Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[dreamscometrue]

I am IT guy for a large fortune 500 company.... the idea and thoughts behind the RFID and NextGen "stuff" to me is brilliant...and Disney is ahead of the game (compared to other theme parks) trying to pull this off. Because of this...they are learning as they go because they have nothing to go by in some regards.

I have no doubt, the RFID and NextGen can be a MAJOR hit with fans and for Disney's bank account... IF and only IF it is designed well, implemented well, supported well, and constantly updated as needed. They CAN do this... and they CAN make a big splash in to Disney innovation with this whole concept... it just needs the right management behind it and support from the CM's and fans to give it a shot.

Too many poo-poo'd on it because of cost right from the beginning thinking it was "taking away from designing new attractions" etc. when in some ways this IS an attraction in and of itself.

I tend to agree. Those of us who frequent Disney and theme park discussion boards and who visit quite regularly may or may not find elements of NextGen attractive or particulary useful, but we are not typical guests. Over a period of a month at work, I casually chatted with 14 people I know who visited WDW within the past 3 years (from 'way up here in Canada'). Since I am the 'Disney Guy' on staff, people will ask me to help plan trips for them, tell me what they liked, vent about what they didn't like, etc. Many of these familes are planning return trips (some in 2013) and they represent what I would call 'casual guests'. They'll go to WDW in 2 to 5 year intervals, don't know the names of all the attractions, have never been on any WDW boards, etc.

During our discussions, I noted a couple major elements of NextGen...fastpass+ and RFID braclets to hear what they thought. Without exception, every person thought these 2 things would be awesome! The most attractive element for all these people was the idea of reserving ride times. The gist of the comments was this: 'We don't go there that often, so it would be the best thing ever if we knew for sure that we could ride our fav attractions before we left for the parks. That would be so cool and allow us to relax and not feel so stressed or rushed. We could go whatever time of day we want too, and as long as we booked in advance, we could still do the things we like best'

I'm not saying that billions couldn't be better spent, but I think Disney is ahead of the curve here and 10 years from now this might be looked back on in a much more positive light, as a bold, progessive move.

 

[Funmeister]

'They CAN do this..' - ergo the problem. Disney has shown repeatedly it struggles with IT integration and services. It's difficult when dealing with a maze of legacy systems as I'm sure they have been for the last 20 years... but here they virtually tried to start all over again which would have freed them of that burden. And it looks like they had complete amateurs driving it because they tried to run before they could crawl. They missed the basics.. they missed how the system is actually used day to day. Those kinds of mistakes are hallmarks of miserable project management.

Project Tomorrowland was a complete nightmare!

 

[Tim_4]

The ideas for revenue generation with this technology is quite fascinating. I'd just be interested to see how someone got this past cost benefit analysis.

The original pro forma showed a huge upside and way lower cost than what's been incurred in reality. Based on the assumptions, the cost benefit analysis was tremendously positive. The failure was in the execution of bringing those assumptions to reality.

 

[WDWDad13]

I tend to agree. Those of us who frequent Disney and theme park discussion boards and who visit quite regularly may or may not find elements of NextGen attractive or particulary useful, but we are not typical guests. Over a period of a month at work, I casually chatted with 14 people I know who visited WDW within the past 3 years (from 'way up here in Canada'). Since I am the 'Disney Guy' on staff, people will ask me to help plan trips for them, tell me what they liked, vent about what they didn't like, etc. Many of these familes are planning return trips (some in 2013) and they represent what I would call 'casual guests'. They'll go to WDW in 2 to 5 year intervals, don't know the names of all the attractions, have never been on any WDW boards, etc.

