Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[flynnibus]

Yes, your point was understood - that you believe if people suddenly have a plastic bracelet instead of a plastic card suddenly they are going to forget about the dollar value of what they are spending and run around the parks willy nilly charging up a storm because it's so much easier to swipe your wrist and not a card.

No - you're mixing and blending to suit your own need.. and I'm not going to repeat myself anymore. You don't follow it.. I'm not wasting any more of my time with it.

It's such a miniscule amount of effort that it saves that I (and others, it seems) don't believe it's going to make that much difference, at all. And let's not forget - it's not like all guests will have these, either.

Customer penetration should be better... how many parents trust their kids with the KTTW card at all times? How many moms leave the cards with the dad? With a band, they are more likely to leave the token with the individual.

It doesn't take much changes on Disney's side to be more agressive with enabling charging either.. change of defaults, etc.

It's a novelty. Trust me, I understand payment systems and alternate payment devices, etc. - I work in the industry. In the real world, all of this alternate payment stuff has yet to shake out even though everyone and their brother has attempted it. The only reason it is even going to begin to work at Disney is that it's a relatively closed system they are working with.
[...]This notion that somehow people are going to increase their spending by anything measurable misses the one key - consumers (and Americans in general) are EXTREMELY suspicious of new financial devices

And this has what ebay, Google, etc DON'T have... the decades of inherent trust in the Disney brand. This is DISNEY to people... the place they think crime doesn't happen, magic happens, 'world class service', etc etc. Those other systems are building from zero and do not have mass market trust. Disney does. Are they worthy of it? Different discussion.. but from their past.. they still have it now.

The one overriding emotion consumers have right now over alternate payment devices is fear. I mean, look at the threads here over the past year or two about it. We tend to have more educated folk here than the average Disney consumer (or site, LOL) and yet still people didn't/don't trust it. And most of them don't feel some huge burden by having to reach into a secured pocket or other place on their person to get their card to swipe.

And this is where the 'close system' works to Disneys favor to minimize those fears. The fact it's Disney, the fact it's internal only, etc will counter those fears and as people become accustomed to it, they will move beyond them. I mean, we aren't breaking new ground here... The Cruise industry has been cashless for quite some time now and where are the massive revolts of people going 'I'll never use that card.. its gonna steal your soul!!'?

Yes, sometimes you have to push people to get them beyond their fear.. but how many people come back from a cruise talking about how awful the cashless system was?

Your point seems to be that, out of the subset of Disney Park guests who will ever even get a bracelet, the further subset of those that choose to give it charging privileges is somehow going to measurably increase revenue because people are so stupid they are going to spend more by using a bracelet than a card.

It's not about 'stupid' - it's about numbers. Just like advertising.. increased exposures leads to increased sales. When you increase the # of opportunities.. you ultimately convert some of them.

Most importantly, IT systems should not even be on the public's radar - they are supposed to be invisible - but since it's the only real change at WDW in forever we sit here and talk about it. The most "exciting" thing going on the past few years. It's excruciating.

Utter garbage. IT systems can be the market differentiator or disruptor.. they can make or break companies. Look at something like Amazon... Walmart... ordering pizza online.. finding your menu online.. checking store inventory.. next day delivery. These are all things where companies used information systems to reset expectations of what is possible and what every company SHOULD do. Now customers shouldn't see that as 'wow, check out they upgraded their ERP system!!' but they see it as the company embracing and leveraging tech. What you should always keep away from customers is burdening them with your IT limitations.. the classic 'the computer wont let me do that...' excuse.

The reason we talk about it here is we have a bunch of backseat drivers who think they know the business and industry because they have theme parks as a hobby.

I find it amazing a month ago the latest fad is to blame MBAs for everything... and the problem is the parks are all being ran by numbers people. Yet, now we want to believe these same 'numbers first' people are so blindly decieved by billions of dollars in schemes that could not ever possibly work? Those would be some pretty wacky numbers people.. who don't even understand numbers.

As customers... many need to come to terms with we don't know all the justifications and tradeoffs they made to satisfy their minds to greenlight such investment.

As it stands right now, the larger scope of the programs seem to be a train wreck... but so far that seems to be due to implementation, not because it was a shell game to start.

