Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[WDW1974]

No one. Which is why 74 should have left this particular line of attack in the can. None of us give a damn.

BS. If no one cared, I wouldn't have awakened to five pages of posts talking about it. Most (sadly) either restating the obvious: Disney just uses family values as a convenient excuse. It really doesn't wish to take on mega-casino resorts for business. ... Or they act as if Marvel characters are somehow different from every other Disney IP and can be used in a business that Disney vehemently opposes and runs totally counter to the company's squeaky clean image.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but if you feel this isn't a potential minefield of problems for The Mouse you are dead wrong.

 

[nytimez]

It would be nice if every once in a while people who feel a topic isn't worthy of discussion would prove it by not discussing it. Would certainly make the thread a little easier to follow.

 

[WDW1974]

It would be nice if every once in a while people who feel a topic isn't worthy of discussion would prove it by not discussing it. Would certainly make the thread a little easier to follow.

But where would the fun be in that?

I'm starting to think I should go into trip planning threads and start telling the folks how stupid they are for giving their money to the Mouse ...or dining threads where I tell everyone they have no taste if they like Be Our Guest (that is true).

That's the same mindset at play here. And much of it is very poorly disguised attempts to discredit me or the info I post.

 

[MattM]

Is it? From this article:

http://epublicgaming.com/index.php?...-instant-games-&catid=30:us-lottery&Itemid=30

"Alpharetta, GA – November 16, 2011 – MDI Entertainment, LLC, a subsidiary of Scientific Games, has reached an agreement with Marvel Entertainment, LLC, to offer instant lottery games featuring characters and themes from the widely anticipated film “Marvel’s The Avengers,” due for release on May 4, 2012"

This was about a year after Disney acquired Marvel so this was not a contract that existed pre-Disney.

Because they are the only player in the slot machine game, right?

 

[WDWDad13]

to those who are defending the gambling thing: why?

at the very least, it's brand dilution: slapping trademarked likenesses on things that aren't consistent with your company's public image. at the very most, it's a poorly-veiled attempt to market gambling to children. i don't get why it's hard to figure out.

couldn't one make the same argument with selling alcoholic beverages in Disney parks and cruise ships?

I mean c'mon people... are we just looking for anything we can to bash Disney about these days?

 

[WDWDad13]

But where would the fun be in that?

I'm starting to think I should go into trip planning threads and start telling the folks how stupid they are for giving their money to the Mouse ...or dining threads where I tell everyone they have no taste if they like Be Our Guest (that is true).

That's the same mindset at play here. And much of it is very poorly disguised attempts to discredit me or the info I post.

sounds like more than anything... you need a vacation to work out your Disney demons

 

[danlb_2000]

Because they are the only player in the slot machine game, right?

Not sure what your point is? Unless I misread some posts, the discussion was why can Disney get out of gambling contracts and not the contract with Uni. The article I quoted shows that at least one of the gambling contracts was not pre-existing so Disney (via Marvel) chose to get into to the contract.

 

[misterID]

If it makes anyone feel better, when Disney screwed up my reservation, and three different people working at reservations and guests relations were completely rude, patronizing idiotic buttheads, I had a very nice executive contact me and take care of all my problems in one swoop and was incredibly magical. She saved Disney my ridiculously over-priced dollars from UNI (for now, heh, heh). See, Disney can do things right.

Alas, we never got to use our "we're trading in our fairy Godmother for a Wizard!" line, but it's coming!

 

[misterID]

couldn't one make the same argument with selling alcoholic beverages in Disney parks and cruise ships?

I mean c'mon people... are we just looking for anything we can to bash Disney about these days?

Would you be okay with a Mickey shaped Coors bottle, with his big smiling face on the label?

Once you start deliberately marketing your characters (MARVEL, DC) to children with animated shows and merch, etc. you're putting yourself in a position of saying these are family friendly IPs, geared towards kids and families. They aren't putting Kick characters on any slot machines. Joe Camel got killed because he was a cartoon... And kids love cartoons... So it's a message to kids that smoking is good. What does the message send when you see one gambling?

Yes, MARVEL has a lot of mature-themed characters and comics, great ones too, but they aren't pimping their IPs out to kids, either.

