Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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alphac2005

Well-Known Member
There is no rush to "fix" WDW for the same reason governments operate with ruinous deficit spending: because fixing the problem doesn't benefit those in charge.

Nearly every single topic on these forums comes back to the aforementioned sentence, period. Line of the year. For all the going back and forth about the what if scenarios and rumors, future attractions, etc., it all comes back to what you say and back to a point that I've been very keen on consistently, the market. Just like virtually nothing has been learned from our housing and economic collapse (e.g. - Where I live, things are booming again, folks are buying homes way above their means again, and we're seeing new construction housing pricing going up 60k-100k per home year over year.) as we see new forms of phony derivative trading, the banks now are even more in a situation of too big to fail, and so-forth. Why? The all mighty dollar and those that are in charge of all of these institutions primary focus being here, today, and now. Their wallets, their bank accounts, their wealth.

When there is a high fiscal reward for those at the top layer of these gigantic corporations, it becomes even more difficult for them to deal with issues that could negatively impact them personally. So, Iger will never take the hit, but even before Iger, management at TDO will work their hardest to clean up their own mess so that the layer above them in Burbank doesn't take them to the woodshed. There is no culpability, no acceptance of reality, and a mentality of burning it down to the ground in order to save one's self interest.

Imagine a scenario where Robert Iger goes to the Board and admits failure and exploding expenditures on the NextGen project in Orlando. Well, don't, because it won't happen. But, let us play along for a bit. Most likely, he'll be told to clean up the mess by cutting heads (In corporate Disney, well not much of a chance there....), or cutting costs wherever else he can. Only if he was in an antagonizing position with the board would anything ever leak because why would the BOD ever want bad news to come out and then cause a negative impact in any of their fiscal holdings within the company? Never in an interview would Iger admit to negatives, overruns, and problems within the system. Many of these BOD sit on other major corporations boards, so they wouldn't want to be in a negative situation that could jeopardize any of those spots and again, their own self-interest.

That's where we are with corporate mentality today and it is worse than ever. This is not a political statement, this is a statement of corporate ethos that are in the gutter. For the negative with Iger, I honestly believe that he does truly have a long-term vision for the company and keeping it on sound financial ground and all of his "franchise" acquisitions are very evident of that. Vision for long-term viability and his bloated bonuses, though, are two different things. Work to mitigate any disaster that could be NextGen in the present for his own fiscal gain, while if anything negative becomes of it, it isn't his problem anylonger when he leaves. What is lost on many is that out of reality and insane egos that many CEO's have. I'm sure that Iger believes that even if there is an issue here, long-term it doesn't matter because he's many so many acquisitions and nearly everything he's done is blockbuster move.

Ever sit with a top dog CEO? While I deal with CEO's of small companies, my dad dealt with the big dogs. I can think of a certain head of a too big to fail, major financial institution right now that is looking to settle yet even more charges. This guy was talked up as the genius of the big banks during the crisis. His pockets continuously gets lined, but his massive bank is built on a house of cards along with his ego. Though all appearances of executives like him are that they don't care about where the business is going to be in say 50 years, I bet that he does because his ego is so grand. In reality, he's bought his own bull. In reality, it's about ego and personal wealth, not the long-term health of a company. Iger might have his vision for the long-term, but it always gets back to the human instinct of here and now, my survival, and to hell with everything else when push comes to shove.

Lost within all of this are some looming potential disasters including as how you so eloquently described the failure of the Orlando property. When people tire of MARVEL superhero films, fanbois pan the whoring of Star Wars, ESPN can't keep up with their carriage fee increases and the model of delivery of entertainment goes from a small minority of cutting the cord to a large percentage, major profit streams are sliced. It makes the point of how in reality the Orlando property is all that more vital to the company long-term.

My children will never think of Walt Disney World as I did. From the moment I left the palm trees and genius that was WDW from the audio-animatronics to the rides themselves and touched down in a cold, wintry New England airport, my mind was fixated on the next trip to Walt Disney World. Not Orlando, Walt Disney World. Not only was it turning me into a consumer of Disney theme park vacations for life, but also a consumer of the company's goods up and down the aisle. As a business owner, one could only dream of having a tool that is the ultimate marketing and branding tool.