Lets be real... the type of data that Disney would be generating and manipulating internally from such a project we'd never see, or even remotely get close to evalating. We can't even get close to true attendance numbers.. let alone internal studies on customer behaviors and promotional analysis. Because of these realities... it's probably impossible for us to ever know how successful or not many of these internal systems will be.

All we will get is internal grumblings and watercooler rumors... that get passed on by individuals to outsiders who report it again to the fan community.

 

[71jason]

I'll just ask you this: Do you believe that the guests will always come to Disney, no matter what?

"Of course. Just like they'll always keep coming to Disney animated movies. They're an American tradition!" -TWDC exec, ca. 1994 (just after Lion King became the highest grossing cartoon of all time, but before Atlantis, Treasure Planet, Home on the Range, Chicken Little, Meet the Robinsons ...)

 

[flynnibus]

Most of my trips to WDW do not include any of those over-rated treats.

I can truely say I've never had any of them. Tho I did try the cinn. bun in DCA since people were ranting about them here..

 

[flynnibus]

That is a stereotype and wasn't always that way. That's media influencing people shortsighted thinking.

Or an idea fostered in the 90s when the amusement industry went 'big, bigger, BIGGER' every year and Disney stood on the sidelines and said 'not for us'. And then proceeded to aim lower and lower with their target audience doing kiddie kiddie kiddie instead of the wide appeal attractions that built the park legacy.

To quote Chris Rock.. it's ain't the media

Disney fostered this mindset themselves with their evolving product offerings.

 

[71jason]

I can truely say I've never had any of them. Tho I did try the cinn. bun in DCA since people were ranting about them here..

Sorry, Flynnibus, but I've got to ask--why never a Dole Whip? Allergy thing? Because I can't fathom caring enough about Disney to post on a board like this, often, and never once saying, hey, let me try that iconic ice cream thing people have raved about for decades and which is supposed to be the be-all-end-all Disney treat.

 

[Computer Magic]

Or an idea fostered in the 90s when the amusement industry went 'big, bigger, BIGGER' every year and Disney stood on the sidelines and said 'not for us'. And then proceeded to aim lower and lower with their target audience doing kiddie kiddie kiddie instead of the wide appeal attractions that built the park legacy.

To quote Chris Rock.. it's ain't the media

Disney fostered this mindset themselves with their evolving product offerings.

I totally agree with Disney target being dumped down. Its easy to entertain kids and market to the adults that they must bring their children to Disney. The market is presented to draw the kids to Disney, like that sugar cereal they advertise on Sat morning.

I didn't mean media as TV new anchors presenting something. Perhaps wrong wording but meant as focusing on advertising, TV, radio, marketing and PR, press and publishing being done by Disney.

 

[flynnibus]

Egads - I hope you don't mean that ... example if I know someones pin number and say give the card to someone else ... they can easily buy goods and services and no one will check the name matches up no more I.D ... the only way the system would be secure if it was pin and sign system. Oh and people can still copy cards in restaurant independent of chip and pin.

The point of the system is you never give your card to anyone.. so the classic 'something you have, something you know' two factor authentication is in play. You don't have to give your card to the waiter like you do here in the states.. they bring the terminal to you.

You're bringing up the corner case of you gave your card away... AND they know your pin.

 

[flynnibus]

Sorry, Flynnibus, but I've got to ask--why never a Dole Whip? Allergy thing? Because I can't fathom caring enough about Disney to post on a board like this, often, and never once saying, hey, let me try that iconic ice cream thing people have raved about for decades and which is supposed to be the be-all-end-all Disney treat.

I don't like pineapple.

 

[MattM]

When exactly were you at Universal? Any chance you happened to be at CityWalk on a Saturday night when every skank and wannabe thug in Orange county were there? I'll buy what you're selling about the ADULTS at WDW vs. Universal, but the cheap annual passes at Uni makes it the place to hang out for teenagers and alcoholic UCF students who are "too cool" for Disney. DisneyQuest is the same thing but for younger kids. Local parents who are too lazy to raise their kids dump them at DisneyQuest all summer.

So true.

 

[flynnibus]

I didn't mean media as TV new anchors presenting something. Perhaps wrong wording but meant as focusing on advertising, TV, radio, marketing and PR, press and publishing being done by Disney.

