Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[Tim_4]

Oh, and SHOW > EFFICIENCY.

You could use that logic to argue that Epcot should be free. You're smarter than that.

 

[sWANNISAX]

The whole Disney Springs thing boggles me. I don't understand who they are going to get for tenants. The rent must be astronomical. As a result prices will also be high in these places. With so many retailers and restuarants just outside the park limits and doing well why venture inside and pay Disney to do what your already doing down the street especially as Universal is starting draw customers away more and more and may be making visitors more mobile

 

[HMF]

I hope the masterminds of NGE get fired. What a total waste of company resources on such a poorly thought through concept.

The optimist in me sees them fired, However my fear is that they will take it out on the frontline Cast Members while those truly at fault will walk away unscathed. After all as a culture we have decided that Business people are above the law, sadly.

 

[nytimez]

You could use that logic to argue that Epcot should be free. You're smarter than that.

And by your logic they should shoot all the animals at AKL.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I wanted to take my brother to see the The Lone Ranger tonight, but sadly it has already ended its run at my local AMC It's sad to see a movie with so much potential for a trilogy bite the dust like this...

According to Box Office Mojo it's still playing in more than 1,200 screens nationwide (at least for today and tomorrow). I'd imagine there's still someplace near you that has it.

 

[Tim_4]

And by your logic they should shoot all the animals at AKL.

No. AKL provides entertainment to paying guests, whether they're park guests, resort guests, or diners. Sure, you could park at AKL and watch the animals for free, but there's nowhere near the freeloader problem that @Funmeister pointed out at the clubs. The entertainers and musicians around World Showcase aren't revenue generators but they're part of the reason people pay to go to Epcot. The clubs might have brought folks into DTD but those folks were leaving their wallets at home.

I never meant for this to get into an argument about the clubs and whether they should have closed. They WERE closed and we can argue about why or whether they should have been all day long. My original point was just that, given that the clubs WERE closed, I'm not too upset that they remained closed during the worst of the recession or that Hyperion Wharf was scrapped in favor of Disney Springs.

 

[Skippy's Pal]

There are several great posts here that should go to the Disney Board of Directors -- for all the good that is likely to do <<sigh>>

 

[Mouse Detective]

There's plenty of fair criticism to lay down in this thread but that ain't it. The economy absolutely TANKED virtually immediately after the clubs closed and Hyperion Wharf was scrapped because it wasn't thinking big enough. I have no beef about how DTD has been handled, given the circumstances.

They should have had signed contracts in hand for the use of the club buildings before they closed any of them. They just thought they could quickly lease them out and make lots of quick money.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The best way for Disney to get wait times under control is to ADD MORE ATTRACTIONS!!!!! Obviously they can't only add headliners (since ideally that would increase crowds), but they need to add more attractions that can fill the time between riding headline attractions. More dark rides in Fantasyland would be a start. And I would say adding a single rider line at Space Mountain would help its capacity.

There is another way to reduce wait times. That is to not do anything (something that they are extremely good at) and eventually the crowds will thin out and go someplace else. And without any additional expense. It's a no brainer!

I told myself I wasn't going to wade into yet another messy discussion of NGE, but couldn't resist the temptation. [Huge Sigh!] That, and I didn't want to cloud this discussion any further away from WDW1974s postings, there's just too much to try and read thru all of this to try and keep on top of. In reality, I think it would be best if this were part of a whole other discussion, but since it's not, I'm curious if anybody knows what the original pitch was for NGE? Why did they buy into it?

The whole situation takes me back to the late 70's, early 80's. People were sent out from financial institutions to explain a new idea to the huddled masses longing to be free of the shackles of financial dependency. This new idea was going to replace the old pension system that relied on the health of the company to be able to pay off. Also, if you left you basically lost your built up pension. No transferability.

This new thing was called, strangely, a 401K. We were all promised that if we were in our 30's and we put in $35.00 per week in this plan, by the time we retired we would all be Millionaires and our life would be set. They had all the numbers set up to prove that point. If it weren't for a couple of things they would have been correct. The biggest one was that during that time-span Money Markets were paying upwards of 20% for deposits and all the number were based on investments in Money Markets. That alone obviously fell apart rather quickly and to make matters worse, had it actually made millionaires out of all of us the affect on inflation, that would be created by that, would have rendered a loaf of bread to a cost of about $500.00. However, it all sounded great and most people bought into it immediately. At least those that had the available cash that wasn't tied up in commodities (aka..groceries for the family). Now that is not to say that this plan didn't have some positive aspects especially when companies started to match funds as a tax free benefit. It just didn't manage to deliver what was promised. I suspect that this will be the fate of NextGen.