 

[ford91exploder]

Well, "Class Action" lawsuits are all the rage right now. You could spearhead one with me and a few others here and we could make out like bandits. Dues are not to be used as a profit bearing revenue stream and are governed by state real estate laws. So as some of the experts here are stating that dues are making a profit for the company, it stands to reason that we can use their "insider" information to make some cash. Here is an attorney that seems to be all about this http://www.paulplatte.com/timeshare-attorney/orlando/ .

While the above paragraph is in jest, there is some desire to pursue some transparency. Disney's official dues use statement is vague. Attorneys don't like vague. Their official FAQ on the matter is vague. I have posted it in italics below for your perusal.

What do my Annual Dues cover?

Your Annual Dues are applied to a variety of vital interests, including:
Operating Expenses
Housekeeping, transportation (if applicable), Front Desk services, maintenance, utilities and more
Administrative Expenses
Management and reservation services, insurance, some Member mailings and more
Refurbishment Expenses
Updating and maintaining interiors, exteriors, common areas and more
Real Estate Taxes
Property taxes due to governmental agencies where your Home Resort is located

In short, your Annual Dues keep Disney Vacation Club running smoothly and the Disney Vacation Club Resorts looking great.

You can see where your Annual Dues payment goes by viewing your Annual Dues Statement.

If my math is correct, Disney is receiving near $16M this year alone in dues for BLT. Is that money all going into the areas that are stated in the FAQ?

So getting back to my joke about a "Class Action" lawsuit, I need to hire several "experts" in this thread as expert witnesses. They can clearly explain the various types of financial fraud perpetrated by the DVD "et alia" and land initial complainants a load of cash. Anyone want to sign up for that? The burden of proof looks to be overwhelmingly in our favor.

Again, the above paragraph is in jest. I will, however, be at the annual members meeting this year and will pursue questions about the specifics of dues and fees. I will also be reviewing my previous purchase contracts and sharing my concerns with my real estate attorney here in AZ. I am curious what management fees are charged as a specific percentage. I would also like an extensive explanation of "capital reserves" as it looks like a holding account for upgrades.

*1023*

I'm in agreement that a Class Action may be in order here.

Capital reserves is small compared to the management fees and as I understand it it is a holding account for capital upgrades and repairs due to storm damage etc.

 

[Keys Please]

I have a hard time believing that Disney allows any acquired entity to act fully independently from the Mouse brand.

 

[Goofyernmost]

BS. If no one cared, I wouldn't have awakened to five pages of posts talking about it. Most (sadly) either restating the obvious:

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but if you feel this isn't a potential minefield of problems for The Mouse you are dead wrong.

But where would the fun be in that?

I'm starting to think I should go into trip planning threads and start telling the folks how stupid they are for giving their money to the Mouse ...or dining threads where I tell everyone they have no taste if they like Be Our Guest (that is true).

That's the same mindset at play here. And much of it is very poorly disguised attempts to discredit me or the info I post.

I don't see people trying to discredit your info. Not a soul said that there were no gambling machines that had Marvel characters on them or for the most part even that Disney was aware and in doing so abandoned the business of the Parks and the reputation for family entertainment. What troubles some is the interpretation that you lately have been placing on everything. That is somewhat of a departure from your usual straight forward information. Presenting information is wonderful, but what people are reacting to is the attempt to tell us what that means for our lives or our feelings about Disney. And it would seem to me that a discussion forum is the perfect place to have disagreement concerning one persons interpretation vs. some other. Otherwise it is no longer a discussion board, but, instead becomes a "this is what happened, this is what is going to happen because of it and I am not entertaining any other possibilities board". I know that you don't seem to think that you need to defend your opinions because you are, well, the "spirit", but if people are saying that your opinion may have a flaw (not your info) you either argue the point or by not saying anything actually reinforce their points. Contrary to popular belief no one has to agree with you about anything.

If you and a few others can seriously live in today's world and think that it is unexpected that a company the size of Disney will pass up opportunities to make money when it is only those of us that are for some unexplainable reason immersed in and fixated on Disney even know Disney owns is going to cause any great big whup, that concerns me. Just because we have an intellectual interest doesn't mean that the rest of humanity gives a damn about it. You wonder aloud as to why the media hasn't taken the information and run with it, thereby exposing Disney as the den of dishonesty and conspiracy that you believe that they are. I can tell you why, it's because there isn't a story, nobody cares, nobody sees any part of it as harmful to themselves personally. Marvel hurting the mouse. Not a chance. Most will not even relate it to the mouse. Case in point, Disney has owned the Muppet franchise for many years now. What percentage of the people that aren't Disney obsessed even think of them as Disney. Does the name Jim Henson ring a bell of recognition concerning the Muppets? You can bet that is the only name that the majority of the public connects to the Muppets. Marvel, for now, is it's own entity and, it appears from what all those in the know have said, they don't seem to be in any particular hurry to morph it into similar identities.

