Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[wdisney9000]

I think you misunderstand. I have a high opinion of the American public. And a very low one of your food industry and its Washington lobby.

Personal anecdote does not negate the statistic about an US obesity epidemic. This epidemic is not the result of personal choice as the Washington lobby would have you believe, but of a lack of personal choice. When presented with the choice to be overweight, or not, people choose the first. They are simply withheld the easonable means and options. If you buy normal food for a normal family at a normal supermarket that you prepare in a normal way, you get overweight in America. But not in Germany, Korea, Italy. Or America until recently. It nowadays takes superhuman effort to stay slim in America.

In America I gain a kilo a week. In France I lose a kilo a week. I am the same person eating the same amount.

[Thus ends today's course of 'how to lose friends and alienate people' 101 - talk endlessly about Big Food, the Washington lobby, and obesity rates!]

There is one personal choice people have in America when it comes to eating and that choice is PORTION CONTROL. You dont have to eat it ALL at once and inhale it in 5 minutes. I ordered a burrito and rice yesterday while watching the Falcons game. I ate less than half and saved the rest for later. As good as it was and i wanted to eat it all at once, I know that I do not NEED that much food so I saved some for later. Granted, there is a lot more to staying fit than portion control but its a start. Its 80% diet and 20% working out to stay in shape. You dont have to spend hours at the gym if you are eating healthy. Its not easy finding healthy food in America though,...thanks Monsanto, Syngenta, and DuPont.

Im amazed by how many people are not aware of what these companies are doing to our food supply and how hard they make it for REAL farms to survive and produce quality, healthy food. Just look at the revolving door Monsanto has with Washington D.C. Most of their executives are former high level politicians or vice versa. Its disgusting how they get away with it and the media never mentions it.

 

[asianway]

How exactly would Disney stop this? Ban strollers? Set an age limit or size limit for kids to use strollers?

Stop renting the double wides & get a smaller single for rent is a start-like at DL

 

[ToTBellHop]

A study in 2008 reported the exact opposite. Because healthy people live longer, they are the ones who add to the insurance costs. Smokers and the obese may have problems but don't live as long.

Presumably they are paying for insurance longer.

More important to insurance companies: a healthy 20-something is desirable to a fat 20-something. Insurance companies want to insure you until you start getting sick. Then they want to drop you (though that cannot occur any more).

 

[Goofyernmost]

Definition:
": one that enables another to achieve an end; especially: one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior"

'one who enables another ot persist in self-destructive behavior..' - The notion that by making the strollers so readily available encourages the behavior by 'making it possible to avoid the consequences'.

Enabler... 100% But the parents are still the ones who are participating in the analogous 'self-destructive behavior'. When you say 'Who is it that is making selfish decisions really. Those that use what is available to them or those that enable?"' The same people are making the decision regardless.

OK, I will admit to a bit of a broad brush statement with the "Who is it" question. It didn't come out the way I intended.

Not to long ago Disney actually made a massive change in stroller policy when the massively increased the cost of stroller rental. If I remember the reason it was based on the huge numbers of strollers being used in the parks. So, I will admit that they at least did try to not be quite so enabling. However, they made that change and it didn't stop the gigantic usage. If Disney really wanted to control it, they could limit the numbers of strollers available for rent and there for only the ones brought in would be extra. Many would find the hassle of bringing a stroller with them quite intense, with airlines, buses, etc. and would probably opt to letting the kids do some muscle flexing instead of butt callusing. My feeling is that at this point the accountants like the constant ringing of the cash register much more then they care about strollers in the parks. I guess if I had a cash cow, even a small one like that, I wouldn't want to lose it.

 

[Californian Elitist]

How exactly would Disney stop this? Ban strollers? Set an age limit or size limit for kids to use strollers?

I was thinking more like set a limit of strollers in one area. No need to ban strollers all together.

Those who are five and older and are being pushed around in a stroller need to walk.

 

[GoofGoof]

Stop renting the double wides & get a smaller single for rent is a start-like at DL

But the double rents for twice as much money...no way they are giving that profit up. I could see them trying to ban personal strollers and force people to rent the Disney ones. That wouldn't go over big but it would be profitable.

 

[SirLink]

How exactly would Disney stop this? Ban strollers? Set an age limit or size limit for kids to use strollers?

Set an age limit on strollers that Disney rent out, create a cloak room/locker room policed by staff for storage(where Disney can charge for), move the needle on what age child comes to WDW and make it older.

 

[GoofGoof]

Just some additional pics from the internet from Magic Kingdom parks around the world. Seems like Paris really is the only one without strollers. First 2 are DL (love the no stroller parking signs). Last one is Tokyo.