During our discussions, I noted a couple major elements of NextGen...fastpass+ and RFID braclets to hear what they thought. Without exception, every person thought these 2 things would be awesome! The most attractive element for all these people was the idea of reserving ride times. The gist of the comments was this: 'We don't go there that often, so it would be the best thing ever if we knew for sure that we could ride our fav attractions before we left for the parks. That would be so cool and allow us to relax and not feel so stressed or rushed. We could go whatever time of day we want too, and as long as we booked in advance, we could still do the things we like best'

I'm not saying that billions couldn't be better spent, but I think Disney is ahead of the curve here and 10 years from now this might be looked back on in a much more positive light, as a bold, progessive move.

EXACTLY - Disney is laying the foundation for the future on the NextGen project. Sure there are going to be bumps in the road for implementation... this is a whole new way of thinking, planning, and doing... but the payoff in the LONG RUN will be there....they'll probably make enough off the RFID's in the drink mugs (rather than people reusing or not using them as intended) that'll pay for it all so relax and have a magical day LOL!

 

[Funmeister]

Someone stated a few pages back if we would see execs or upper management fired over the failure of this?

I would have fired them immediately if they came to me with a proposal to spend 1 billion + on bracelets?!?

I also think that the whole MM+ was announced way to early. They shouldn't have announced anything until it was fully ready to roll...

I do not think you will see anyone fired over this specifically because it will not technically "fail" according to the people up top.

 

[Funmeister]

EXACTLY - Disney is laying the foundation for the future on the NextGen project. Sure there are going to be bumps in the road for implementation... this is a whole new way of thinking, planning, and doing... but the payoff in the LONG RUN will be there....they'll probably make enough off the RFID's in the drink mugs (rather than people reusing or not using them as intended) that'll pay for it all so relax and have a magical day LOL!

Just curious....are you aware or have any idea how much this thing is over budget?

 

[DisneyLeo18]

This is kind of how I figured the meeting about NGE went....

 

[sublimesting]

I tend to agree. Those of us who frequent Disney and theme park discussion boards and who visit quite regularly may or may not find elements of NextGen attractive or particulary useful, but we are not typical guests. Over a period of a month at work, I casually chatted with 14 people I know who visited WDW within the past 3 years (from 'way up here in Canada'). Since I am the 'Disney Guy' on staff, people will ask me to help plan trips for them, tell me what they liked, vent about what they didn't like, etc. Many of these familes are planning return trips (some in 2013) and they represent what I would call 'casual guests'. They'll go to WDW in 2 to 5 year intervals, don't know the names of all the attractions, have never been on any WDW boards, etc.

During our discussions, I noted a couple major elements of NextGen...fastpass+ and RFID braclets to hear what they thought. Without exception, every person thought these 2 things would be awesome! The most attractive element for all these people was the idea of reserving ride times. The gist of the comments was this: 'We don't go there that often, so it would be the best thing ever if we knew for sure that we could ride our fav attractions before we left for the parks. That would be so cool and allow us to relax and not feel so stressed or rushed. We could go whatever time of day we want too, and as long as we booked in advance, we could still do the things we like best'

I'm not saying that billions couldn't be better spent, but I think Disney is ahead of the curve here and 10 years from now this might be looked back on in a much more positive light, as a bold, progessive move.

Sadly it's probably true. We are looking at this from the perspective of seasoned Disney war veterans who have mastered "combat". From what I can see our biggest gripe is the loss of FP and how useless this all seems. But your average guest won't be missing those FPs, they will see this as a GIFT of 3 free FPs!!!

 

[DocMcHulk]

The original pro forma showed a huge upside and way lower cost than what's been incurred in reality. Based on the assumptions, the cost benefit analysis was tremendously positive. The failure was in the execution of bringing those assumptions to reality.

Original Plan:
Profits > Cost

Implementation:
Costs > Proffits

 

[bubbles1812]

Many elements now look like they will never ever get that green light in the first place. It just doesn't work. Even the programmers and engineers can't get a lot of it right, let alone front line functionality.

