Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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SirLink

Well-Known Member
Yes. But. Now your game device is linked to a unique identifier. Will that be able to see what other games you play and hense, targeted advertising to you?

Sony + MS have had targeted advertising along with standard advertising based on what you consume on the platform.

I will say that MS have got better by needing to collect two bits of data to target the advertising i.e. You consumed Fable 2 and "random party game". And offers Fable Heroes.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
So if a high dollar expenditure occurs within the same business unit, fail or succeed, that expenditure needs to be recouped?

You can try try and try again to try to lead me into the trap you want.. but it isn't going to work. Make your claim or move on. You might as well be trying to lead people to think that The John Carter flop is what directly caused P&R to reduce EMH hours.

Go.com didn't shape P&R's behavior - Eisner and friends were not even shaken by these flops... and is in part why people were calling for their heads. The missteps continued time and time again with no consequence or attempts to stop the stupidity.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Disney comes out and says they are going to do 1.3 BIL in tech upgrades including...
free wifi resort-wide,
tap to pay resort-wide,
tap to enter your room and any doors resort-wide,
fastpasses on your key to the world,
personalized attractions to come (like test track),
and a fancy new app that has maps and wait times and the ability to store all the data you need on your vacation.
.
If this was indeed the only agenda of NextGen than I would be OK with it. However, Disney has given me nearly a decades worth of reasons to not trust them with the tech. As for the "everybody does it" mentality, when did the world become a place where because everybody is doing it, automatically make it right. It really saddens me that we live in an age where we don't believe institutions should have any sense of morality or be held accountable for unethical behavior and can feel free to exploit people at will.
 

Mike730

Well-Known Member
It really saddens me that we live in an age where we don't believe institutions should have any sense of morality or be held accountable for unethical behavior and can feel free to exploit people at will.

I agree wholeheartedly, but with corporations theres just no chance of fairness. Thats why I'm not worried, because if you know how to hold your own than you'll be fine. Its the people that drift through life ignoring reality that get taken advantage of.

Go ahead and target me for advertisements. If I don't want to purchase anything, I'm not going to. Irregardless;) of any coupons or crazy deals that are "just for me!"
 

djlaosc

Well-Known Member
In terms of Nextgen as a whole...

Forget wristbands. Seriously. They're like the gimmick that makes this a "theme park addition" instead of just technological upgrades.

Disney comes out and says they are going to do 1.3 BIL in tech upgrades including...
free wifi resort-wide,
tap to pay resort-wide,
tap to enter your room and any doors resort-wide,
fastpasses on your key to the world,
personalized attractions to come (like test track),
and a fancy new app that has maps and wait times and the ability to store all the data you need on your vacation.

Would you really be complaining? Really?

Five years down the line would you really not want all these upgrades?

Thats a lot of money, but stop worrying for god sakes.

The fastpass+ looks to be a mistake, but the technological upgrades are certainly necessary.

Free Wifi - should be available anyway
Tap To Pay - don't use
Tap to Enter Room - because swiping was so difficult...
Fastpass on KttW - the current system works fine
Personalised attractions - Test Track has now been open 9-10 months, is it working 100% yet?
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
I agree wholeheartedly, but with corporations theres just no chance of fairness.
There would be if they got rid of all the ridiculous layers of bureaucracy and competing agendas that leave the company in a constant state of inconsistency.
 

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
I'm not disagreeing with any of this, but none of it is remotely relevant to the original point. I missed the post were anyone tried to claim that you owned anything once the contract expires. The original poster made the statement that since your interest expires you were exempt from timeshare law. That is not true. Simple misstatement. Nobody tried to claim that DVC was anything different than what it is.
But you made this statement:
Not true. You still own deeded property, but the deed just expires. It falls under timeshare laws.
You do not own "deeded property". The "deeds" are issued because most people associate the word "deed" with property. They think that because they have a deed they must own property. Disney wants to provide you with the illusion that you own property in the traditional sense of fee simple title.

The DVC deed only gives you ownership of a time block for a finite period. The DVC is a "leasehold condominium" and is sold with covenants which make it clear that Disney owns the property. In addition, you can't sell your DVC membership without giving Disney right of first refusal. A traditional timeshare deed provides you with property ownership in fee simple for an indefinite period. There's a big difference between the two.