I suspect that management at Disney was razzel-dazzeled by someone selling them on an incredible sounding bill of goods. Something that didn't even exist yet except in the mind of someone, but with the ability to convince them that this would all work, electronically as well as psychologically on the easily duped guest. Looked good on paper and with the confidence usually reserved for high school seniors facing the world outside, they bought it. The rest is soon to be history. A very expensive lesson that once again proves that in order to be a high paid executive you do not necessarily have to be smarter then a bucket of rocks. Which, BTW, is an insult to rocks everywhere. And there you have it, Goofyernmost's theory on the birth of NGE.

 

[michmousefan]

It's interesting, there seem to be two camps on NGE.
1) It's a huge spaceship, getting ready to blast off on a grand and glorious journey to the stars
2) It's the equivalent of Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose getting ready to make its first official, and likely last flight

I'm optimistic and hoping for the first, but from everything I've read, I'm thinking it's going to wind up like the second option here, hopefully I'm wrong. However, if it does in fact fly like the Goose, I'm afraid Disney is going to do their best to turn it into the spaceship of the first option and try to get it on its journey, in which case, it will easily cost another billion $.

I'm going to D23 next week, and while still looking forward to it, I can't help but notice the gaping hole in the schedule left by the absence of a Parks and Resorts presentation. To me that speaks volumes about 1) How unready-for-prime-time NGE and MM+ is, 2) The lack of decision-making by the Board for new investment in WDW (sorta understandable, given the potential disaster that NGE is looking like it might be) and 3) the head-in-the-sand attitude that TDO seems to have about Uni. It's like they keep pressing their hands harder and harder over their ears, convinced that the noise about someone who does it better than they do will simply just go away.

And of course it goes without saying that specific discussion of NGE and MM+ -- TDO's brilliant idea -- is nowhere to be seen on the schedule... not even a nerdy panel discussion about how the "magic" will happen. You'd have to think that if they had any confidence in the technology there would be *some* display of it and its supposed power for Expo guests to try out.

Easily half the D23 schedule is composed of artist meet and greets.

Now, there is a large space carved out on the show floor map for the Parks and Resorts pavilion... perhaps they have some surprises up their sleeve that they will spring on us in that space... but I must admit, surprised would be quite the understatement -- more like shocked if that comes to pass. If there is any mention of MM+ at all --it will probably be a few MagicBands on display in a sealed lucite box, tucked away in a corner near the emergency exit.

 

[TinkerBelle8878]

I've read through all 18 pages of this and agree with most of the posts thus far. Instead of staunching the wound (the mess that now is WDW), they're letting it bleed out(NGE full steam ahead), which will effectively kill the 'patient'. I say clamp it now, clean house, and try and salvage what's there. And if they don't clean house, perhaps sanity hearings and mental evaluations for those in power?

That being said, growing up WDW was my favorite place on earth. I was fortunate enough to go many times throughout my childhood in the 80s. I visited many times in the 90s. The 'golden age' of epcot and basically the entire property. My parents used to make the claim that we'd only go back to visit if they built something new. Luckily they did. Alot. But WDW is not what it once was. The prices are astronomical. Its no longer the slightly unaffordable affordable vacation for families. This started with the DDP and the food prices, the resort rates and finally the MYW tickets. Back when they changed from the parkhopper, no expiration, tickets of old, I saw the writing on the wall.

And yet still not much has been built. There's been retheming..that doesn't count. There's been a ton of DVCs..sorry that doesn't count either. A ride that should've been built 20 years ago with the Little Mermaid?

But I still felt the need and want to go back in 2009. I hadn't been there in 7 years and kind of missed it. I was able to take advantage of the 'Buy 4, Get 3 Free' deal at the time and stayed at the All Stars.

That trip, like the OPs changed things for me. But without the jump on the Uni train. This isn't the 'Resort' it once was. The nickel and diming was ramping up. Cabanas for water parks at premium prices. No pool towels or really room towels at the All Stars aside from wash cloth size. And yet if there had been a ton of new rides and attractions to make up for it, then at least I would know that it was a trade off. Higher prices, bigger and better experiences.

Now with this NGE...with all that's been going on in the news, they really want to continue on in this direction? There's stories of department stores and other retailers tracking customers and people being angry. This is only really on a larger scale. Our Keys to the World cards didn't already give them the basic info? If there were charging abilities it should show what was bought.

And on another note, I don't think that has been mentioned yet, how hackable is this system? That would be a bigger PR nightmare than NGE being a failure.

I think they need to get new, younger blood into some kind of leadership/finance position. Who believe in technology but maybe who know it should be applied to new ride experiences, better transportation options/management, and fixing DHS and Future World as opposed to data mining.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

Empty buildings are more profitable than PI's later years were.

Simply not true, some venues yes, but not all of them

Edit- agreed no reason to hash out this debate again, what's done is done.

 

[dreamscometrue]

Universal's parks are fresher, more dynamic, better maintained and have huge new attractions on the way.

"Fresher': They'd better be; so much is new! Comcast is spending a zillion dollars, most of it very recently. Uni was in a different tier forever, and Comcast decided that they are going to invest a fortune to compete. Well done. Competition rocks!

