far. And last I checked, I didnt spend 2-3 billion on my iPhone.

Well, kudos for even being able to write that well on an iPhone. I use my iPad most of the time to write on these boards, and my postnusuallynlooknlikenthis.

 

[devoy1701]

honestly... I'm very encouraged by the Disney Springs project and think if this is the model for big change down the road we should be good

Please remember that Pleasure Island closed 5 years ago...

Again, that was 5 years ago.

For 2 long years the place sat empty...boarded up...deserted.
And then they had this GREAT new plan for Hyperion Wharf! And it was fantastic! And had lots of lights and stuff! And Water Features! and it was a cool new model for the future of how we would be entertained after a day at the theme parks.
And then they tore down some clubs, but ultimately nothing happened...and the idea quietly under rug swept. And another 2 years went by...

And then OMG Disney Springs is going to be fantastic! Just what you were looking for in a shopping and dining destination! But it's essentially the same thing that Hyperion Wharf was going to be except with more ponds.

Construction is just now starting on Disney Springs almost 5 years after closing down PI.

And we're to believe that the right Management is in place for NexGen and FP+ to be implemented correctly?

 

[Ignohippo]

Okay, in a nutshell, here's what I don't get about NextGen:

So, Disney usually makes about $2.5 billion per year in revenue from Parks & Resorts. NextGen is supposed to increase spending on things like additional nights at the Resorts (at most), and (at the least) have visitors spend more on things like food and merchandise.

So, how much more do they think the average guest will spend per vacation? 5%? 10%?

Even if the average guest now spends 10% more per visit than they do now (which would be astronomical), that only adds $250 million per year of revenue. With an initial cost of $3 billion, that means it will take 12 years to re-coup the initial costs – and that doesn't even take into consideration the annual costs, which some have estimated at as much as $300 million per year.

So how could this possibly EVER turn a profit?

 

[WDWDad13]

Please remember that Pleasure Island closed 5 years ago...

Again, that was 5 years ago.

For 2 long years the place sat empty...boarded up...deserted.
And then they had this GREAT new plan for Hyperion Wharf! And it was fantastic! And had lots of lights and stuff! And Water Features! and it was a cool new model for the future of how we would be entertained after a day at the theme parks.
And then they tore down some clubs, but ultimately nothing happened...and the idea quietly under rug swept. And another 2 years went by...

And then OMG Disney Springs is going to be fantastic! Just what you were looking for in a shopping and dining destination! But it's essentially the same thing that Hyperion Wharf was going to be except with more ponds.

Construction is just now starting on Disney Springs almost 5 years after closing down PI.

And we're to believe that the right Management is in place for NexGen and FP+ to be implemented correctly?

wow seriously... you think Hyperion Barf was going to be like Disney Springs? talk about comparing apples to a moon rock