In short, what we're talking about is a lease versus ownership sale. The pros and cons of these is really an entirely different issue. The DVC is a lease of property that is owned by Disney. Under the DVC you do not own "deeded property". Disney owns the property.
 

njDizFan

Well-Known Member
I haven't read through to see if this was answered, but if it has, it still bears repeating.

Sorry, but your math is way off here. If he spent 2k on 31 points for the next 40 years, that's 1240 points that he will get to use for the life of the deed. That is $1.24 per point used. With the current dues at $5.84 per point, his total per point cost is $7.08. If he goes during "Magic Season", he can get a studio for 2 nights at 14 points per night for a standard view. That comes out to $99 per night, and he won't pay any of the resort taxes and fees that are added.

Checking the Disney website, a Standard View Studio next May will cost $477 rack rate per night. Even with, say, a 40% discount, the nightly cost is still $286 plus the taxes and such added on. So he just saved over $200 PER NIGHT over the 40% discount rate and over $400 over the rack rate! Please, tell me where else he can get into a deluxe resort for $99 per night on Disney property?

So with staying only 10 days, he will have already saved his initial investment of 2k. His nightly cost after that will be only the cost of dues. So he will get into that studio for only $82 per night. Pretty much the cost of a discounted value resort, but he gets to stay at the Boardwalk. Not too shabby, I think!

Sorry for the OT post. Back to the regular posting.

I really didnt want this subject to come up again but I feel compelled to respond.

The OP stated he paid $2000 at $64 a point, which is about 31-32 points. Going by the DVC webpage I noted that will get you at 2 night stay during the week at a studio. He also stated that his annual fees/dues are $170 a year which divided by 2 equals $85/night. I think we can agree on that...maybe no? Then adding in the initial expense of $2000 over 40 years would equal $50 a year(which my calculator just agreed was correct). So we then have a combined cost of $135 per night.

Is that a good deal for a Disney deluxe resort(by not even researching the insane price list of the website) I would say yes. BUT is that a good price for the reletive accomodations you are receiving. I say no, I could get a bettter deal off site for less money and a much better room. Of course you will not have some of the perks(EMH) and stay on property(to some is a very important qualifyer).

If you want to discuss more maybe we can PM
 

Mike730

Well-Known Member
Free Wifi - should be available anyway
Indeed! They're installing it!
Tap To Pay - don't use
Thats a shame. It's really quite convenient.
Tap to Enter Room - because swiping was so difficult...
I'm sorry to hear you had an issue with the swiping. I never had this issue, but the tapping should be easier now.
Fastpass on KttW - the current system works fine
You're right. It works fine. Idk about this reservation nonsense, but wouldn't it be nice to have it on your KttW. No need for paper.
Personalised attractions - Test Track has now been open 9-10 months, is it working 100% yet?
It worked great when I was there.

It seems that you can't point out the good on this board without getting attacked. Theres quite a bit of good coming from this. I'm in the clan that would rather they invest in attractions, but it's not like the money is going no where.

Really my whole point was that there are worse things to complain about. I'm not apologist, and I'm not happy with the investment either, but at least there are advantages.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
If this was indeed the only agenda of NextGen than I would be OK with it. However, Disney has given me nearly a decades worth of reasons to not trust them with the tech. As for the "everybody does it" mentality, when did the world become a place where because everybody is doing it, automatically make it right. It really saddens me that we live in an age where we don't believe institutions should have any sense of morality or be held accountable for unethical behavior and can feel free to exploit people at will.
The problem is that people, like me, don't see any breach of morality in this, nor any need for anyone to be held accountable. It isn't even a matter of "others do it". It is a matter of common business practice since businesses opened including Disney. Different ways of doing it, but still the same end purpose. Business has always tracked what the public and/or their customers did, what they liked, what they were more inclined to buy etc., always...then they had to use a clipboard and paper and pencil...now electronically. And since the entire business we are referring too, including one just being in it, is completely voluntary to a supposed thinking, reasoning and intelligent human being, then I also cannot see how the can exploit anyone that doesn't wish to be exploited. Hold my Grandchildren for ransom until I book a suite at the Grand Floridian and I will become Rambo, until then I like to think that I decide what I am going to do with my money. Even if I get suckered in to buying something that I hadn't intended, I still did it voluntarily, no bamboo under the fingernails or anything.

