Dare I ask if part of that fee is going towards paying all those sales people in the various DVC kiosks found in all the Parks and Resorts??
Not being sarcastic or nasty, just curious.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
- Status
Dare I ask if part of that fee is going towards paying all those sales people in the various DVC kiosks found in all the Parks and Resorts??
Not being sarcastic or nasty, just curious.
asianway
Well-Known Member
None of it should be. The costs should be for things like Front Desk, Management team wages at the Contemporary that are shared, the Member Services, Member Accounting teams, stuff like that.
1023
Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
Well, "Class Action" lawsuits are all the rage right now. You could spearhead one with me and a few others here and we could make out like bandits. Dues are not to be used as a profit bearing revenue stream and are governed by state real estate laws. So as some of the experts here are stating that dues are making a profit for the company, it stands to reason that we can use their "insider" information to make some cash. Here is an attorney that seems to be all about this http://www.paulplatte.com/timeshare-attorney/orlando/ .
While the above paragraph is in jest, there is some desire to pursue some transparency. Disney's official dues use statement is vague. Attorneys don't like vague. Their official FAQ on the matter is vague. I have posted it in italics below for your perusal.
What do my Annual Dues cover?
Your Annual Dues are applied to a variety of vital interests, including:
Operating Expenses
Housekeeping, transportation (if applicable), Front Desk services, maintenance, utilities and more
Administrative Expenses
Management and reservation services, insurance, some Member mailings and more
Refurbishment Expenses
Updating and maintaining interiors, exteriors, common areas and more
Real Estate Taxes
Property taxes due to governmental agencies where your Home Resort is located
In short, your Annual Dues keep Disney Vacation Club running smoothly and the Disney Vacation Club Resorts looking great.
You can see where your Annual Dues payment goes by viewing your Annual Dues Statement.
If my math is correct, Disney is receiving near $16M this year alone in dues for BLT. Is that money all going into the areas that are stated in the FAQ?
So getting back to my joke about a "Class Action" lawsuit, I need to hire several "experts" in this thread as expert witnesses. They can clearly explain the various types of financial fraud perpetrated by the DVD "et alia" and land initial complainants a load of cash. Anyone want to sign up for that? The burden of proof looks to be overwhelmingly in our favor.
Again, the above paragraph is in jest. I will, however, be at the annual members meeting this year and will pursue questions about the specifics of dues and fees. I will also be reviewing my previous purchase contracts and sharing my concerns with my real estate attorney here in AZ. I am curious what management fees are charged as a specific percentage. I would also like an extensive explanation of "capital reserves" as it looks like a holding account for upgrades.
*1023*
Soarin' Over Pgh
Well-Known Member
Woooooooooooo-eeeee folks, brace for impact. 1023 is pullin' out the lawyer speak.
I'm kinda curious too but I'm not a DVC member and will never be (my paycheck and wallet both just laughed so hard they passed out in my purse at the thought of it)
I'm kinda curious too but I'm not a DVC member and will never be (my paycheck and wallet both just laughed so hard they passed out in my purse at the thought of it)
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Lee
Adventurer
Sure. They just don't get the same attention.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Whether you believe that DVC or the people who bought into it are stupid is irrelevant to this discussion. You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't care to spend any time debating that opinion with you. You are changing the perspective to the economics for the guest who buys into DVC vs the original perspective of Disney's economic incentive as a company. Your original point (which you repeated again above) was that Disney doesn't need to add to the parks since DVC members are locked in to a 40 to 50 year contract. From Disney's perspective this portion of guests is not significant enough to be able to just ignore the other guests. There is no way they simply say we have 5 to 10% of our guests locked in so who cares about the other 90-95% coming back. It makes no sense from a business prospective. No matter how dumb you think the DVC owners are this is a fact that isn't going to change unless they build a whole lot of additional DVC rooms and that number gets into the 60%+ range. We have a long way to go to get close to that.
Anyway, here's some additional facts (anti-numbers people look away)
Here is the breakdown of fees for BLT:
Admin/Front Desk 0.4681
Annual Audit 0.0025
DVC Resevation 0.0059
Fees to Division 0.005
Housekeeping 0.8502
Income Taxes 0.0137
Insurance 0.0847
Legal 0.0002
Maintenance 0.4538
Mgmt Fee 0.3361
Member Activities 0.1547
Security 0.0347
Transportation 0.2859
Utilities 0.2504
OPERATING EXPENSE 2.9459
Int Income (0.0016)
Late Fees (0.0172)
Breakage Income (0.0878)
MEMBER OPERATING ASSESSMENT 2.8393
Capital Reserves 0.5836
Ad Valorem Taxes 1.0743
TOTAL DUES 4.4972
Assuming a 20 point per night average the management fee that you say is "pure profit" equates to $6.72 per night. The entire management fee works out to less than $2M in a year. Not exactly a windfall or a reason to stop caring about the parks. Close to 40% of the dues go to 2 items, the capital reserve which is basically an escrow account that can only be used for future major improvements to the resort and taxes which Disney has to pass on. They don't make any profit on those items. The majority of operating expense items are costs to operate the resort. In a resort like BLT some of the expenses are shared expenses with the existing property. They pay a portion of the transportation expense for the Contemporary resort. Why shouldn't they. The people staying there are using the monorail, boats and buses. Some of the costs are variable and some are more fixed. CR benefits from sharing some of the fixed costs with BLT since their operating costs go down, but it is again not a profit windfall and not the economic incentive to build DVC units.
1023
Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
Smart wallet. You should place a small wager on your Pirates to get to the "Series" this year. Those winnings could fund your down payment on some points. Then you can share my misery of "having" to go to Disney Parks for vacations over the next 48 years. Of course, I'll be dead by the end so my family will have to soak up the last drop of my often mocked expenditure.