 

[flynnibus]

OK, I will admit to a bit of a broad brush statement with the "Who is it" question. It didn't come out the way I intended.

No worries - no issues with miscommunication if we clear it up Glad we both understand each other.

Not to long ago Disney actually made a massive change in stroller policy when the massively increased the cost of stroller rental. If I remember the reason it was based on the huge numbers of strollers being used in the parks. So, I will admit that they at least did try to not be quite so enabling. However, they made that change and it didn't stop the gigantic usage. If Disney really wanted to control it, they could limit the numbers of strollers available for rent and there for only the ones brought in would be extra

I'm sure the price setting had something to do with trying to influence behavior... but it sounds like one of those areas Disney is trying to balance their customer service expectations with their operational issues. The $$ stuff is just gravy that one department probably has to pay a good bit of it to other departments to pay for their added expenses due to the strollers.

One path would be just to not offer strollers. Force those who want them to bring their own. That would reduce the # of strollers and probably reduce the size of most as well.

IMO that is the most effective.. but not the most friendly customer service wise given Disney's past baseline.

 

[ford91exploder]

Presumably they are paying for insurance longer.

More important to insurance companies: a healthy 20-something is desirable to a fat 20-something. Insurance companies want to insure you until you start getting sick. Then they want to drop you (though that cannot occur any more).

No they can't cancel your insurance but they CAN deny you treatment other than pallative care.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The reason why your obesity(maybe not your personally of course) is other people's concern is simply we are paying for it. How much of my health insurance costs are being used towards obesity related illnesses. Depending on which studyies you listed to, anywhere from 40-150% higher costs in lifetime insurance billing based on obesity. That can be as much as $2800 a year average per person. That percentage is as much if not more than a smoker. In 2006 the dollar amount was an estimated 190 billion dollars a year. For someone like me, I would aprreciate my health care insurance was lower and given a pay raise instead since my companys costs would be lower.

So can people who drink, smoke, drive fast, take chances. Where's the indignation over that. I have heard that tired old garbage about how obesity raises health care rates too, and I am not buying it. As someone stated if the obesity problem is large enough they are not likely to have the long lingering illnesses that the "thin and allegedly healthy" do. I know that I have been basically "obese" for the vast majority of my 65 years. So far the only medical costs I have incurred were for Tonsils at age 5 (I was thin then), Carpel Tunnel out patient surgery, and a knee injury incurred via accident. I don't have heart issues, diabetes or any other problem that can be totally connected to my weight. And I have paid health insurance premiums for years and years and have hardly ever collected on any of that investment. We are paying for everyone's issues, be it obesity, alcoholism, family histories of genetic problems, you name it we all pay for that one way or the other and just because right now you might not be on the collecting end...things can change in a heartbeat. Those changes have the possibility of making the cost of caring for obese issues seem like chicken feed. Zeroing in on obesity as a cause for high insurance rates is not only incorrect, but mean spirited and short sighted as well.

 

[Goofyernmost]

No worries - no issues with miscommunication if we clear it up Glad we both understand each other.



I'm sure the price setting had something to do with trying to influence behavior... but it sounds like one of those areas Disney is trying to balance their customer service expectations with their operational issues. The $$ stuff is just gravy that one department probably has to pay a good bit of it to other departments to pay for their added expenses due to the strollers.

One path would be just to not offer strollers. Force those who want them to bring their own. That would reduce the # of strollers and probably reduce the size of most as well.

IMO that is the most effective.. but not the most friendly customer service wise given Disney's past baseline.

You know, my first visit to WDW 30 years ago was with my two kids. One was 7, one was 9. I don't remember seeing any strollers (although there must have been some), but I really don't remember seeing any Disney rental type strollers at all. I'm thinking that at one point in time they were not available from Disney. Yet they survived.

 

[GoofGoof]

I was thinking more like set a limit of strollers in one area. No need to ban strollers all together.

Those who are five and older and are being pushed around in a stroller need to walk.

That picture was from Fantasyland in MK probably during one of the busy summer months. It may have also been during construction of New Fantasyland and Tangled Toilets. The Tangled Toilets took over an area that was the old skyway station that was being used for stroller parking. During construction there were less places to park strollers. I think you would have a hard time telling guests with little kids they can't go to Fantasyland since the stroller parking is full. It's where you will almost always see the largest concentration of strollers parked.

Set an age limit on strollers that Disney rent out, create a cloak room/locker room policed by staff for storage(where Disney can charge for), move the needle on what age child comes to WDW and make it older.

The lockers might help some.