Slowly catching up on this thread... I know yor post shouldn't give me joy, and yet it does. Could have told the lovely executives at Disney the majority of it would never work. Now I'm not opposed to most of the NGE, FP+ excluded, but a lot of it never seemed practical or implementable when you thought about how things would function at the Guest/Front-line CM level. I wish they would stop sinking money it it... At a certain point it's time to jump ship. Very sad it will cause delays in things that, you know could actually help the parks.

 

[IWant2GoNow]

I'll never know the inner workings behind NGE or why they felt they should continually pour their funds into a blackhole, but I can only hope that NGE launches soon because I'm tired of discussing it. The damage has been done. There is absolutely nothing that is going to stop TDC from making this happen now. It may not work how they intended & be buggier than a stray dog at a flea cirucs, but they will use it.

I'd like to pose this question in light of a Walt-o-vision POV, what do they do going forward? That's what I'm most interested in. All this money is already spent, nothing we can do about it. What happens next? Do the suits sit back & watch NGE struggle & only think in the now or do they push forward & hopefully stride towards putting their resources into attractions again?

Spirit, I know you've said over & over that things would get worse before they get better, but when will be able to set sail on the winds of "Spirited" change? Even the DHS/DAK rumors don't seem to be enough to turn it around unless they really & truly have kept this under a tight lid & will wow us soon. If NGE ends up being dialed back & essentially a failure from what they intended it to be, will they pony up & begin constructing things? Or will they sink more & more money into it until it works correctly 5 years from now?

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

I think it would have been easier and cheaper to invent a device that physically lifts up the customer- errr, guest, (and their ECV) and literally SHAKE the money out of their pockets, purses, or bookbags. Then place the customer directly in line for a Dole whip.

 

[Magenta Panther]

The guest enhancements had some great potential, not the fast pass garbage but the RFID interacting with you in a que or in the middle of a ride... Pretty stinking cool idea... But obviously the big idea was the collecting data on guest trends and figuring out how to make us spend money.

You know what? I don't WANT to interact with a ride. I want to sit back and be entertained. I don't want to stomp my feet or clap on cue. I don't want to yell "AAAUUGGHH!" I don't want to watch fuzzy CGI scrim images of ghosts disfiguring my face (now if they want to ride in the car next to me, that's fine. That's relatively civilized and non-intrusive). I hate this damned interactive craze that TDO ripped off from freaking Romper Room. Forcing guests to be part of the show DOESN'T IMPROVE THE SHOW. Get a grip, TDO! Stop condescending to the guests! Study how Walt did things. Did he make audiences clap while watching Peter Pan ("Do you believe in fairies?") NO! He knew better! Geez, what's wrong with those people...

 

[Magenta Panther]

I tend to agree. Those of us who frequent Disney and theme park discussion boards and who visit quite regularly may or may not find elements of NextGen attractive or particulary useful, but we are not typical guests. Over a period of a month at work, I casually chatted with 14 people I know who visited WDW within the past 3 years (from 'way up here in Canada'). Since I am the 'Disney Guy' on staff, people will ask me to help plan trips for them, tell me what they liked, vent about what they didn't like, etc. Many of these familes are planning return trips (some in 2013) and they represent what I would call 'casual guests'. They'll go to WDW in 2 to 5 year intervals, don't know the names of all the attractions, have never been on any WDW boards, etc.

During our discussions, I noted a couple major elements of NextGen...fastpass+ and RFID braclets to hear what they thought. Without exception, every person thought these 2 things would be awesome! The most attractive element for all these people was the idea of reserving ride times. The gist of the comments was this: 'We don't go there that often, so it would be the best thing ever if we knew for sure that we could ride our fav attractions before we left for the parks. That would be so cool and allow us to relax and not feel so stressed or rushed. We could go whatever time of day we want too, and as long as we booked in advance, we could still do the things we like best'

I'm not saying that billions couldn't be better spent, but I think Disney is ahead of the curve here and 10 years from now this might be looked back on in a much more positive light, as a bold, progessive move.