As far as today's Disney executives are concerned, slapping the DISNEY label on something makes it of more value to the consumer, trusted, and earned. What has escaped them is that many are starting to think of it as a giant albatross that wants to brainwash your children and take your money, lots of your money. That isn't quite the positive branding that they should be going for.
 

SJFPKT

Active Member
The level of surveillance we are all under has certainly increased in our post-9/11 world.

I think the difference between your example and the NGE at Disney is the end game - one wants to help me avoid a traffic jam, and the other wants to sell me a Winnie the Pooh windbreaker.

I don't like being watched in either situation, but in your example, I am the person who benefits from the surveillance (by potentially avoiding a traffic jam) in the Disney example, it is the Mouse who benefits, by choosing to offer me a Winnie the Pooh windbreaker at 20% off because they knew I rode the Winnie the Pooh ride, yesterday at 2:14 PM.

I understand what you are saying, but my point was this technology is nothing new. It's just been put on steroids and probably one of the first proprietary systems with this kind of coverage. I mean if they could make this work across all 40,000 something acres, they could make a killing selling the technology alone. Our government would probably be one of the first customers. LOL
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Just a quick thanks to all my friends here who have sent nice notes my way. Much appreciated.

I have something based on INTERNAL WDW Co docs that I wanted to get out and move the discussion back onto what Disney is doing in O-Town versus what UNI is doing. Naturally, it all relates to NGE (which has had Tom Staggs in town ... apparently, he had a heated discussion at the Grand Flo with another 'suit' who may well have been George, but that hasn't been confirmed yet and this stuff really isn.t quite as important to me right now as it normally would be).

Anyway, like many of us in the fan community (and those well outside of it but with a known interest), I've been on a Spirited search for any information on the massive commitment TWDC has made to the nebulous program we have come to know as "Disney's Next Generation Experience." And information I have found as Yoda (soon to be in a 3D spectacular!!!) would say.

It might conflict with what we've been led to believe, it might conflict with some insider information previously posted to this site (including my own) and it may well be that the 'final product' will be a patchwork of all of this combined with work no one is yet aware of.

I do want to reinforce that no one has been able to confirm the current expenditure for NGE. No one knows or will say. It might as well be a government program because you aren't going to find anyone, likely other than 3-4 people at the VERY top of Disney, who know the answer.

We Do know, from reliable sources and company releases, it exceeds $1.1 billion. Looking at the reconfiguring of certain budgets, the movement of monies, many folks believe the $2 billion mark was passed long ago now and the steady march toward $3 billion is inevitable. That's all probably accurate.

Now, we want Disney to invest in the parks, in tangible ways for the casual guest as well as us crazy fans. We want existing offerings maintained and new ones brought on line. Not just E-tickets, but the 'Disney' of Walt Disney World that was not so dated, not so stale, not so out of touch.

We are getting NGE. So, that's what I'm focusing my MAGICal time on right now.

Having said that,keep in mind, some of that NGE budget is going toward required improvements in both IT infrastructure and actual brick and mortar within the parks. No, not new attractions. The redos/renovations of queues, gift shops and window displays, food locations, doorways and door locks...and, yes, even MAGICal toilets (paging @TalkingHead) appear to have made their way into the NGE spend. Much has been speculated about this project, almost nothing has been confirmed beyond certain aspects of MM+ by Disney (mostly relating to FP+). and Disney, no doubt, prefers it that way.

Here's the problem: Disney is declaring publicly the opposite of what the aim/goal/mandate for NGE was and is.

Everything I've read, again from internal docs, about Disney's work on NGE is layered with terminology including data mining, machine learning, and advanced applications for all sorts of embedded systems. Those aren't my words. Those words come directly from NGE's master plan.Those are Disney's words.

Again, reread that.

In everything I have now reviewed, there's not merely an oppressive reliance on data but something more. There is, within the project, specific reference of the need to "overcome" line of sight deficiencies and the challenges of geolocation capture within large structures (i.e., anything from the Main Street's Emporium to EPCOT's Living with the Land biodomes).

ZigBee, in addition to everything else packed into those no-so-MAGICal-bands, is mentioned liberally. The absolute necessity for engineers to employ "mesh networks" and find "reliable methods to locate" parkgoers is emphasized. Whether this was accomplished isn't known, but - given the language - NGE relies heavily on this aspect.