This theory that one will get duped into something is possible, but the only ones that can be duped are the dupable. It scares me more to think that there are that many people out there that can be so easily lead. Even if one says...well, before they didn't track it with a name attached, like they will be able to now, still doesn't mean that just because you know specifically that Jane Doe bought a Plush Goofy (good choice btw) that this information is of any value to them. It would be in the sense that one other person bought a Goofy Plush. The name and other info is really nothing more then you gave them when you made your reservation or bought your tickets with a Credit Card. And it has no more value to anyone other then an individual that has made a reservation and "body" #1,000,000,001 that is going to be in the confines of our retail/service business space.
 
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John

Well-Known Member
In the interest of the thread I'll keep it short and the discussion can be continued on a sports website. Funny you mention the tobacco industry and there are a lot of parallel's in how they handle the issue. Deny a problem exists, then acknowledge a problem exists but minimize it, put considerable pressure on anyone who attempts to bring the truth to light. When the truth begins to emerge, they try and seem proactive about correcting the problem to prevent further damage.

Agree with you about high school and college, but disagree about the lawsuit being frivolous. Most of the former players suing had the truth hidden from them and were often cleared by team doctors to continue playing when they should not have been. Those team doctors are paid by the teams and the NFL and were pressured to clear players that they normally would not.


I promised I wouldn't......I promised I wouldn't.....ugggggggg

I tried to PM but the poster he/she does not make that option available...which makes it so hard. I will say one thing. There are legalities that address self responsibility in such law suits. Am I lawyer or play one on tv? no...but was married to a paralegal for many years....does that count?


It is very similar to the McDonalds hot coffee case. Did McDonalds know the coffee was hot? Did the driver at the drive thru know the coffee was hot? The driver was awarded by a jury 2.38 million dollars. The judge lowered the amount to $648,000 before it went to appeal the driver settled the case for a lower amount. You know why? Because they knew they could lose on appeal. Why? because there is a law that states if it can be proved that there was ANY amount of responsibility on the driver. Even if that responsibility represents just 1% of fault the claimant gets zero. Like or not that is the law.
 
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wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
It worked great when I was there.

My wife and I have visited several times since TT 2.0 opened and have riden about ten times total. The ride vehicle has never malfunctioned but the whole creating a car and competing against others has NEVER worked properly when we rode. A few times you couldnt even create a car, they just ushered us passed it. I think only twice of the ten times we have riden it even showed our vehicle on the checkpoint screens, but it would show it one screen and not the next. Several times the volume in the car was just turned off or skipped liked a scratched cd. not that it matters cuz the new narration is just silly. I think many who say "it worked fine for us" are just considering that ride didnt break down, they are not noticing the small things that should be working.

And about the free wi fi..., I wonder if the Disney techs have ever heard of bandwidth, cuz they have none
 
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djlaosc

Well-Known Member
Indeed! They're installing it!.

Good - it seems to be the one part of "NextGen" that everyone can agree with - free Wifi was necessary, and something that the other theme parks in Orlando should also look into.

Thats a shame. It's really quite convenient..

I find that cash works perfectly fine.

I'm sorry to hear you had an issue with the swiping. I never had this issue, but the tapping should be easier now.
.

I have never had an issue with swiping - I was saying that swiping was fine - tapping isn't really anything different.

You're right. It works fine. Idk about this reservation nonsense, but wouldn't it be nice to have it on your KttW. No need for paper..

The paper for Fastpass was useful for remembering times. The paper for Fastpass was useful for giving them to others as you were leaving the park. The paper for Fastpass will now be useful for when you don't own a mobile phone and have to have everything written down before you leave, or printed from Guest Relations, or it is too difficult to access the MyDisneyExperience ap because the Wifi is not holding up well enough and there is a long queue at the access points in the parks. It may still be necessary to carry "paper Fastpasses" - just not the same as before - same as even with "touch to pay", it's going to be useful to still carry your wallet for if/when the system goes down.