If all you can do to defend your opinions is to just accuse others of attempting to discredit you, then you are actually doing more to prove that then they are.

 

[ford91exploder]

Whether you believe that DVC or the people who bought into it are stupid is irrelevant to this discussion. You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't care to spend any time debating that opinion with you. You are changing the perspective to the economics for the guest who buys into DVC vs the original perspective of Disney's economic incentive as a company. Your original point (which you repeated again above) was that Disney doesn't need to add to the parks since DVC members are locked in to a 40 to 50 year contract. From Disney's perspective this portion of guests is not significant enough to be able to just ignore the other guests. There is no way they simply say we have 5 to 10% of our guests locked in so who cares about the other 90-95% coming back. It makes no sense from a business prospective. No matter how dumb you think the DVC owners are this is a fact that isn't going to change unless they build a whole lot of additional DVC rooms and that number gets into the 60%+ range. We have a long way to go to get close to that.

Anyway, here's some additional facts (anti-numbers people look away)
Here is the breakdown of fees for BLT:
Admin/Front Desk 0.4681
Annual Audit 0.0025
DVC Resevation 0.0059
Fees to Division 0.005
Housekeeping 0.8502
Income Taxes 0.0137
Insurance 0.0847
Legal 0.0002
Maintenance 0.4538
Mgmt Fee 0.3361
Member Activities 0.1547
Security 0.0347
Transportation 0.2859
Utilities 0.2504
OPERATING EXPENSE 2.9459
Int Income (0.0016)
Late Fees (0.0172)
Breakage Income (0.0878)
MEMBER OPERATING ASSESSMENT 2.8393
Capital Reserves 0.5836
Ad Valorem Taxes 1.0743
TOTAL DUES 4.4972

Assuming a 20 point per night average the management fee that you say is "pure profit" equates to $6.72 per night. The entire management fee works out to less than $2M in a year. Not exactly a windfall or a reason to stop caring about the parks. Close to 40% of the dues go to 2 items, the capital reserve which is basically an escrow account that can only be used for future major improvements to the resort and taxes which Disney has to pass on. They don't make any profit on those items. The majority of operating expense items are costs to operate the resort. In a resort like BLT some of the expenses are shared expenses with the existing property. They pay a portion of the transportation expense for the Contemporary resort. Why shouldn't they. The people staying there are using the monorail, boats and buses. Some of the costs are variable and some are more fixed. CR benefits from sharing some of the fixed costs with BLT since their operating costs go down, but it is again not a profit windfall and not the economic incentive to build DVC units.

There are 5.5 Million points in BLT alone,

2.83 x 5,500,000 = 15,565,000 I'd say fifteen Million Five Hundred and Sixty Five Thousand Reasons is reason enough to play games

HouseKeeping 4,675,000 for 150 rooms!!!!, Come on the high average for room service for a top of line hotel is only $30/day and that includes robes, chocolates and turndown service

using the $30/day metric we come up with 1,645,000, Methinks the housekeeping budget is supporting ENTIRE RESORT.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think Disney realized some time ago they can't get rid of "free" dining, so they've upped the rack rate to compensate. Now, they've jumped so high so quickly that even people who believe free dining is a real value are having second thoughts.

People are gullible... but they ain't that gullible.

The 'Free Dining' is just an evolution of the old 'American Plan' ie meals were included in your hotel stay, There is no reason Disney could not bake in a basic dining plan to the onsite resorts, But with this 'Blue Ocean' Bravo-Sierra floating around (simile intended) they want to create artificial scarcity at the Deluxe resorts in hope of ratcheting up rates globally. Meanwhile odd things are happening with DVC availability. Arrrgghhh

 

[Ignohippo]

Would you be okay with a Mickey shaped Coors bottle, with his big smiling face on the label?

Once you start deliberately marketing your characters (MARVEL, DC) to children with animated shows and merch, etc. you're putting yourself in a position of saying these are family friendly IPs, geared towards kids and families. They aren't putting Kick characters on any slot machines. Joe Camel got killed because he was a cartoon... And kids love cartoons... So it's a message to kids that smoking is good. What does the message send when you see one gambling?