A healthy portion of NGE references, unambiguously, the need to not just capture but exploit and warehouse data. (Both of those words are emphasized. To the point of making one's head nearly explode...and, let's face it, those are not friendly words. HINT: If you do not like the NSA spying, why would you think that it is OK for a for profit corp?)

The "venue" we regard as Walt Disney World is cited as allowing investigation into consumer behavior with "real-life guests and customers" (us) and, in particular, is touted as being 'the only place on the planet' that affords "unique investigations" of a scale and density to best exploit the convergence of technology with consumer behavior.

Now, limited as I may be in the technical aspects of some of this, and wanting as I might be to believe Disney has no interest in our specific behavior(s), some folks appear to be giving Disney a bit too much of that long ago squandered 'trust' as the project screams Big Data. And more.

There are entire coding 'departments' that appear to be focused on pulling stunningly specific data points from A BAND. No, not populations/patterns. From individuals. ID-based folios where minute-by-minute geolocation is coupled with all sorts of stuff. For example, from when you enter an attraction/building to when you exit...that's a given. But, that 'mesh' system designed for WDW seems intent on knowing exactly how your time was spent in that building.

And, of course, when you aren't actually 'hiding' in an attraction, shop or toilet stall. This stuff is referenced, folks. I guess, it appears, Disney wants to be on the forefront of this world without privacy thing. Understand, there is no knowing exactly what TWDC will be able to deliver. This is, however, what NGE was (is?) all about. Well, all of that and exploiting it for maximum profit - as the projects declares in the opening graf/outline of every piece of it I've been made privy to.

Looking at it, and some of the terminology (a fair amount, I admit, I do not have the required background to understand on a first or second read) that appears out of place in a for-profit company's planning and projects, I'm at a loss as to how this was ever designed to be a legit profit engine without the selling that data. From the start, I said that's what this was all about. I'm more convinced of that today that at any time since NGE began at Disney.

They want to know you, and your kids and -- really -- anyone and everyone, on an intimate level. They then want to turn that information into something else. At last check, I think it remains profit.


I'm sure that this has been discussed in detail by all you crazy night-owls around here, but I wanted to ask. How different is this than the levels of current tracking that is done on us now every single day? Our cell phones, our internet history, our loyalty cards. I have a device in my car that provides data about every single mile I drive to my insurance company, and allows them to see my driving patterns. I have a hundred loyalty program cards dangling on my keychain that show my purchase patterns. My cell phone tracks my location, to which my mobile company can (and does) sell to third parties. There are a million cameras on the street / stores / ATMs that can be currently be leveraged to find individuals.
Years ago, I did some consulting at a company, and the project I worked on sold information about anyone in the US (ok, anyone with a credit score) to customers based on their credit activity. If you have certain criteria (credit score, demographics, etc) and have recently been, lets say, looking for an auto loan, this information could be purchased and delivered to, say, a bank so that they could try and sell you their auto loan instead. Each program could be targeted to specific information, but the end result was your information was sold to "customers" so that they could try and sell you more things. This program has been going on for at least 6 years to my knowledge, but I can guess it goes back farther.
None of this is new, the only ground breaking thing here I would guess would be the size of the program. This is the way of our current world. Companies amass data at staggering new rates every day. They mine this data to try and make their business work better, and yes, to try and sell you more widgets.
 

RunnerEd

Well-Known Member
This can all really be done with the cell phone in your pocket. I am guessing the reason for getting the magic bands is to get those that don't have a cell phone and also this will be proprietary system that is probably more reliable than the cell phone in your pockets. They won't be relying on someone else's product.

Most people don't realize, but the a lot of the way DOT departments monitor traffic right now is by cell phones. This allows them to see back ups in certain locations. I would love to put a link on here to show you how Alabama DOT does it, but I don't think the average joe has access. Maybe I can get some screen shots.

I guess my point is, if you are completely against this type of technology, you either need to get rid of your cell phone and pretty much anything on you that gives out a signal or accept it.

EDIT: Of course I forgot to add, the magic band gives them the capability to put demographics with the little point on the map.