Yeah, there's no doubting the 'Nuclear Family' for disney is the two parents, two kids, ages 10 and 8... type of stereotype

 

[doctornick]

Or an idea fostered in the 90s when the amusement industry went 'big, bigger, BIGGER' every year and Disney stood on the sidelines and said 'not for us'. And then proceeded to aim lower and lower with their target audience doing kiddie kiddie kiddie instead of the wide appeal attractions that built the park legacy.

To quote Chris Rock.. it's ain't the media

Disney fostered this mindset themselves with their evolving product offerings.

That's the thing. I don't expect -- nor do I think it's a good idea -- for Disney to try to engage the "thrill ride" segment. Sure, they can and should have some more "family style" thrills like Everest and ToT and such, but none of those really compete with a true coaster park. It's a completely different niche.

But Disney was always fantastic with immersive rides where you have a great experience. Such that was (potentially) enjoyable for all ages. The problem IMHO is that they've moved away from that in two ways: (1) simply not building as many rides as they had in the past, which make the parks stale and (2) making new offering more "juvenile" in nature, so they appeal only to really young children and their families. It's not that there is something wrong with rides for the younger set, but that shouldn't be the exclusive target for new attractions.

They need to have more rides that are fun for everyone. Something like Mystic Manor or bringing back some of the magic from Epcot 1.0 (they can start by having an Imagination ride that is similar in quality to the original). That's the Disney that make the parks a huge success.

 

[JenniferS]

I don't like pineapple.

That'll do it.

 

[71jason]

I don't like pineapple.

Fair enough.

 

[PhotoDave219]

When exactly were you at Universal? Any chance you happened to be at CityWalk on a Saturday night when every skank and wannabe thug in Orange county were there? I'll buy what you're selling about the ADULTS at WDW vs. Universal, but the cheap annual passes at Uni makes it the place to hang out for teenagers and alcoholic UCF students who are "too cool" for Disney. DisneyQuest is the same thing but for younger kids. Local parents who are too lazy to raise their kids dump them at DisneyQuest all summer.

Well you just described why Pleasure Island died....

 

[GLaDOS]

So now Universal is the hangout for alcoholic UCF students? When they can get drinks for cheaper literally anywhere else?

Oh Disney people, you never cease to amaze.

 

[flynnibus]

So now Universal is the hangout for alcoholic UCF students? When they can get drinks for cheaper literally anywhere else?

Oh Disney people, you never cease to amaze.

never meant a college student that loved to pay to park or pay tourist prices...

We went to .25c pitcher night where we could walk or ride the bus

 

[GLaDOS]

never meant a college student that loved to pay to park or pay tourist prices...

We went to .25c pitcher night where we could walk or ride the bus

Yea. If a friend in college told me we were drinking where the beers were 5-7 bucks I would have laughed at his and bought a case of something crappy for that much.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I've had a Dole Whip once in my life (one of my more recent trips). I like Pineapple normally, but I didn't like Disney's Dole Whips at all. It lacked flavor and felt watered down. Maybe I caught it on an off day, but I much prefer to just make my own Pineapple drink treats at home.

Never had a turkey leg (nor will I likely anytime soon considering i've been a vegetarian since around 2005 or so), but I likely wouldn't want to have one anyways. It looks like food i'd see at a state fair, which had pretty much no appeal to me even when I did eat meat.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I am just glad that Disney is so actively perusing separating me from my money. I mean, the biggest problem WDW is facing is how amazingly difficult it has been to spend money at WDW. Seriously, in the past 10 years, TDO has really spent WAY too much money on state of the art attraction development. And spent way too little effort on maximizing profits. So we shouldn't begrudge them a little self-rewarding in the halls of TDO. Remember, they are redefining the theme park experience.

 

[kittybubbles]

Universal doesn't really have that sort of fanboi, and the Lowes hotels aren't really extensions of the parks like at WDW (no Spongebob meal at Tchoup Chop), so they remain fairly normal. Just like The Ritz and the JW, and even the Swan and Dolphin. Slap the Disney logo on a building, perceptions of it change.

Not Tchoup Chop and I forget the name of the restaurant, but when we stayed at Royal Pacific this past June, we did a character breakfast with DM and Hop characters at the hotel. I think may have been something they were doing for the summer, but I just wanted to point out that the Loews Hotels do have chapter meals from time to time.