Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[CDavid]

I don't know what worries you about NGE. You know that GPS tracking devices are ubiquitous now for people, cats, dogs, wildlife, autos, trucks and most anything that moves. LoJack has been used for many years and with GPS tracking you can locate anything in real time. Isn't it a comfort to know that you can instantly find your dog if he escapes his enclosure? You don't have to put up "Lost" posters on all the telephone poles in your neighborhood or perform a door to door canvas to find Fluffy.

Or if you have an elderly parent that has fallen down and can't get up. With GPS tracking, you'll know exactly where they have fallen down. I see it as a win, win!

None of your examples are in any way pertinent to what Disney intends with this technology.

This can all really be done with the cell phone in your pocket. I am guessing the reason for getting the magic bands is to get those that don't have a cell phone and also this will be proprietary system that is probably more reliable than the cell phone in your pockets. They won't be relying on someone else's product.

Most people don't realize, but the a lot of the way DOT departments monitor traffic right now is by cell phones. This allows them to see back ups in certain locations. I would love to put a link on here to show you how Alabama DOT does it, but I don't think the average joe has access. Maybe I can get some screen shots.

I guess my point is, if you are completely against this type of technology, you either need to get rid of your cell phone and pretty much anything on you that gives out a signal or accept it.

You've heard the phrase that "just because everyone else is doing it that doesn't make it Ok for you"? The fact that the ability to track your cell phone already exists doesn't make it automatically acceptable to track people by Mouse Arrest Bands. It it does, let's all meet up in the Contemporary and refill our previous years' mugs, head over to the MK. We'll all rent ECV's and get guest assistance cards to speed things up. Oh, and you did remember to enter MK parking bypassing the toll booths, right?

It's all perfectly fine, because everyone's doing it.

 

[flynnibus]

I see your point but it also sheds light on part of the problem. If ALL of the designers/backers of the system are "detached" from the customer facing side then what?

But thats a huge leap from which we have nothing to jump from. Do I think there is some of that? I would have to believe so if outside contractors are doing most of the work. But we don't have enough perspective to take a slice of info and then extrapolate it to mean that is universal.

There is also the idea of context.. of which we have none here as it relates to these materials.

 

[Cody5242]

How would a monorail at Universal work exactly? The parks are walking distance from each other unless its meant for the hotels. How far are the hotels from the parks?

 

[GLaDOS]

How would a monorail at Universal work exactly? The parks are walking distance from each other unless its meant for the hotels. How far are the hotels from the parks?

It would not be a monorail for connecting the current land and properties.

 

[Funmeister]

How would a monorail at Universal work exactly? The parks are walking distance from each other unless its meant for the hotels. How far are the hotels from the parks?

I think a monorail will be needed with expansion. There is no room for a third gate currently in the main property....but....say a few miles away (Lockheed or another property) a monorail would serve a need.

 

[Cody5242]

It would not be a monorail for connecting the current land and properties.

Oh so they would use it to connect maybe a future water park and third gate?

 

[GLaDOS]

Oh so they would use it to connect maybe a future water park and third gate?

I honestly don't know what the plans are. From what I understand a potential monorail will be used to connect the current resort with new a new area or areas.

 

[sshindel]

loyalty cards, cell phone locations, internet history vs. your VACATION in terms of tracking what you're doing/spending/pooping/etc.

Youre essentially paying a company thousands of dollars for your vacation, and they then sell the information to OTHER companies based on your statistics and preferences. They're double dipping, for lack of better terms.

Instead of investing in new rides, lands, parks, etc. Theyre investing in a program to keep your vacay dollars, but make more money selling your info on what you do during that vacay to companies they are --already-- affiliated with. In a business sense (and I hate business, so there's that) they could be making more friends in the sandbox by sharing the shovel and toys.

I don't like this. At all.


Edit to add- you know, they don't even have to SELL the information. It could be used as a 'free' bargaining tool to get sponsors/keep sponsors, like Starbucks, Dole, etc that are already in their parks.

Actually, they are taking revenue they make in many, many ways and using that money to invest in the system.
And is it worse or better than companies who do the same exact thing, yet make a majority of their money off of the sale of this information and advertising dollars earned from it?

 

[Magenta Panther]

Yep.
That is a Hatbox Ghost, but not the Hatbox Ghost.
I believe the original is long lost, though they still have the original mold. (But, oddly, didn't use it there...)

Well, now we know the thing moves around, but to me...well, it's like the new Bride. Its face and features don't blend in with the designs in the original Mansion. Not impressed.

 

[AEfx]

Close the internet, somebody just equated Disney World to 1984.

Are you serious right now or is this the best troll post to ever exist?