Great points. Between bluetooth, RFID, and cell phone tracking, all of this technology is already existing. I think the "tragic band" allows them to control the pace of the technology that they track and will allow Disney to upgrade that tech when they want to, not when "purpletooth," RFID 2.0, and other technologies render their tracking capability obsolete.
 

ucanfly

Member
I keep coming back to a parallel between TDC's treatment of WDW and Orwell's book, 1984. Maybe it's a crazy stretch but hear me out - unless you haven't read the book. Sorry in advance for the essay..

WDW goers/pixie dusters have an unquestionable love for Disney, much like the citizens of Oceania have an unquestionable love for the party. They consider anything Disney the best and no other vacation destination can live up to Disney's standards in their mind.

Food quality: In 1984, citizens could only obtain poor quality cigarettes and alcohol but the gov't referred to it as 'victory gin' and 'victory cigarettes.' Anyone see a parallel with the terrible food quality at WDW while convincing guests it's gourmet? See limited edition monsters cupcake..

Innovention: the part laid claim to inventions already in existence and would celebrate them to make sure all citizens knew what they 'achieved.' Epcot's innovation pavilions apparently celebrates new inventions.. Also, the celebrated 'new fantasyland' - a ton of hype for not much new offerings. At least we get some new gift shops and DVC booths..

MM+/Tracking: I'd imagine the big brother system @WDW1974 spoke of will be marketed to us as a huge investment to make our trip more magical/personalized and it was done for our benefit, such as tracking. Yet it's obvious to see the improved efficiency and potential profits to be realized if you can actually get inside the head of your customers..

Disney controls a certain niche - ignorant, uncultured, gullible, and ultimately dumb guests. These guests see the disney stamp and immediately assume its the best, no questions. Said guests do not know or care about nutrition so they eat and enjoy freezer burnt, over-processed, over-salted food. They faithfully wait in a 50 min+ line for an underwhelming three minute experience. They see the lone-ranger then buy the dvd because of expensive action scenes and Johnny Depp. They never experienced anything better than a motel 6 so they think a Disney Deluxe compares to a Ritz. They see the unfinished SDMT eyesore then see their bounce back offer and must book because that two minute ride will change their life if its Disney! As long as Disney delivers a kiss goodnight, and a few smiling CMs call these guests by name (catching them off guard because they forgot the tacky pin on their BBQ stained sleeveless T), they had a personalized, 'unique' experience and made memories that'll last forever.

Bottom line: WDW targets a certain consumer, and that consumer helped mk set attendance records this quarter. If others happen to come back based on nostalgia's sake (like I'm assuming most of us will), all the better for TDC.


PS @wdwmagic any chance you could start a bi-weekly insiders blog for us grazers? It would help us avoid sifting through people's Star Wars viewing preferences etc when trying to find news and rumours/related discussions.
 

RyenDeckard

Well-Known Member
I keep coming back to a parallel between TDC's treatment of WDW and Orwell's book, 1984. Maybe it's a crazy stretch but hear me out - unless you haven't read the book. Sorry in advance for the essay..

WDW goers/pixie dusters have an unquestionable love for Disney, much like the citizens of Oceania have an unquestionable love for the party. They consider anything Disney the best and no other vacation destination can live up to Disney's standards in their mind.

Food quality: In 1984, citizens could only obtain poor quality cigarettes and alcohol but the gov't referred to it as 'victory gin' and 'victory cigarettes.' Anyone see a parallel with the terrible food quality at WDW while convincing guests it's gourmet? See limited edition monsters cupcake..

Innovention: the part laid claim to inventions already in existence and would celebrate them to make sure all citizens knew what they 'achieved.' Epcot's innovation pavilions apparently celebrates new inventions.. Also, the celebrated 'new fantasyland' - a ton of hype for not much new offerings. At least we get some new gift shops and DVC booths..

MM+/Tracking: I'd imagine the big brother system @WDW1974 spoke of will be marketed to us as a huge investment to make our trip more magical/personalized and it was done for our benefit, such as tracking. Yet it's obvious to see the improved efficiency and potential profits to be realized if you can actually get inside the head of your customers..