If you set an age limit on strollers rented out (lets say under 5 years old - not my suggestion, just for arguments sake) then anyone who wants to use a stroller and has a child 5 or over will just rent them from one of the companies that rents strollers outside of WDW or they will bring their own. You also have the issue of enforcement. Do I need to bring my kid's birth certificate as proof he is under 5? What if I have 2 kids 3 and 6 and I rent a stroller for the 3 year old. Should a CM stop and question me if my 6 year old takes a turn riding in the stroller?

Isn't it easier to just have some stroller parking areas set aside that are maintained by CMs to ensure that strollers are not blocking walkways or create crowd flow issues?

They are moving the needle on what age child comes to WDW, but not in the direction you want.

 

[flynnibus]

You know, my first visit to WDW 30 years ago was with my two kids. One was 7, one was 9. I don't remember seeing any strollers (although there must have been some), but I really don't remember seeing any Disney rental type strollers at all. I'm thinking that at one point in time they were not available from Disney. Yet they survived.

The same could be said for a lot of things Unfortunately saying 'your parents survived without...' doesn't work for this generation. And why we have the 'greatest generation' and the downhill slide since..

 

[PhotoDave219]

I don't disagree some people bring more stuff than I would into the parks, but its still a sweeping generalization to say that the strollers in that picture are the result of selfish patents or lazy kids.

I get that people without little kids would prefer if there were no strollers in the parks at all. It would mean less people so less lines. We all would prefer things to be tailored to our exact needs. At the end of the day I just don't see how the strollers have such a negative impact on people's vacations. Could they replace stroller parking with some benches or just open space? Sure, but would that really improve the experience to a large degree? Maybe if the answer is yes people should try DLP which according to the picture posted has very few strollers. Vegas is nice too.

I never said the kids were lazy.

The parents? Well......

 

[flynnibus]

It's where you will almost always see the largest concentration of strollers parked.

another great example is outside the Land and EPCOT.. because EPCOT has lots of indoor spaces, but they force people to park their strollers outside (except innovations it seems).

 

[GoofGoof]

I never said the kids were lazy.

The parents? Well......

Not you personally, but a few pages back the discussion around obesity started with someone stating something along the lines of the use of strollers is the reason for childhood obesity. It's apparently only an American problem, except for Portland

 

[njDizFan]

So can people who drink, smoke, drive fast, take chances. Where's the indignation over that. I have heard that tired old garbage about how obesity raises health care rates too, and I am not buying it. As someone stated if the obesity problem is large enough they are not likely to have the long lingering illnesses that the "thin and allegedly healthy" do. I know that I have been basically "obese" for the vast majority of my 65 years. So far the only medical costs I have incurred were for Tonsils at age 5 (I was thin then), Carpel Tunnel out patient surgery, and a knee injury incurred via accident. I don't have heart issues, diabetes or any other problem that can be totally connected to my weight. And I have paid health insurance premiums for years and years and have hardly ever collected on any of that investment. We are paying for everyone's issues, be it obesity, alcoholism, family histories of genetic problems, you name it we all pay for that one way or the other and just because right now you might not be on the collecting end...things can change in a heartbeat. Those changes have the possibility of making the cost of caring for obese issues seem like chicken feed. Zeroing in on obesity as a cause for high insurance rates is not only incorrect, but mean spirited and short sighted as well.

Well since this tangent is about obesity that was the issue I was addressing. Yes smoking incurs high costs, driving fast and leading a dangerous lifestyle well let's not get into hyperbole.

I understand that you are currently healthy...great, hopefully for a long long time. but be honest, do you honestly not believe that being obese and severely obese is a health risk? How many obese 80 years old do you see? some sure...but the vast majority of people who stay thinner will live longer and have less health issues as they age. do you deny these facts?

And as the obese America is aging we will certainly see even higher costs.

And of course the end of life costs are high and by percentage the higher health costs in the last year of your life than the entire previous. that also must be addressed but this topic was specifically about obesity.

Mean spirited...I think not. All of our life's choices will effect the greater whole when sharing a cost basis but there is definately a link to my health insurance costs and obesity.

 

[CDavid]

Stop renting the double wides & get a smaller single for rent is a start-like at DL

Although it may not seem like much, switching to a smaller model of stroller - single or double - would help the problem; You can get more of them in the same parking area, they take up less "floor space" moving through the parks, etc. As for the doubles, one of them should be more compact than two singles, and so every one of those rented (versus two singles) reduces the total number in the park.

 

[lebeau]

For those non parents who hate seeing strollers everywhere, I think 99% of you would change your mind about it if you had to deal with a young child or toddler...

Bingo! Next topic!

People without kids should be flogged any time they share their thoughts on parenting. Until you raise a child, you know nothing. Shut up.