You know what a cost-effective alternative to all the NextGen junk is? Park guests getting a freaking map of WDW and planning their day. There! I just saved TDO 1 billion dollars.

 

[Computer Magic]

Spirit, did you almost buy a house at Golden Oak?

this wasn't a trip where meals were planned out far ahead. I should probably point out that every meal I had on WDW property was, in essence, free for me. ...anyway...

If Mr. Spirit has the money for Golden Oak's then he should pick up a tab once in while :lol

 

[Computer Magic]

Actually, nothing major will be coming before late 2015 or 2016 at the earliest (Wishes replacement). Here's a quick tidbit. Pandora construction has been delayed not by WDI and not by Cameron, but by TDO to cover NGE cost overruns. There's some news you won't likely read elsewhere until folks start stealing it from here.

Will talk about DLR later, but they will be getting new product in both parks.

What about the Club 33 expansion rumor?

 

[bubbles1812]

I am IT guy for a large fortune 500 company.... the idea and thoughts behind the RFID and NextGen "stuff" to me is brilliant...and Disney is ahead of the game (compared to other theme parks) trying to pull this off. Because of this...they are learning as they go because they have nothing to go by in some regards.

I have no doubt, the RFID and NextGen can be a MAJOR hit with fans and for Disney's bank account... IF and only IF it is designed well, implemented well, supported well, and constantly updated as needed. They CAN do this... and they CAN make a big splash in to Disney innovation with this whole concept... it just needs the right management behind it and support from the CM's and fans to give it a shot.

Too many poo-poo'd on it because of cost right from the beginning thinking it was "taking away from designing new attractions" etc. when in some ways this IS an attraction in and of itself.

It's not an attraction... It's a data mining system designed so that Disney can get more of your money. Yes there are "perks" but tey aren't all that great. But as others have alreadyentioned... Disney has failed to do the majority of things necessary to make the system successful.

The CMs do not support it because they see how terrible the system is... We've had reports for months from people saying it isn't easily implementable. It should be a system that the majority of CMs can work with. It isn't.

And the guests... Well exactly how would you like us to react to the news that hat should have cost 1 billion is now costing 2-3 billion? And projects are getting delayed... Avatar now is if wasnt already. The real question is what's next in that department.... Because if costs continue to ride you can be sure that's what's going to happen. So I don't see how that "pooh-poohing" was exactly unfounded. Those predictions came true from people on here came true. It did just take away and/or delay attractions...

And again, NGE isn't any attraction. I'm not going to go to Disney because I can wear a wristband instead of keep a cars in my wallet.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I am IT guy for a large fortune 500 company.... the idea and thoughts behind the RFID and NextGen "stuff" to me is brilliant...and Disney is ahead of the game (compared to other theme parks) trying to pull this off. Because of this...they are learning as they go because they have nothing to go by in some regards.

I have no doubt, the RFID and NextGen can be a MAJOR hit with fans and for Disney's bank account... IF and only IF it is designed well, implemented well, supported well, and constantly updated as needed. They CAN do this... and they CAN make a big splash in to Disney innovation with this whole concept... it just needs the right management behind it and support from the CM's and fans to give it a shot.

Too many poo-poo'd on it because of cost right from the beginning thinking it was "taking away from designing new attractions" etc. when in some ways this IS an attraction in and of itself.

I am sure Disney thought they were getting ahead of the curve on this and this is the future of Theme parks. A couple of things they were probably looking at:

1. People are paying or subsciption based sites like Touring Plans. If some are willing to pay for this (as well as all the free Disney planning sites) consumers must find this valuable, so we as Disney can takeover the planning process for our visitors. In the meantime we can learn valuable information about our visitors which can...