I mean are you ACTUALLY trying to equate a vacation resort to a dystopian future novel where people are monitored 24/7 and those who disagree are killed?

There is a difference between making a conceptual comparison and equating two things (saying they are equal).

A paper airplane and a passenger airplane work on the same basic concepts so you can make comparisons (one uses hand motion to propel, one a fuel engine, but once moving they follow the same principles), but aren't equatable in terms of scope or danger (a paper airplane can take out an eye, but a passenger jet has a lot more damage potential).

That said, I largely am fine with Disney data mining me. I equate it to my TiVo. TiVo trakcs everything about what you watch, what you rewind, what you replay, etc. (that's how they have the "Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction was the most replayed moment of the year" stats, etc.) - but I don't really care. They can have my data, if somehow the world finds out I used to watch That's So Raven or Hannah Montana, I'm cool with that.

I feel the same about Disney - they already tracked us pretty well, and if I was staying on property (which is few and far between these days), sure, I have no problem with the bracelet. The bracelet isn't the problem. Track me all you want. And I don't personally have any safety or financial worry in using one.

The problem is that while it encompasses a whole lot more, the lynchpin of the entire "NextGen" project rests on it. It's how guests are interacting with all this new technology. And the question is, as a guest, how much is that investment actually going to help me or benefit my experience, even when I am eligible to use it?

The answer is - not much. At all.

Here's the thing - for the billion dollars (and again, that's the price Disney has put on all this), we are getting a marginally easier payment system and online fastpass reservations for select guests (those that stay on site). I'm willing to bet that if you take Gringotts/Hogwarts Express/Transformers/New Springfield, Universal spent less. And those are open to all guests.

It's funny, because you think HP V1 shook things up...this new expansion is sheer brilliancy. Lots of people who before just spent one day in IOA just to do Potter, now pretty much have to do both parks, and will choose to stay multiple days. And I have no doubt that Universal is going to make that much more attractive financially, much in the way that Disney did with MYW (where additional days become so cheap you almost feel ripped off if you don't take the deal). And the transportation between the parks is pretty much the absolutely coolest thing ever - I mean, it's a blue-sky fan concept come to life. No Potter fan is going to just do one park or the other anymore.

And next year, when they get there (since Universal doesn't take 5 years to build a little mountain), it's going to be as much of an uptick for them as HPV1 was. If they just added a new attraction to the existing Hogwarts area, it wouldn't have had nearly the impact. It's a brand new Harry Potter land...I would not be surprised one bit if there was a third piece of property that has already been staked out for another Harry Potter land - maybe even outside the current berm. Though I wouldn't consider any Universal attraction safe if they find another area and connect it with more transportation easily (either a continuation of the express or some other means).

Oh, and when people get there - Transformers, newly revamped Spidey, New Springfield...and who knows what else will be coming. Universal has upped the game again - and Avatar land shows nothing 2-years out the gate still, and we have rumors of a minor Star Wars land (which would be amazing, but it better be good).

I don't like thinking this way...I want Disney to be #1. But when the biggest investment is in a new bracelet...I just kinda can't help but wish it was something big and exciting for me to experience, not a tenuous promise to increase revenue generated by extra crap people buy to the stockholders. If they build it, people will come - but these bracelets are just there to attempt to pull a little bit more out of those who already do.

 

[SirLink]

Thats already begun to happen.

So we know Avatar got delayed because of it, what is the next thing to get pushed into another fiscal year is it DHS... at what point do they just cancel it and claim it was a mistake like PAL Mickey.

 

[PirateFrank]

I really think something needs to be said here. There are comparisons being made between Disney's use of data mining and the government's. I'm having a hard time appreciating these comparisons without seeing one very glaring and significant difference.

Disney is data mining for the purposes of targeted sales to consumers. Yes, it's a little weird that they're going to map where I go in the parks, what I spend my money on, etc. But at the end of the day, I still have to say yes or no when I purchase something. Making Disney out to be a big, evil, wallet sapping monster that is going to grab me, shake me upside down and collect all of the coins that fall from my pockets -- is quite extreme and melodramatic. At the end of the day, I can say "NO!" to every purchase they try to get out of me, no matter how well they pinpoint their targeting.

The government (please insert federal, state and municipal as you see fit) collects and mines taxpayer data for one purpose and one purpose only, the exercising of tyranny. Sure, you can say 'to protect us from terrorists' or 'to win the war on drugs' or <insert political red herring here>....but at the end of the day, the only reason why a government would do this is to leverage its power over its citizens.

Now, it's OK if you have a problem with the former. It's just that the latter isn't even in the same part of the solar system. So really? Comparing Disney to big bad Uncle Sam is a little extreme. One is a company is trying to maximize its profit. The other is a sovereign trying to leverage its power over a group of people. HUGE difference!