Disney controls a certain niche - ignorant, uncultured, gullible, and ultimately dumb guests. These guests see the disney stamp and immediately assume its the best, no questions. Said guests do not know or care about nutrition so they eat and enjoy freezer burnt, over-processed, over-salted food. They faithfully wait in a 50 min+ line for an underwhelming three minute experience. They see the lone-ranger then buy the dvd because of expensive action scenes and Johnny Depp. They never experienced anything better than a motel 6 so they think a Disney Deluxe compares to a Ritz. They see the unfinished SDMT eyesore then see their bounce back offer and must book because that two minute ride will change their life if its Disney! As long as Disney delivers a kiss goodnight, and a few smiling CMs call these guests by name (catching them off guard because they forgot the tacky pin on their BBQ stained sleeveless T), they had a personalized, 'unique' experience and made memories that'll last forever.

Bottom line: WDW targets a certain consumer, and that consumer helped mk set attendance records this quarter. If others happen to come back based on nostalgia's sake (like I'm assuming most of us will), all the better for TDC.


PS @wdwmagic any chance you could start a bi-weekly insiders blog for us grazers? It would help us avoid sifting through people's Star Wars viewing preferences etc when trying to find news and rumours/related discussions.

Close the internet, somebody just equated Disney World to 1984.

Are you serious right now or is this the best troll post to ever exist?

I mean are you ACTUALLY trying to equate a vacation resort to a dystopian future novel where people are monitored 24/7 and those who disagree are killed?
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Close the internet, somebody just equated Disney World to 1984.

Are you serious right now or is this the best troll post to ever exist?

I mean are you ACTUALLY trying to equate a vacation resort to a dystopian future novel where people are monitored 24/7 and those who disagree are killed?

That's MM+ 2.0. If your Magic Chip (which is actually embedded under your skin) senses that you have stepped within the bounds of the UNI property, it sends repeated charges of 1.21 gigawatts through your body until it senses you've passed on. Then it uses your demographic information to notify your next of kin that the Magic Chip is non-transferable, and that any bill left open on your resort bill is their responsibility.
 

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
Everything I've read, again from internal docs, about Disney's work on NGE is layered with terminology including data mining, machine learning, and advanced applications for all sorts of embedded systems. Those aren't my words. Those words come directly from NGE's master plan.Those are Disney's words.

Again, reread that.

In everything I have now reviewed, there's not merely an oppressive reliance on data but something more. There is, within the project, specific reference of the need to "overcome" line of sight deficiencies and the challenges of geolocation capture within large structures (i.e., anything from the Main Street's Emporium to EPCOT's Living with the Land biodomes).

ZigBee, in addition to everything else packed into those no-so-MAGICal-bands, is mentioned liberally. The absolute necessity for engineers to employ "mesh networks" and find "reliable methods to locate" parkgoers is emphasized. Whether this was accomplished isn't known, but - given the language - NGE relies heavily on this aspect.

A healthy portion of NGE references, unambiguously, the need to not just capture but exploit and warehouse data. (Both of those words are emphasized. To the point of making one's head nearly explode...and, let's face it, those are not friendly words. HINT: If you do not like the NSA spying, why would you think that it is OK for a for profit corp?)

The "venue" we regard as Walt Disney World is cited as allowing investigation into consumer behavior with "real-life guests and customers" (us) and, in particular, is touted as being 'the only place on the planet' that affords "unique investigations" of a scale and density to best exploit the convergence of technology with consumer behavior.

Now, limited as I may be in the technical aspects of some of this, and wanting as I might be to believe Disney has no interest in our specific behavior(s), some folks appear to be giving Disney a bit too much of that long ago squandered 'trust' as the project screams Big Data. And more.

There are entire coding 'departments' that appear to be focused on pulling stunningly specific data points from A BAND. No, not populations/patterns. From individuals. ID-based folios where minute-by-minute geolocation is coupled with all sorts of stuff. For example, from when you enter an attraction/building to when you exit...that's a given. But, that 'mesh' system designed for WDW seems intent on knowing exactly how your time was spent in that building.

And, of course, when you aren't actually 'hiding' in an attraction, shop or toilet stall. This stuff is referenced, folks. I guess, it appears, Disney wants to be on the forefront of this world without privacy thing. Understand, there is no knowing exactly what TWDC will be able to deliver. This is, however, what NGE was (is?) all about. Well, all of that and exploiting it for maximum profit - as the projects declares in the opening graf/outline of every piece of it I've been made privy to.

