Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[Castle Cake Apologist]

You must be a fanboy, apologist, low level TDO drone, pixie dust snorter, and a few others I'm sure I'm forgetting.

You forgot "lifestyler." At least I'm not a dreaded mommy blogger, I guess.

Low-level TDO drone seems to be a pretty accurate summation of what I am.

 

[flynnibus]

A negative one. The majority of DLR's guests don't even plan trips. Imagine finding out we (I know you're a DLR local) have to plan FPs and which rides we want to get on... It's laughable. I can kind of see people wearing those bands to purchase things, but this FP deal is a joke. Restricting the number of FPs we can get would so many people off.

But this is also the same audience that spits on FP because the 'first come first serve' model doesn't fit their 'I show up after work' visiting strategy. Being able to do advanced FP in a short time window would actually FAVOR the style many locals visit.. because they aren't willing or able to show up early to get those FPs.

The current FP system puts the 'late shows' at a disadvantage and they in turn spew hate about FP constantly. It's not FP limits or advanced FP that would hurt that demographic.. it's the idea of 60days or similar. If it were something like 24 or 48hrs.. I bet DLR locals would soak it up.

 

[flynnibus]

Exactly. I remember when FPs return times started being enforced, people were so angry because their FP plans were now "ruined." This would be ten times worse.

Actually.. what you heard was everyone complaining how this proposed change would ruin everything...
and when it actually went into effect... you heard basically NOTHING. Because the complaints were all hot air and hyperbole. In reality, people adjusted quite easily and they were no worse for wear.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Clearly, the government would have no interest in your in-park activities.

However, it is not inconceivable that the technology being used and the manner in which it is implemented may be of interest to any number of outside organizations, including the government(s).

I'll leave the dot-connecting to '74, but there are clearly some very interesting...relationships...going on behind the scenes.

I'll give you that. I just seriously doubt that the government is using WDW P&R to test out some type of new sinister people-tracking technology.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Wait... now Next Gen is a government conspiracy? Seriously? What exactly does the government stand to gain from the knowledge that I hang out in the UK pavilion at Epcot a lot?

I can't even...

Or you are missing what people are saying... The government doesn't care what you do in Epcot... Maybe they want to work with Disney in regards to TRACKING the population... Disney WILL be tacking guests... The government wants to track the population even more so that it does now... Who cares if you spent 4 hours in World Showcase? Not the NSA/CIA/FBI... However, maybe they want to know that you spent 4 hours at a gun show, or met with a militant group... While they have ways to do that now, can you imagine how much easier it would be if the population had to wear these bands as, say, their drivers license or state ID?

 

[wm49rs]

I'll give you that. I just seriously doubt that the government is using WDW P&R to test out some type of new sinister people-tracking technology.

Tracking? No, perhaps not. But like any other information-gleaning entity, the government may be interested in what information Disney can obtain and/or provide.

 

[flynnibus]

I have a question for anyone, whats with this "needed infrastructure update" that people throw around apologetically? Seems like the pretty basic, physical infrastructure of WDW can rot and collapse without so much as a nod from Disney, so surely the "much needed" IT upgrade trumps that? What is this general tech WDW needs and is so desperately lacking?

Remember just a few years ago when people used to whine 'why on earth doesn't disney offer free wifi in its hotels? or elsewhere?'

Remember how everyone complained about how aweful Disney's websites were and why there is a whole slew of 3rd party sites reporting the same info better?

Do you have any insight into the backends at all in what feeds the call-centers or customer service?

Much of what is referred to here is invisible to guests.. but constrains what a company can offer it's guests.

If the results are successes or not are independent of the idea that the old stuff was a potential barrier or drain on resources.

 

[Californian Elitist]

But this is also the same audience that spits on FP because the 'first come first serve' model doesn't fit their 'I show up after work' visiting strategy. Being able to do advanced FP in a short time window would actually FAVOR the style many locals visit.. because they aren't willing or able to show up early to get those FPs.

The current FP system puts the 'late shows' at a disadvantage and they in turn spew hate about FP constantly. It's not FP limits or advanced FP that would hurt that demographic.. it's the idea of 60days or similar. If it were something like 24 or 48hrs.. I bet DLR locals would soak it up.

I see your point, but the thing is FPs are still available in the evenings and even at nighttime. It's not like they're all gone by 3 pm.