Yes, MARVEL has a lot of mature-themed characters and comics, great ones too, but they aren't pimping their IPs out to kids, either.

Um, have you seen Avengers Assembled or the new Hulk Family show on Disney XD? Complete garbage pandering to the tiniest of little ones. Both are horrible, horrible shows.

If they aren't pimping these characters out to kids, I don't know what would be.

 

[ford91exploder]

Um, have you seen Avengers Assembled or the new Hulk Family show on Disney XD? Complete garbage pandering to the tiniest of little ones. Both are horrible, horrible shows.

If they aren't pimping these characters out to kids, I don't know what would be.

Total trash, WHY can't Disney do more stuff like Phineas and Ferb reminds me of when I was building radios and other stuff from old TV parts (love the aren't you too young to be building X, Yes yes I am...) running gag and the other subplots

 

[flynnibus]

Once you start deliberately marketing your characters (MARVEL, DC) to children with animated shows and merch, etc. you're putting yourself in a position of saying these are family friendly IPs, geared towards kids and families. They aren't putting Kick characters on any slot machines. Joe Camel got killed because he was a cartoon... And kids love cartoons... So it's a message to kids that smoking is good. What does the message send when you see one gambling?

What message did you get when Monopoly was the top slot machine? (BTW there are 40+ versions of Monopoly slot machines now)
Or how about many other board games aimed at children?
Clue?
Yatzee?

They all have slots games. Has the image of these brands been tarnished?

Or how about other properties like..
WIlly Wonka and the Chocolate Factory? (based on the Gene Wilde film)
Lookout.. Superman (based on the movies) and the DC Comic version are in slots..
The Wizard of Oz?
Goldilocks and the 3 bears?
Star Trek?

All have slots released in the last 2 years.

Can you name any of the above properties as being tarnished or stained in the public's eye because of their use of the IP in gaming?

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

I think all I'm trying to figure out here is how exactly putting Marvel characters on slot machines is in any way equivalent to pushing gambling on children?

How exactly are these children in a place where they can even see the slot machines?

Honest question.

Sidenote: Any casino I've ever been to also has Wizard of Oz, Batman, and Star Wars slots... should we not be mad about these properties "pushing" gambling on children? Why only hold Disney to this strange standard?

Sometimes I really think that there is a lot of grasping at straws to find things to pick at the Mouse over. All it really seems to do is drown out the bigger (more important) picture of things that are actually flawed in the company.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

But where would the fun be in that?

I'm starting to think I should go into trip planning threads and start telling the folks how stupid they are for giving their money to the Mouse ...or dining threads where I tell everyone they have no taste if they like Be Our Guest (that is true).

That's the same mindset at play here. And much of it is very poorly disguised attempts to discredit me or the info I post.

Why is it that any time somebody holds a different belief or a different opinion than you do, they're suddenly just trying to discredit you and your information or disrail your threads? I honestly mean no disrespect by this question, but I feel that it hurts your case when you can't seem to have a civil discussion involving various beliefs and views.

I know you already know this, but (obviously) not everybody is always going to agree with you. If everybody held the same opinion or belief as you did on every subject that is discussed, this would be a pretty sad shell of a "discussion" board.

All you're doing by saying that anybody who disagrees with you is just trying to "discredit" you is doing the exact same thing that you claim they are doing. You're trying to discount THEIR opinion and essentially discredit any points that they have tried to make in contrast to yours in what basically boils down to an attempt to discredit them so that your post stands out as the only possible truth.

What exactly does anybody stand to gain from discrediting you, on that note? This is a message board that caters to a very specific niche. If I were to somehow prove you wrong about something, it really wouldn't affect anything whatsoever in my life or in the world as a whole.

At the end of the day, we're on a Walt Disney World discussion board talking about a theme park. It's far beyond time for everybody to just lighten up a bit.

I honestly hope you don't take this as a "personal attack", because it really isn't.

 

[misterID]

See Joe Camel. Same logic.

Um, have you seen Avengers Assembled or the new Hulk Family show on Disney XD? Complete garbage pandering to the tiniest of little ones. Both are horrible, horrible shows.

If they aren't pimping these characters out to kids, I don't know what would be.

I meant they aren't pimping out mature characters like Kick to kids.