Looking at it, and some of the terminology (a fair amount, I admit, I do not have the required background to understand on a first or second read) that appears out of place in a for-profit company's planning and projects, I'm at a loss as to how this was ever designed to be a legit profit engine without the selling that data. From the start, I said that's what this was all about. I'm more convinced of that today that at any time since NGE began at Disney.

They want to know you, and your kids and -- really -- anyone and everyone, on an intimate level. They then want to turn that information into something else. At last check, I think it remains profit.

So, based on the above..... if this does what they want it to, then triangulation of guests (and their minor children) will become a reality.

Planning on a V&A dinner while leaving your 9 year old back in CBR?

Even if TDO was able to get 'pick of the litter' for cast members via a respectable wage, with 50k CMs, strictly on percentages some will have....issues....

Now outside of these very serious problems that this can cause, just talking about the parkgoing experience, there is a worst case scenario:

It ends up making them tons of coin.

If that happens, what incentive would there be to improve offerings? Would this be the 'all clear' to add it to their other properties? And would the competition see that and follow? Why would they care about the guests that this drives away if the ones that don't leave make up for it (and then some) through both increased on site spending and cashing in on the profile on the back end?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Worse, the gut feeling I had when I read in docs related to the NGE project the phrase ''field experiment'' to refer to people's vacations at WDW. What exactly are they doing here? What's the purpose? It certainly isn't to out-do the competition in the O-Town theme park wars because they're not participating as of yet (check back in four or five years).

It sounds more like someone detached from the whole customer facing side of the business. To use the analogy.. a doctor with little or no bedside manner. They use terms, they talk about patients as objects instead of people, etc. Is that a function of the author and audience? Or is that a wider systemic problem? Can't say with just a single perspective...
 

dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Casinos in Vegas are watering at the mouth for this technology I imagine!

They already have it. Saw a demo on some tracking tech that is installed in the Bellagio. If you have WiFi device, and you don't turn the WiFi off everytime you are done using it, you can easily be tracked. Kind of freaky seeing all the little blue dots wandering around the casino.

This can all really be done with the cell phone in your pocket. I am guessing the reason for getting the magic bands is to get those that don't have a cell phone and also this will be proprietary system that is probably more reliable than the cell phone in your pockets. They won't be relying on someone else's product.

Most people don't realize, but the a lot of the way DOT departments monitor traffic right now is by cell phones. This allows them to see back ups in certain locations. I would love to put a link on here to show you how Alabama DOT does it, but I don't think the average joe has access. Maybe I can get some screen shots.

I guess my point is, if you are completely against this type of technology, you either need to get rid of your cell phone and pretty much anything on you that gives out a signal or accept it.

EDIT: Of course I forgot to add, the magic band gives them the capability to put demographics with the little point on the map.
Great points. Between bluetooth, RFID, and cell phone tracking, all of this technology is already existing. I think the "tragic band" allows them to control the pace of the technology that they track and will allow Disney to upgrade that tech when they want to, not when "purpletooth," RFID 2.0, and other technologies render their tracking capability obsolete.

I agree. I can't see of any reason for them to blow all this money to reinvent tech than can already be bought off the shelf, other than to ensure 100% (or pretty close to it) buy in on tracking that they have control over, and isn't subject to the latest whims of the tech companies.
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
They already have it. Saw a demo on some tracking tech that is installed in the Bellagio. If you have WiFi device, and you don't turn the WiFi off everytime you are done using it, you can easily be tracked. Kind of freaky seeing all the little blue dots wandering around the casino.




I agree. I can't see of any reason for them to blow all this money to reinvent tech than can already be bought off the shelf, other than to ensure 100% (or pretty close to it) buy in on tracking that they have control over, and isn't subject to the latest whims of the tech companies.

That is cool. I was thinking more of a MagicBand-esque device/wrist band/lanyard that also acts as your key to your room, credit to purchase meals and merchandise and the one that really worries me...

Imagine never having to put physical money into a slot machine ever again? THAT is scary!
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
(pages 135-137)

So, from what I gather on the NGE front, Disney will know where I'm at, what I went on, what I ate, and when I stop to pee.

From what Spirit has recently posted (again, pages 135 to 137, I'll read the rest after I get my thoughts out now)if I go by my last trip to WDW, they would have known the following about me, and would be basically able to sell this information to other companies. How? Easy.