Definitely forgot about the 60 days in advance thing. What local is going to do that? No one.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Actually.. what you heard was everyone complaining how this proposed change would ruin everything...
and when it actually went into effect... you heard basically NOTHING. Because the complaints were all hot air and hyperbole. In reality, people adjusted quite easily and they were no worse for wear.

I heard that, AS WELL as people crying about their famous "FP plan of attack." Sure, there were some who were just flat out angry just because times were being enforced, but others had serious strategies and well thought out plans on how to obtain FPs for specific rides in order to be back at specific times for other things. Those people are still bitter.

 

[flynnibus]

I see your point, but the thing is FPs are still available in the evenings and even at nighttime. It's not like they're all gone by 3 pm.

But they all about how standby is longer because of all those late FP returners

If you actually look at the root of why locals hate FP... these changes actually favor the locals for the large part. The problem is the locals about FP... only when it's them getting the short end of the stick. When it comes to gaming it for their advantage... talk about removing it and then FP touching FP is sacrilege.

 

[GoofGoof]

In fact, it often seems quite the opposite. Over the last few years, Disney seems intent on imposing the largest price increases on its most loyal customers. Consider what they've done in recent years to Annual Pass holders:

• Annual Pass prices up 17.3% in 2 years.
• Children under the age of 10 now are charged the full adult AP price.
• AP merchandise discount cut in half.
• TIW price up 33% along with more blackout days and excluded restaurants.

It's a bizarre business model, one that I believe would fail miserably in other service industries, such as airlines or hotels, that offer free upgrades, free tickets, etc.

It seems Disney wants to squeeze out every penny from those infected with pixie dust.

I feel the need to once again quote Kevin Bacon in Animal House:

"Thank you sir may I have another."

(Sorry no video; it's inappropriate for a family friendly site.)

From what I've been told from insiders, one major goal of NextGen is to identify more opportunities to squeeze out more pennies.

Rhetorically, why isn't the place that once was cited as the gold standard for customer service willing to implement something so basic as a loyalty program?

Here's how I see the pricing advantages Disney will have with this project. Disney's current pricing strategy is similar to a department store jewelry counter. There is an artificially inflated listed price but they always have sales. Occasionally some people actually pay full price but most pay a sale price (for Macy's its a percent off sale on jewelry with WDW its hotel discounts, multiday passes, free dining). In this example you always wait to get the Macy's add in the mail around Christmas time to buy your wife some jewelry at 70% off. As soon as you get the flyer you go to Macy's to shop. I run into you there. I don't even read my adds I get in the mail but I need a last minute gift for my wife so I went to Macy's too. We both buy the same earrings for 70% off the list price. Now Macy's is thinking "I wish we had a system where we could offer @ParentsOf4 a 70% discount since that's the only reason he comes here but not have to offer it to @GoofGoof since he would have paid full price". In comes the datamining associate with MyMagic. Disney will actually have the ability to offer discounts only to those who they feel will only buy with the discount.

I think we agree on this point. The question is do you consider this a loyalty program? In the traditional sense it's not. A loyalty program rewards frequent purchasers/visitors no matter what they would be willing to spend. The example above only rewards you if the data says you need that extra push to buy. A pixie dust addict won't get as many rewards as a less addicted guest in theory since they would be buying anyway. Where the loyalty does come in to some extent is they will be able to identify the guests who not just come back every year, but those that spend the most while on property.

Here's another way to look at it. As you pointed out the AP holders and regulars are all being squeezed. They are all lumped in as one big group for discounting. Now if you identify an AP holder who doesn't buy much in terms of merchandise and doesn't eat a lot of meals in the parks as a less desirable customer you can offer them next to nothing. If you loose them no big deal. However, some AP holders are dust addicts. They still spend a ton on merchandise and eat at character meals and restaurants all of the time. These guests will be flagged as important and still get some offers to keep them loyal. While its not at all a loyalty program for the first set of guests it is for the second set. The loyalty will now be judged in terms of maximum cash spent not frequency of return visits.

 

[Nubs70]

Reality check time: Disney is not spending money on NGE as a WDW project only. It is using WDW as a launching point and perhaps the place where the problems will be more likely to surface quickly, but, and I feel you can take this to the bank, this is meant for all of Disney parks and even parks other then Disney. They have all the incentive in the world to continue until it works, there is a lot of money to be made with this system and it is NOT from just Disney Guests.

