Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[misterID]

Well, if you have seen my posts in the past you would know just how wrong you are. I have been highly critical of a lot of stuff that Disney has done. What concerns me is that collectively people are calling out those that chose not to be critical and point out the positives.

You are assuming that they know something is lousy. I can tell you that my outlook on Disney was always positive. When I started following the basic Disney discussion boards in the late 90's or early 2000's, don't remember exactly, I did it because the sites made me feel good and helped me get through some tough personal times. I am so glad that this site didn't exist back then (or at least I didn't know that) because it would have placed the real world right inside my wheelhouse. I didn't want to see that. Disney sells fantasy, why wouldn't they want to support those that help with their mission. It seems silly to expect anything else.

We all see things differently. Your perspective is not the same as mine. They enjoy Disney for what they see as positives. Will being catered to by Disney, taint their overall view of the product? Probably, but so what? Why do they need to point out the flaws. If you can tell me that Disney currently contains more flaws then good, then there might be an argument, however, to line up on the dark side isn't anymore accurate a communication then the other way around. That is where they sit, others sit on the opposite end. Neither is wrong, just a different approach. I would think that they have the right to express how they see things just as much as someone more negative does without being called names or considered mentally ill. They serve a purpose and are filling the roll. It seems that they would have to have a really valid reason to be excited enough about something to be positive about it on their own time. If they are making a living off it, then like any other job, they support what supports them. If you worked for a company and told your clients that the company is great, but, the CEO has a drinking problem and we think he has his hand in the cash drawer, how long will you be working for that company.

If you tell anyone that doesn't follow Disney like we do about your participation on these boards for hours on end, you will see some rolling eyes. Are they correct? Hell, no! But they are not of the same mindset and they refer to their own mindset and might just think you are mentally ill. Are you? I don't know you, but probably not. You just feel passionately about something just as these people that all are so quick to judge do. My whole basis of having this discussion is that I strongly feel that people can or, at least should, be able to do what they enjoy without being called names or given labels. Especially from us!

Again, I think you're taking this too personal, and your post reflects that. I don't care about the blogs. I'm making a simple statement that once you accept gifts and perks, you are automatically tainted, in my eyes. That doesn't have to reflect your thoughts.

If you and others were cool with people thinking a different way, there wouldn't be the patronizing , dismissive attempts you contradict other's opinions in this thread.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm using the video game industry as an example of one of the most notorious examples of biased, manipulated producer/media relations....... I think you may have misread/misinterpreted my post.

Ok

But most companies do NOT operate openly and fairly. There is little motivation to do so. Most try to maintain some front of fairness... but they have no need to invite someone who is severely critical or biased against them. Most do it because they want to try to improve upon the relations with the person and get them to see the light. If the person shows they are just going to be negative and unreceptive... they'll be ignored by the company.

In every industry there are the outlets you have to play nice with.. regardless of their position. The company doesn't deal with them because they have honesty and integrity... they do it to avoid being excluded entirely from things they want to be apart of.

 

[Clever Name]

Generally the gift provider is looking for future promotion... however the gift receiver is not obligated to provide it.

The problem is when the receiver becomes DEPENDENT on the gift provider... now the balance of power has changed.

It's not this absolute about 'if you take swag -- you're biased' -- it's about manipulation through the gifts.

It's really bribery. So far the Internet has not had a great deal of government regulation. The activities we have discussed here will cause that to change. I see the FCC and other regulatory bodies becoming more involved at least in the USA.

 

[WDW1974]

15 pages and Mrs. Ricky Brigante here ... Were those cookies worth missing the fun?

Yeah, I think so.

I also hope other spouses, friends and bloggers themselves join MAGIC and talk about Disney and the business. To me, that is what social media and networking should be about. Not simply spinning a company's talking points for freebies.

But i don't think Mrs. Ricky's righteous indignation is today's story.

Check out today's comments regarding UNI's parks going forward by Steve Burke and then tell me that, yes, I was right. I like that.

And then tell yourself that giant data mining and trip planning tech improvements is the smart way to compete.

 

[flynnibus]

Again, I think you're taking this too personal, and your post reflects that. I don't care about the blogs. I'm making a simple statement that once you accept gifts and perks, you are automatically tainted, in my eyes. That doesn't have to reflect your thoughts.

You think everyone who accepts swag is tainted?? Please never goto a trade show or industry event... you're in for a major disappointment of what you think the world looks like.

 

[danlb_2000]

Problem is you and I may be able to read a blog and interpret it as such because we know the background, but Jane or John Doe browsing the internet may not be as informed.

That is why full disclosure is necessary.

If people are reading anything on the internet without bringing some critical thinking into play then they have a much bigger problem. I agree that full disclosure is a good thing, but the reality is that the motivations behind 99% of what is posted on the internet is not plainly evident.