 

[MattM]

(Both of those words are emphasized. To the point of making one's head nearly explode...and, let's face it, those are not friendly words. HINT: If you do not like the NSA spying, why would you think that it is OK for a for profit corp?)

Well the obvious answer is I have the choice to not allow Disney to "spy" on me. I do not have that option with the NSA. Sometimes things really are that simple.

 

[MattM]

They want to know you, and your kids and -- really -- anyone and everyone, on an intimate level. They then want to turn that information into something else. At last check, I think it remains profit.

Just so I'm understanding you correctly here...we are supposed to be outraged that a public, for-profit company, whom we are under no obligation to give any business, is seeking to make a profit?

 

[MattM]

@WDW1974 most of what you were quoting and paraphrasing is what we've known all along. You're just now seeing the big scary terminology being elaborated in techicnical terms.

I'm a bit concerned tho how you admit to not understanding a good bit of it yet feel confident to stroke new fears.

The ideas of mesh networks and location are not new nefarious levels of detail in the tracking that has been discussed from the start.

This needed to be said.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Now, it's OK if you have a problem with the former. It's just that the latter isn't even in the same part of the solar system. So really? Comparing Disney to big bad Uncle Sam is a little extreme. One is a company is trying to maximize its profit. The other is a sovereign trying to leverage its power over a group of people. HUGE difference!

The issue is privacy. People dont expect the mouse to be watching their every move any more than they expect the NSA to be monitoring everything they do.

 

[ScoutN]

What I got from that is "Disney will see me eat at certain places and immediately have to spend time in certain facilities elsewhere that will prevent me from going into shops elsewhere."

 

[ChrisM]

Just so I'm understanding you correctly here...we are supposed to be outraged that a public, for-profit company, whom we are under no obligation to give any business, is seeking to make a profit?

Precisely. I don't understand the scandal here.

Even in the early 80's I can remember my folks describing WDW as a place uniquely engineered to separate them from their money. And we are supposed to be scandalized that they continue to pursue/perfect this angle? To quote Casablanca, "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"

Couple that with the musings about technologies he doesn't know anything about and this latest line of attack looks particularly...labored.

I'm sympathetic to 74's larger effort but he's barking up the wrong tree with this latest bit. Yes, it looks like yet another of Disney's patented moneypit boondoggle projects. Yes, the tangible benefits to the patron are minimal, if any exist at all. Yes, this money is not being spent on attractions that are much needed in the parks. I agree with all of that and it's a tragedy. But the rantings outside of that are truly tinfoil hat fodder.

 

[truecoat]

I really think something needs to be said here. There are comparisons being made between Disney's use of data mining and the government's. I'm having a hard time appreciating these comparisons without seeing one very glaring and significant difference.

Disney is data mining for the purposes of targeted sales to consumers. Yes, it's a little weird that they're going to map where I go in the parks, what I spend my money on, etc. But at the end of the day, I still have to say yes or no when I purchase something. Making Disney out to be a big, evil, wallet sapping monster that is going to grab me, shake me upside down and collect all of the coins that fall from my pockets -- is quite extreme and melodramatic. At the end of the day, I can say "NO!" to every purchase they try to get out of me, no matter how well they pinpoint their targeting.

The government (please insert federal, state and municipal as you see fit) collects and mines taxpayer data for one purpose and one purpose only, the exercising of tyranny. Sure, you can say 'to protect us from terrorists' or 'to win the war on drugs' or <insert political red herring here>....but at the end of the day, the only reason why a government would do this is to leverage its power over its citizens.

Now, it's OK if you have a problem with the former. It's just that the latter isn't even in the same part of the solar system. So really? Comparing Disney to big bad Uncle Sam is a little extreme. One is a company is trying to maximize its profit. The other is a sovereign trying to leverage its power over a group of people. HUGE difference!

If you have a key to the world card linked to your credit card, they can already track your purchases and habits in the park and have been able to do so for years. The NGE is an extension of this to the nth degree and includes everyone at the park not just the ones staying on property. Me? I don't really care, I'm on facebook and that's greatest giveaway of privacy ever invented.

 

[Witchy Chick]

Parents love electronic leashes for their children.

This parent does not. When we visited the World in Jan, I made sure to show my kids (ages 4.5 and not-quite-3 at the time) what a cast member looked like (costume, name tag). I told the kids that if they got lost while on vacation, to find someone with that kind of name tag and the cast member would help them.

Of course this is a pro-active parenting rather than reactive (waiting for Disney to "find" your lost child via tracking devices......I mean "MagicBands").