I cede your point on WDW only. Disney P&R is developing NGE as a strategic asset that will give Disney a strategic advantage over competitors. Since NGE is a strategic asset designed for use in all Disney parks, then all Disney parks are exposed to the strategic liability of NGE. As for application to parks outside Disney, why would Disney want to cede strategic advantage to their competition?

 

[doctornick]

I heard that, AS WELL as people crying about their famous "FP plan of attack." Sure, there were some who were just flat out angry just because times were being enforced, but others had serious strategies and well thought out plans on how to obtain FPs for specific rides in order to be back at specific times for other things. Those people are still bitter.

Sure, and they will adjust, just like people adjusted once FP came out in the first place. I think it's a valid point that if people could make FP+ reservations at DLR there would be a lot of complaining when it was introduced -- but might eventually be embraced (as FP has been) once people learn how to "game the system" to maximize the benefits.

 

[ford91exploder]

The component of NextGen that would work for something like this, the MagicBand, would not work as an ID unless said ID became larger and included a battery that kept its charge for a longer period of time.

Why oh why do people keep believing the meme that RFID can only be read at short range, The battery powered RFID transponders all they do is allow the RFID sensor to be smaller,

The passive RFID like what is used for Florida's SunPass systems can be reliably read at 100' with 15 year old tech. Same system is used at many subscription based parking garages that 'sticker' actually contains an RFID chip and antenna

 

[ford91exploder]

That would be an excellent start.

Agree wholeheartedly

 

[ford91exploder]

I'll give you that. I just seriously doubt that the government is using WDW P&R to test out some type of new sinister people-tracking technology.

Why not where else would a government find a random population of 18 million unsuspecting test subjects,

Remember this does not have to be US Government, China would actually be more likely as they have 1 a Paper National ID system, 2 Internal passport to prevent country dwellers from migrating to the coastal cites. System would prevent ID forgery AND detect 'Unauthorized Travel'

 

[marni1971]

Reservation systems, hotel management systems, reporting systems, POS systems, training systems, guest facing systems, etc.

If you call Disney to make a reservation, there's a fair chance that the person on the other side is looking at a black screen with green text, MS-DOS style. No, I'm not exaggerating.

If you saw the systems that ran EPCOT well into the 000s...

Indeed, UNM still had DACS run any 1971 show elements and a local show controller running the later additions.

 

[Nubs70]

The passive RFID like what is used for Florida's SunPass systems can be reliably read at 100' with 15 year old tech. Same system is used at many subscription based parking garages that 'sticker' actually contains an RFID chip and antenna

At 65 mph.

 

[marni1971]

Actually.. what you heard was everyone complaining how this proposed change would ruin everything...
and when it actually went into effect... you heard basically NOTHING. Because the complaints were all hot air and hyperbole. In reality, people adjusted quite easily and they were no worse for wear.

FP+ is a totally different beast. We're talking weeks and months, not minutes.

I want to choose to ride Splash Mountain an hour or so before actually doing so. With minimal queuing. Not weeks or months in advance.

That's why FP+ is a failure to my family.

 

[AEfx]

UNI answer:
Wow, at last I enjoyed UNI. Simpsons and Potter finally turned their parks into a fun full day experience for our kids.

Disney answer:
Wow, we totally enjoyed Pirates and ToT and walking WS promenade again. And this new tech really elevates the experience above the competition. Something about Disney is just magic.

For UNI, in 2008/9 the right strategy to pursue was to invest heavily in brick and mortar, to rejuvenate their underperforming parks. For WDW at this time, the right strategy to pursue was to invest heavily in new technology to better exploit the existing, thriving parks, which held up amazingly well even in the crash.

LOL.

I see what you did there.

And yeah, I guess we just are gonna disagree on this because it feels like we are on different planets, because no child is going to ever think that adding the "new tech" so Daddy can pay for food with his bracelet, and you can book fastpasses months ahead that you don't even know if you are going to need on the day in question, is going to "elevate" them above the competition.

You know what will elevate them at Universal that's happening at the same time? The brand new magic train that will connect the parks and be an attraction in it's own right. Literally. We have a creaky old Monorail system between two parks that hasn't been expanded in 30 years. Or we can ride a bus. Universal is putting in a method of transport between parks and is making it a real attraction. It's brilliant.