It worked great when I was there..

I'm glad to hear it - but there are still complaints about it not working for people.

It seems that you can't point out the good on this board without getting attacked. Theres quite a bit of good coming from this. I'm in the clan that would rather they invest in attractions, but it's not like the money is going no where.

Really my whole point was that there are worse things to complain about. I'm not apologist, and I'm not happy with the investment either, but at least there are advantages.

I hope you don't think that I was attacking you - all I'm saying is, for however much this is costing, I'm gaining free Wifi which I probably won't use (have never used the internet in the parks), and losing the ability to get more than one Fastpass for the attractions that I want it to, or use Fastpass in more than one park. So far, NextGen will leave parts of my holiday worse off, and some have changed but do exactly the same things. If this is going to improve your holiday, then I am happy for you, but I (and many others) will likely not be gaining anything positive from this.
 

John

Well-Known Member
Again there would have to be evidence when the NFL knew there was a problem...how they knew. Its a class action suit. There are some players who are not a part of the suit....why? Because if it is proven that there were players that played before the NFL knew it was a problem then the whole suit could be dismissed.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
The problem is that people, like me, don't see any breach of morality in this, nor any need for anyone to be held accountable. It isn't even a matter of "others do it". It is a matter of common business practice since businesses opened including Disney. Different ways of doing it, but still the same end purpose. Business has always tracked what the public and/or their customers did, what they liked, what they were more inclined to buy etc., always...then they had to use a clipboard and paper and pencil...now electronically.
The problem is there has to be a balance between business and ethics, The truth is great artists don't try to meet the expectations of people and what they like , They go above and beyond that. They aim to exceed the expectations of the public not customize it to be "good enough" and if you make an honest artistic statement it usually always finds an audience, Films like Pinnochio and Fantasia were initially disappointing financially but as time went on they became classics. Disneyland was supposed to close within a month according to the "Experts".
The fact of the matter is simply giving the public what they want gets old quick. You have to do what feels right to you and an audience will come to you. When you try to force the audience in as Disney is doing with NGE feels contrived, invasive and insincere. The product should speak for itself not try to force you to like it with gimmicky BS and that is what the MBA-type worldview does not understand.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
But you made this statement:

You do not own "deeded property". The "deeds" are issued because most people associate the word "deed" with property. They think that because they have a deed they must own property. Disney wants to provide you with the illusion that you own property in the traditional sense of fee simple title.

The DVC deed only gives you ownership of a time block for a finite period. The DVC is a "leasehold condominium" and is sold with covenants which make it clear that Disney owns the property. In addition, you can't sell your DVC membership without giving Disney right of first refusal. A traditional timeshare deed provides you with property ownership in fee simple for an indefinite period. There's a big difference between the two.

In short, what we're talking about is a lease versus ownership sale. The pros and cons of these is really an entirely different issue. The DVC is a lease of property that is owned by Disney. Under the DVC you do not own "deeded property". Disney owns the property.

There are 2 common types of timeshare systems. Deeded and right to use contracts.

With a traditional deeded timeshare you are purchasing a fractional ownership of real property (usually in increments of a week). This is a purchase of physical property where a deed is recorded and the owner is responsible to pay real estate taxes and can deduct those taxes on their tax return. There are many kinds of deeds, but one of the most common used for timeshares is a leasehold deed where the buyer has ownership of their share of the unit, but not the physical land. Leasehold deeds can be in perpetuity or they can be for a fixed period of time after which the ownership interest returns to the original seller.

With a right to use contract the purchaser has the right to use the property in accordance with the contract for a finite period of time, but all ownership interests revert back to the original owner at the end of the contract. While these contracts provided a lot of flexibility the downside is that if the company you have a contract with goes out of business you have no claim to any real property and your contract would become worthless. Under these contracts there are not specific units identified and there is no obligation to pay real estate taxes or ability to deduct those taxes on your return.