 

[ford91exploder]

Enthusiasts - best word used in the thread so far. That's what a majority of these sites are. And this applies to most hobbies... they all benefit from special 'insider' perks or access and generally will take it when available. If that alters their product to the point where people don't like the content.. they'll leave. That's the balance the site owner has to manage. Many do go the 'evil' route and start trying to shape the message in their community as well. And again, if people don't like that, they'll leave.
That's what WDWMagic is.. an enthusiast's site. And part of the reasons people like it is that the site owner does not try to manipulate the acceptable opinions in its community. I don't think I've ever seen a critical commentary on WDWMagic's front page... and that's because that's not the product he's offering.

Correct but unlike a certain D/I/S site the mods here do not spend all their time scouring all critical comments from the forums... This is WDWMagic not WDW Curmudgeon afterall But there are many threads here critical of the current state of the parts/resorts

 

[maxairmike]

You think everyone who accepts swag is tainted?? Please never goto a trade show or industry event... you're in for a major disappointment of what you think the world looks like.

Ever wonder why everyone in the industry seems to love Dippin' Dots? Free and open servings at IAAPA! Seriously though, trade shows are a great example. This is not an easy, cut and dry issue. I've been on both sides of the fence and think a few here are taking it over the top, but I understand why they're doing it. I think a few are understating things, and I also understand it. I think the "goodie bag brigade" (I rather like that phrase, @PhotoDave219) is contemptible, but I'm not sure I'd lump some into it that Spirit or others have. I have no issue with giving bloggers and others free stuff, but the way Disney handles the whole thing is very much...unsettling and unbecoming of the company, that is for sure.

 

[Stevek]

Comments suggestiong people are 'on the spectrum' aren't inferring mental disabilities like Autism?? riiiiggghhhtt...

Don't direct that at me. I didn't say it nor did I suggest anyone was mentally ill. There was a very funny drunk bearded guy though.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Ever wonder why everyone in the industry seems to love Dippin' Dots? Free and open servings at IAAPA! Seriously though, trade shows are a great example. This is not an easy, cut and dry issue. I've been on both sides of the fence and think a few here are taking it over the top, but I understand why they're doing it. I think a few are understating things, and I also understand it. I think the "goodie bag brigade" (I rather like that phrase, @PhotoDave219) is contemptible, but I'm not sure I'd lump some into it that Spirit or others have. I have no issue with giving bloggers and others free stuff, but the way Disney handles the whole thing is very much...unsettling and unbecoming of the company, that is for sure.

I know for a fact that a larger Disney-based media outlet that is way larger than a blog, Is no longer credentialed because they were asking tough questions at media events.

Instead Of actually addressing those questions, team Disney Orlando chose to fill these so-called media events with people who would not ask Those sorts of questions.

 

[misterID]

If that really was a problem - then the readers would lose faith in the content and stop believing in it. Not every site nor ever reader is looking for a critic.



That's your assumption - but you're assuming things the site may not have any intention on providing. Critical or not... objectivity is a CHOICE, not a standard for participation. Al Lutz is not unbiased, nor is he particularly objective. But he had a product, and commentary that readers continued to goto him for.

It's the readers that decide what they want to hear about and they will come and go as they please. what product the content provider puts out, and what level of critique or objectivity they offer is also their choice. What readers ultimately decide what they like or not is going to be up to the reader.

Sometimes I read entertainment sites... sometimes I read critical commentary. I don't hate on NFL Memes because they aren't objective when it comes to the NY Jets. The point is to be funny. If I want objective critical commentary, I don't goto an entertainment site to get it.

They should really put you on their next party list, Flynn.

Again, for another time, if that's what you want, they are giving it to you. If you're visting that site for an independent, objective opinion, that is a problem. It's like companies who create phony blogs to only gush over a product. Or a movie studio creating an imaginary critic to rave over their bad films. Or a company giving gifts to real bloggers to influence them and make them look good. There's a purpose and a result. If there wasn't, they wouldn't do it, and they wouldn't apologize when they get caught.

The difference between Al Lutz is that every reader knows he has been critical. They know he will put out news that is sometimes ugly. He will post information about behind the scenes stuff the bloggers here would never post. That's why people visited his site.

 

[WDW1974]

Posts about the blog event, which I attended, were brought to my attention. I simply logged in to reply to your comment and a few others. If you have something you'd like to say to me, please go ahead. And yes, it's at night. We don't go to bed until 3 am at the earliest. So if you want to discuss why you called my husband a , go ahead. I didn't ask for an explanation. I just know how hard he works on his site, which is free to you buy the way, so it's seems a little harsh to call him a . I think he deserves a few freebies every now and again. You don't think he deserves it or works hard enough for it?