While am continually ridiculed by those who consider DVC a waste of money, it is my money to waste. I will only consider it a waste if TWDC through it's P&R division continue to let the parks languish. If I sense the continued decline over the next 10 years, I'll relinquish my "ownership" to someone with a sturdier constitution. ( It is my hope that with Igor [misspelling intentional] leaving at the end of 2015, the parks could recover in 8 years.)
As an aside, many thanks to GoofGoof for the specific breakdown of fees. You saved me from going through all my paperwork. Your quoted post below:
*1023*
P.S. One could say that the "pure profit" aspect of fees could be in the Ad Valorem tax ( Read: Value Added Tax) for the location priviledge, etc...
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
flynnibus
Premium Member
All things that Disney would normally have to pay on their own.. but instead Disney gets the guests to pay for it out of their own pocket, and pay for the privilege to do it!
Oh, and who is Disney paying to do all that work you are paying for? If Disney hires 'themselves' to do the work, there is profit margin on all those dollars spent too. That's the kind of 'hidden' money made in such ventures.
Disney built a property... then gets to charge a crazy premium that pays for the property many times over.. so they get all this money up front. But what about the long run? Oh, Disney gets the customer to pay for the operating costs of the place... and Disney gets the opportunity to make money on selling the 'owners' those services. Oh, and on top of that, all those 'owners' then go and spend all their discretionary dollars at your other businesses too. Then, as icing on the cake, the customers have a huge incentive that acts like a ball and chain to ensure they keep coming back for decades.
Selling timeshares in this regard is an accounting wonderland for Disney.. a captive audience that pays YOUR bills AND gives you all their other money too!
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
What are they doing with that money in the capital reserve? Perhaps they are earning interest on that money and they will use that money to improve property that they own. The members are paying the tax on property that is owned by Disney. If it weren't for the DVC members, TWDC would be on the hook for the taxes. In both instances TWDC is profiting from these arrangements.
Spirited greetings. Hope y'all (or most) had pleasant end of summer weekends.
Apparently, I missed another 18 or so pages (and likely won't catch up as the real world has been very persistent and annoying of late and I just don't have the time right now).
No, I am not taking a sabbatical. Just don't have as much time and as @Lee stated, I do have something I want to share with the community when I am given the OK. It will get its own thread so as to not be buried by this giant chatfest. Just an advance warning, the talk has nothing to do with new E-Tickets or even C-Tickets.
But a few notes.
WDW had a slow weekend beyond a packed MK. Sunday was the high water mark, again, likely owing to the locals drive in crowd that in the past would have spent 2-4 nights and now only stayed for a night. That is the part of the made-up 'economic recovery' that folks don't always see.
Attendance at deluxe resorts was abysmal with one barely hitting the 35% mark.
It should be noted that this is all during the FREE DINING period. It should also be noted that even that tired promo isn't pulling in the bodies that it once did. So much so that last week WDW quietly lifted the blackout on cast dining discounts that had been scheduled to last until October 26th. That tells you the promos are not working.
I happened in to a local casino last week and. Couldn't help but notice the shiny new Spidey slot machine up front. Funny how a company that lobbies hard to keep gaming down in Florida. A company that buys up politicians so the gaming interests don't get in the Sunshine State ... A company that does not have casinos in its cruise ships because gaming isn't family friendly has decided POST Marvel buyout to license characters for casino use.
Also hearing some Anaheim pals tell me that show quality issues have risen 'greatly' since Michael Colglazier has taken over.
Oh, and for all the doom and gloom you hear about DLP, the resort is getting new entertainment for the next Christmas season, including a new Holiday Dreams show. Maybe I'll have to go see it?
Finally, I am up to date with Breaking Bad, so feel free to chat away.
Apparently, I missed another 18 or so pages (and likely won't catch up as the real world has been very persistent and annoying of late and I just don't have the time right now).
No, I am not taking a sabbatical. Just don't have as much time and as @Lee stated, I do have something I want to share with the community when I am given the OK. It will get its own thread so as to not be buried by this giant chatfest. Just an advance warning, the talk has nothing to do with new E-Tickets or even C-Tickets.
But a few notes.
WDW had a slow weekend beyond a packed MK. Sunday was the high water mark, again, likely owing to the locals drive in crowd that in the past would have spent 2-4 nights and now only stayed for a night. That is the part of the made-up 'economic recovery' that folks don't always see.
Attendance at deluxe resorts was abysmal with one barely hitting the 35% mark.
It should be noted that this is all during the FREE DINING period. It should also be noted that even that tired promo isn't pulling in the bodies that it once did. So much so that last week WDW quietly lifted the blackout on cast dining discounts that had been scheduled to last until October 26th. That tells you the promos are not working.
I happened in to a local casino last week and. Couldn't help but notice the shiny new Spidey slot machine up front. Funny how a company that lobbies hard to keep gaming down in Florida. A company that buys up politicians so the gaming interests don't get in the Sunshine State ... A company that does not have casinos in its cruise ships because gaming isn't family friendly has decided POST Marvel buyout to license characters for casino use.
Also hearing some Anaheim pals tell me that show quality issues have risen 'greatly' since Michael Colglazier has taken over.
Oh, and for all the doom and gloom you hear about DLP, the resort is getting new entertainment for the next Christmas season, including a new Holiday Dreams show. Maybe I'll have to go see it?
Finally, I am up to date with Breaking Bad, so feel free to chat away.
WDWDad13
Well-Known Member
WDWDad13
Well-Known Member
that is incorrect... the FREE DINING period began on Sept. 2nd (yesterday) - good try though to make your point
NX2I85
Active Member
You mean California?
HMF
Well-Known Member
People in California seem to be less gullible than some places.
- Status