DVC is a hybrid of the two systems. In practice it operates similar to a right to use contract due to the ability to use points at a number of different resorts and the contracts have a firm end date when ownership interest reverts back to Disney. However, legally DVC is leasehold deed with a fixed end date. The deed itself refers to a percentage of a specific unit owned. You don't own the land, but that's common for a lot of condominiums and retirement communities. You are also required to pay real estate taxes as part of your dues. Other hotel chains are now starting to adopt the DVC legal structure which provides both flexibility and legal protection to owners.

So when you say it's a lease not a purchase that is accurate. But it's still technically deeded property.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I really didnt want this subject to come up again but I feel compelled to respond.

The OP stated he paid $2000 at $64 a point, which is about 31-32 points. Going by the DVC webpage I noted that will get you at 2 night stay during the week at a studio. He also stated that his annual fees/dues are $170 a year which divided by 2 equals $85/night. I think we can agree on that...maybe no? Then adding in the initial expense of $2000 over 40 years would equal $50 a year(which my calculator just agreed was correct). So we then have a combined cost of $135 per night.

Is that a good deal for a Disney deluxe resort(by not even researching the insane price list of the website) I would say yes. BUT is that a good price for the reletive accomodations you are receiving. I say no, I could get a bettter deal off site for less money and a much better room. Of course you will not have some of the perks(EMH) and stay on property(to some is a very important qualifyer).

If you want to discuss more maybe we can PM
It's $50 a year ($2,000/40) but he's staying 2 nights so that adds $25 a night so $110 a night total.
 

Mike730

Well-Known Member
Good - it seems to be the one part of "NextGen" that everyone can agree with - free Wifi was necessary, and something that the other theme parks in Orlando should also look into.



I find that cash works perfectly fine.



I have never had an issue with swiping - I was saying that swiping was fine - tapping isn't really anything different.



The paper for Fastpass was useful for remembering times. The paper for Fastpass was useful for giving them to others as you were leaving the park. The paper for Fastpass will now be useful for when you don't own a mobile phone and have to have everything written down before you leave, or printed from Guest Relations, or it is too difficult to access the MyDisneyExperience ap because the Wifi is not holding up well enough and there is a long queue at the access points in the parks. It may still be necessary to carry "paper Fastpasses" - just not the same as before - same as even with "touch to pay", it's going to be useful to still carry your wallet for if/when the system goes down.



I'm glad to hear it - but there are still complaints about it not working for people.



I hope you don't think that I was attacking you - all I'm saying is, for however much this is costing, I'm gaining free Wifi which I probably won't use (have never used the internet in the parks), and losing the ability to get more than one Fastpass for the attractions that I want it to, or use Fastpass in more than one park. So far, NextGen will leave parts of my holiday worse off, and some have changed but do exactly the same things. If this is going to improve your holiday, then I am happy for you, but I (and many others) will likely not be gaining anything positive from this.

Yep. This blows.
 

Mike730

Well-Known Member
My wife and I have visited several times since TT 2.0 opened and have riden about ten times total. The ride vehicle has never malfunctioned but the whole creating a car and competing against others has NEVER worked properly when we rode. A few times you couldnt even create a car, they just ushered us passed it. I think only twice of the ten times we rode it even showed our vehicle on the checkpoint screens, but it would show it one screen and not the next. Several times the volume in the car was just turned off or skipped liked a scratched cd. not that it matters cuz the new narration is just silly. I think many who say "it worked fine for us" are just considering that ride didnt break down, they are not noticing the small things that should be working.

And about the free wi fi..., I wonder if the Disney techs have ever heard of bandwidth, cuz they have none


I honestly didn't even know there was such an issue but I'm not surprised. It seems to be the fad these days to ignore proper maintenance and upkeep for just about every part of WDW.

And when I when I say it worked fine, I really mean it was perfect. The audio as great and everything worked, so I'm sorry to hear thats not the norm because I thought it was an awesome ride. There were plenty of attractions that were a mess in my book but TT was not one of them.

In regards to the WiFi, it also ran smoothly when I was there. No issues in the parks or in our room. Worked just like our internet at home.
So either I was lucky, or they are improving on it.
The WiFi at Vero Beach however was pitiful.
 
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