"More dynamic": There's definitely variety, but I don't know if I'd call it more dynamic.

"Better maintained": Not when I was there a few months back (save for the newest attractions).

"Huge new attractions on the way": Fact

There's nothing like stiff competition and loss of market share (revenue) to provide a sense of urgency. No matter what other underlying issues are at play, Disney will not want to lose money to Universal and deal with the media trumpeting Uni's rise from mediocrity. Disney will push back, even if the execs are motivated solely by ego and money. Even if their mentality is just to pour in money and build a bunch of lands/attractions, I'm good with that. In the end, we consumers will be the winners with an improved WDW, and truely world class parks at Uni.

I'm happy for you that you are "clean and sober" '74, but in a few years when you're walking around Cars Land, Pandora, Disney Springs, riding the 7DMT or chillin' in Star Wars Land, you'll relapse like a cheap starlet at a liquor fuelled frat party. It's in your blood. See you on 'The Dark Side' in Star Wars Land. (Btw..."'74, I am your father")

Cheers

 

[dreamscometrue]

There are several great posts here that should go to the Disney Board of Directors -- for all the good that is likely to do <<sigh>>

And there are several people on here (not you) who just like the 'sound' of their own voice.

 

[Goofyernmost]

(Btw..."'74, I am your father")

I'm not going to debate if that statement is true or not, but I know that I surely wouldn't admit to that!

 

[khale1970]

Wyndham Bonnet Creek is an interesting beast. I can get a very nice 2-bedroom villa from WDW for about $1000/night or a good but nothing special (except location) large 2-bedroom villa at Wyndham Bonnet Creek for about $100/night. Or I can stay in WDW's "Motel 6" Art of Animation "suite" for $350/night.

I usually stay at Beach Club or BCV for the ability to walk to Epcot and DHS and for me that makes the price (exorbitant as it is) worth paying. I have a relative who traveled with us last year and stayed at Wyndham Bonnet Creek. We spent a good deal of time there and, as you said, it was nothing special but it was nice and a great value for the suites. It's not as nice or well maintained as any deluxe or vacation club location in Disney, but in the bang for your buck department it was hard to beat.

The ability to walk to Epcot or DHS holds great value to me, but for someone who didn't care about that or didn't value the premium paid for that, I'd recommend they stay at Wyndham Bonnet Creek. Even if you don't have your own transportation,the money you save would pay for parking and a rental car to avoid the bus service and still have lots of extra money left over. For a largish family, three bedrooms and three baths right next door to CBR for around $200/night would be hard to pass up.

 

[Cody5242]

According to Box Office Mojo it's still playing in more than 1,200 screens nationwide (at least for today and tomorrow). I'd imagine there's still someplace near you that has it.

Just got back from seeing it at a Cobbs theatre! My brother liked it a lot!

 

[Ignohippo]

it's not just the 10% more you will spend when at the parks...its the data they can collect and then direct market to you and your family when you get home. also possibly all the information they can give to their "affiliates".

Well, that's all fine and dandy but they aren't going to get a parks increase by 10%, so that figure kind of included that.

So what do you think they'd really get paid for that info? I think a few million would be optimistic. And any info that they could find out on you for their other departments, like film and television, aren't going to pay enormous dividends either. A 10% increase in film would only amount to around $150 million, for example.

Yes, it'll be in the millions (heck, maybe even hundreds of millions), but that doesn't come close to the $2-3 billion spent, or the hundreds of millions it'll cost to keep it going each year.

 

[FigmentJedi]

I wanted to take my brother to see the The Lone Ranger tonight, but sadly it has already ended its run at my local AMC It's sad to see a movie with so much potential for a trilogy bite the dust like this...

It was pretty self-contained. Especially with that frame material and Tonto walking from the matte painting into Monument Valley over the credits.

As far as aborted trilogies go, John Carter's the real tragedy.

 

[ChrisFL]

Two thoughts:

The first is about Disney management's operational philosophy at least until the DCA makeover that everything they have done was right for the company. They never admit to any failures and never go back to a previous ride/show/etc.

The old attractions they replaced with mediocre ones never get fixed, get updated to even more mediocre ones or just closed entirely. The magic of the original experiences is lost to history.

One thing Uni has going for it is, even though they've replaced numerous attractions over the years, there has not been one major screw up IMO where they tore out a good ride for a really bad, cheap one.

Of course there are those who thought Kongfrontation was better than The Mummy, or that Jaws is better than what is being built now, but overall I think they've made good decisions.

The ONLY thing I can say that Disney has over Universal right now, the ONLY thing....is relaxing rides. Universal's parks are still the thrills and excitement parks.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Universal and the attractions they have, but 90% of them qualify as either fast, spinning, bumpy, loud, or wet. Disney has a lot of more sedate rides. Of course, I understand that those rides aren't what sells a park to guests, but I think opening a few more would be nice.