I think that whomever from the Grill meet-and-eat crowd who put you up to posting here (and I have a few ideas from the blogging community and even pals from Celebration Place) set you up.

I would only suggest that they had other motives at play and not your or Ricky's best interests at heart.

I'd also suggest that regardless of where your husband falls on the media spectrum (and I have seen FOX travel stories with his name on them and they almost count as legit media), it is never a good idea to come onto a forum and say that your husband is not a professional. He absolutely is. A professional what is more of the question.

 

[flynnibus]

Correct but unlike a certain D/I/S site the mods here do not spend all their time scouring all critical comments from the forums... This is WDWMagic not WDW Curmudgeon afterall But there are many threads here critical of the current state of the parts/resorts

Which is why many people don't goto DIS... hence the self-correcting nature of the system. Censorship only works when you have complete control... otherwise the lack of open discussion causes alienation and people who value that will defect to another product. DIS is free to offer the product they chose.. WDWMagic offers the product they chose.

We as consumers get to pick what environment we value more.

 

[WDW1974]

And as others here are saying, you absolutely can be a blogger who loves WDW and attempts to make it better by posting legit criticism of the resort and its leadership and NOT whoring.

That's what Al Lutz built a second career doing in Anaheim.

But blogging and being a lifestyler that is 'on the list' requires being a BRAND advocate. That is what all these Mommy Bloggers are as well.

 

[WDW1974]

No, Inside the Magic started out as a hobby. We definitely do not live off of what Ricky makes from his podcast/website/videos.

I sorta figured money wasn't an issue for you guys when I was told where Ricky went to high school!

 

[flynnibus]

If you're visting that site for an independent, objective opinion, that is a problem

I don't.. and actually I haven't read most blogs in ages since Google Reader was shutdown and I really haven't found an alternative I like.

It's like companies who create phony blogs to only gush over a product. Or a movie studio creating an imaginary critic to rave over their bad films. Or a company giving gifts to real bloggers to influence them and make them look good. There's a purpose and a result. If there wasn't, they wouldn't do it, and they wouldn't apologize when they get caught.

You lump things together that are not the same. Shilling is NOT the same as influencing. Creating false representation is an entirely different league than swag or influencing. Those are world's apart. One is bias, the other is LIES.

The difference between Al Lutz is that every reader knows he has been critical. They know he will put out news that is sometimes ugly. He will post information about behind the scenes stuff the bloggers here would never post. That's why people visited his site.

Being critical does not make you objective or balanced. You can just hate on something day after day and be critical and be the most ill informed, biased, slanted idiot in the west. The standard referred to here constantly was that of journalists.. and Lutz would be the first one to tell you he wasn't a journalist. Why? Because he didn't want to be held to those standards and be judged for failing to meet them. He was a great example of a popular site that had nothing to do with Journalism.. and everything to do with providing content readers were interested in hearing about. Commentary, insider news, and reporting on activities of the company people were interested in. All things he did without having to be a journalist or objective. And yet most here would line up to shake his hand.

 

[flynnibus]

Don't direct that at me. I didn't say it nor did I suggest anyone was mentally ill. There was a very funny drunk bearded guy though.

Sorry - my mistake on identities.

 

[misterID]

You think everyone who accepts swag is tainted?? Please never goto a trade show or industry event... you're in for a major disappointment of what you think the world looks like.

We're not talking swag here, though. I got a lot of free stuff. I've gotten free stuff from Disney and UNI when I was a kid. It was all stuff to help promote their property. It is different if you're operating your business or blog specifically to get the treats. Bloggers are actually more vulnerable than anyone, imo.

And in our case, one of the theme park giants got mighty upset when we wouldn't choose them over the other in our coverage and marketing, despite some of the perks they were offering...

 

[RSoxNo1]

Ricky is only brought up because he has the only representation here. My biggest beef is that no one in that room has or will ever say to a higher up "what are you doing to better our experience?". Your product is stale and tired. Your parks are a glimmer of what they once were... Fix it fix the yeti, announce a new IP. Give us the next attraction that people will love without taking one away.

It seems these bloggers take their perks and smile and don't discuss major issues.

This is also my biggest objection as well. If you have the access and opportunities, tough questions can and should be asked where appropriate. Like it or not, @skippyrules104, your husband has been given this access. To my knowledge he doesn't have media training but is put in a similar position to people that do have that training. That means that certain things are expected of him.

Having said that, I will defend Ricky in saying that he is far more objective than most of the people that get these freebies and as far as I can recall, he usually mentions "gifts" on his show.

 

[Captain Chaos]

You know what's funny? WDW Magic members who are obsessed with 74, always trolling his threads (yes, they are trolling, too bad if you or anyone else don't like that being used, TROLLING) to the point of OBSESSION, then trying to mock him as being obsessed with mentally ill bloggers...

Some of these members need professional mental help...