Contrary to what some assume based on some of my most recent posts - I am not a Universal fan. I have no brand loyalty to them, I don't root for them, I don't even WANT them to be good. But they don't give a choice because they are making the attractions that Disney used to - impressive, using and combining new technology, attractions that even "non theme park fans" who don't go to websites hear about and want to go see.

No one is going to come to WDW just to try out a new bracelet.

It's funny, because people who know me "in real life" would certainly think of me as a Disney "Lifestyler". I've got Disney (particularly park stuff) all over my house. Disney Infinity has been out a week and I have every single figure, power disc, and accessory. I live well over a thousand miles away from WDW but I usually hold an AP (though not the last couple of years for various reasons, but I will be again by the end of this year).

But the truth is, it's ALL about the parks for me. I have loved Disney Infinity - because of all the nods to the theme parks (the entire Pirates adventure with Jack on the included playset feels like you are playing a game walking around the ride), and the fact that you can build your own theme parks to play in. Even the music feels like the parks. My love of the Disney characters comes from the parks - they are what I have a passion for, I wouldn't really care about Disney without them.

So when Disney hasn't built an attraction yet this century (and has none announced) that even comes close to touching what Universal did in 1999 with Spiderman. And they keep topping themselves. Sure, was there a stagnant period there? Yup, but looking back what did we get in that time? Everest? Great...if you believe the numbers out there, Everest cost as much as Forbidden Journey. For an OK coaster with almost nothing in terms of effects, and even with a fully working Yeti wouldn't touch the awesomeness that is that FJ is (oh, and spoiler - I am not a Harry Potter fan! I've seen the first 5 or 6 films, still haven't seen the last ones, never read a book).

I don't care about Universal or Harry Potter as a brand, but I go there because it's an amazing fricking ride. And if they had just stopped there, I wouldn't be nearly as impressed as I am now. But they just keep on doing it - Transformers, and Harry Potter 2 are coming. They did as much placemaking with New Springfield as we got with New Fantasyland. They show no signs of slowing down. They build an entire ride from the ground up in less than a year - when we are watching that little hill in Fantasyland take half a decade to go from start to open.

It's funny, being here for almost ten years on WDWMagic, you certainly can see the tide has changed. People used to say "Oh, they have Spiderman, great ride - but Universal isn't competition, it's a one off, Disney will have Everest soon, and that Yeti is gonna make people forget all about Spiderman!" And then starting a few years ago, the ante got upped - and upped again. And Disney has yet to respond in any way. We are sitting here talking about bracelets that pay for food easier, and booking FP online months before - dining is one thing, at least you know you need them, but booking a fp for a specific hour months away when the standby might be non-existent when you actually get there - that is not exciting. That is not a revolutionary anything.

I don't know how anyone cannot see that when it comes to attractions, Disney has seemingly given up. Even the biggest things on the horizon - Star Wars and Avatar - are all likely at least a half decade away, and even the most generous rumors don't suggest they will be game-changers in terms of the attractions themselves.

I HOPE they are wrong. I HOPE Disney comes out fighting and tries to make exciting, immersive attractions again. Evidence isn't showing that it's happening any time soon, and as quick as Universal is working who the heck knows what's coming next. But I hope every day they prove me wrong, and if they do - I am the first one who will line up for some crow to eat.

If NextGen is nothing more than what you wrote under "DISNEY ANSWER" then I'm with you 100%. However, NextGen is much more than bands and Fastpass+, or at least it's supposed to be. Go back a few pages and read the conversation on Disney Infinity and iTunes. I'd quote them here but multi quoting is a challenge on my mobile device.

I have Disney Infinity - if you swipe your bracelet over, once (you can use anyone's) and it unlocks a sky object and a little mission. About ten minutes of content if you take your time.

I'm aware of the little ancillary things like that - like the vague promise that characters or attractions might be able to say your name (which Universal has been doing since 1990, LOL). But - we haven't heard much about that since the entire thing was just being talked about. I've followed this entire thing as closely as anyone can without being "inside".

I do get it - but none of it is any more impressive than the Fastpass+ or a wait times App. There is nothing that this is going to do that will make someone say, "I have to go to WDW now!" It's all the same kinds of minor, momentary stuff - and let's not forget, most of it won't be accessible unless you are staying at a Disney Resort.

What brings people to parks is BIG, IMPRESSIVE attractions - which Disney hasn't built since the 1990's. And, it doesn't appear they will be coming anytime this decade, while we sit and wait for that little hill that is taking five years to build.