2. Target our consumers more effectively. The future of advertising is not TV ads in today's DVR culture. The future is targeted ads on a vareity of platforms used from information gathered that all consumers willingly give up. The things we like on social media and the websites we visit are being used to create consumer profiles to better predict things we are interested in. This data mining is something Disney is very interested in and all the information we willing give them while planning our vacations is gold to them as they try and find more and more ways to extract as much money as they can. So after getting a Fastpass+ ride reservation to Little Mermaid, they can then sell us Little Mermaid merchandise. All of this data mining they use is creating a consumer profile for things each person is more likely to buy, therefore increasing the bottom line.

I'm sure the Exec's who were sold on this were completely unaware of the infrastructure involved in creating this monster and you better believe it was not apart of the sales pitch. Now they have created a monster and the only way to dig out is to dig deeper. Digging deep in a Florida swamp is a very dangerous proposition as they are finding out.

 

[ShookieJones]

I am IT guy for a large fortune 500 company.... the idea and thoughts behind the RFID and NextGen "stuff" to me is brilliant...and Disney is ahead of the game (compared to other theme parks) trying to pull this off. Because of this...they are learning as they go because they have nothing to go by in some regards.

I have no doubt, the RFID and NextGen can be a MAJOR hit with fans and for Disney's bank account... IF and only IF it is designed well, implemented well, supported well, and constantly updated as needed. They CAN do this... and they CAN make a big splash in to Disney innovation with this whole concept... it just needs the right management behind it and support from the CM's and fans to give it a shot.

Too many poo-poo'd on it because of cost right from the beginning thinking it was "taking away from designing new attractions" etc. when in some ways this IS an attraction in and of itself.

I get what you're saying when you say

"they are learning as they go".

They wouldn't be the first company to try to put technology out there and use the public's frustration to help tailor it to make it a better product, but I think you're WAY OFF when you say things like:

"Too many poo-poo'd on it because of cost right from the beginning thinking it was "taking away from designing new attractions" etc. when in some ways this IS an attraction in and of itself"

How is it an attraction onto itself? What's fun about data mining wrist bands and 3 fast passes a day?

They don't need to spend billions on Next Gen to figure out where and why guests are spending their money...It shouldn't matter -- if profit is what they want ---all they have to do is build world class attractions and experiences the way they used to. Do the things that got them where they are.

People were banging down Disney's doors yelling "Take my money please" back then and they will continue to do it.......IF they maintain the attractions they have, and start to build cutting edge attractions instead of band-aiding what they have and cutting corners wherever they can.

 

[GLaDOS]

I tend to agree. Those of us who frequent Disney and theme park discussion boards and who visit quite regularly may or may not find elements of NextGen attractive or particulary useful, but we are not typical guests. Over a period of a month at work, I casually chatted with 14 people I know who visited WDW within the past 3 years (from 'way up here in Canada'). Since I am the 'Disney Guy' on staff, people will ask me to help plan trips for them, tell me what they liked, vent about what they didn't like, etc. Many of these familes are planning return trips (some in 2013) and they represent what I would call 'casual guests'. They'll go to WDW in 2 to 5 year intervals, don't know the names of all the attractions, have never been on any WDW boards, etc.

During our discussions, I noted a couple major elements of NextGen...fastpass+ and RFID braclets to hear what they thought. Without exception, every person thought these 2 things would be awesome! The most attractive element for all these people was the idea of reserving ride times. The gist of the comments was this: 'We don't go there that often, so it would be the best thing ever if we knew for sure that we could ride our fav attractions before we left for the parks. That would be so cool and allow us to relax and not feel so stressed or rushed. We could go whatever time of day we want too, and as long as we booked in advance, we could still do the things we like best'

I'm not saying that billions couldn't be better spent, but I think Disney is ahead of the curve here and 10 years from now this might be looked back on in a much more positive light, as a bold, progessive move.

The FP+ isn't the problem.

The problem is Disney put this system in place to make billions, and as of right now that isn't panning out in the forecasts. Far from it. They spent more and will make less on it. They don't give a hoot if people like FP+ if it's not going to make them money.