-Staying at the Polynesian = a person willing to shell out stupid amounts of money for a hotel. Therefore, maybe expensive hotels (insert hotel names here, I don't travel enough to know) will email and/or snail mail me information regarding their hotel packages.

-I'm a coffee junkie because I stopped at the Kona Café and the little café next to it for an iced coffee every morning of my trip. In addition, at Captn' Cooks I got an iced coffee with the refillable mug as well as fruit juices and tons of ice water. No soda. Perhaps Folgers, or Maxwell House, or even Starbucks (more than likely, Starbucks) would be able to solicit me, knowing that I really like iced coffee. Pepsi, Coca Cola would be wasting their time with someone like me- I don't drink soda. NGE would be able to tell them so.

-I ate at the Pinnochio haus twice... both times nomming down a flatbread. Panera might be game to send me coupons to see if I'd like to try theirs- or maybe even Subway. NGE could let them know that I went there specifically for the flatbread and not anything else on the menu.

-At Epcot I made purchases both at Mexico pav and Germany. Possible travel agencies might be interested in knowing that I'm interested in those two- and the rest didn't hold my attention quite so well. AAA could start mailing me offers after I get back home.


-At Captn' Cooks I'm guilty of consuming Dole Whips (very late) each evening after a nice long swim in the pool. Dole surely understands that because I enjoyed them .... 5 nights in a row... that I'd probably like some pineapple offers. And sure, I would. They'll be in the mail soon.

I could go on and on. But to the people who are still trying to defend this... project... maybe the above will put it in an easy to understand perspective.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have 5 more pages to catch up on.

@WDW1974 thank you for the long post with information regarding NGE.
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
I'm sure that this has been discussed in detail by all you crazy night-owls around here, but I wanted to ask. How different is this than the levels of current tracking that is done on us now every single day? Our cell phones, our internet history, our loyalty cards. I have a device in my car that provides data about every single mile I drive to my insurance company, and allows them to see my driving patterns. I have a hundred loyalty program cards dangling on my keychain that show my purchase patterns. My cell phone tracks my location, to which my mobile company can (and does) sell to third parties. There are a million cameras on the street / stores / ATMs that can be currently be leveraged to find individuals.
Years ago, I did some consulting at a company, and the project I worked on sold information about anyone in the US (ok, anyone with a credit score) to customers based on their credit activity. If you have certain criteria (credit score, demographics, etc) and have recently been, lets say, looking for an auto loan, this information could be purchased and delivered to, say, a bank so that they could try and sell you their auto loan instead. Each program could be targeted to specific information, but the end result was your information was sold to "customers" so that they could try and sell you more things. This program has been going on for at least 6 years to my knowledge, but I can guess it goes back farther.
None of this is new, the only ground breaking thing here I would guess would be the size of the program. This is the way of our current world. Companies amass data at staggering new rates every day. They mine this data to try and make their business work better, and yes, to try and sell you more widgets.


loyalty cards, cell phone locations, internet history vs. your VACATION in terms of tracking what you're doing/spending/pooping/etc.

Youre essentially paying a company thousands of dollars for your vacation, and they then sell the information to OTHER companies based on your statistics and preferences. They're double dipping, for lack of better terms.

Instead of investing in new rides, lands, parks, etc. Theyre investing in a program to keep your vacay dollars, but make more money selling your info on what you do during that vacay to companies they are --already-- affiliated with. In a business sense (and I hate business, so there's that) they could be making more friends in the sandbox by sharing the shovel and toys.

I don't like this. At all.


Edit to add- you know, they don't even have to SELL the information. It could be used as a 'free' bargaining tool to get sponsors/keep sponsors, like Starbucks, Dole, etc that are already in their parks.
 

Pentacat

Well-Known Member
It sounds more like someone detached from the whole customer facing side of the business. To use the analogy.. a doctor with little or no bedside manner. They use terms, they talk about patients as objects instead of people, etc. Is that a function of the author and audience? Or is that a wider systemic problem? Can't say with just a single perspective...

I see your point but it also sheds light on part of the problem. If ALL of the designers/backers of the system are "detached" from the customer facing side then what? These huge projects have a momentum of their own and by the time it gets to someone that finally says whoa, this is never going to fly with customers...it's WAY to late to stop the crazy train.

It just sounds like there were no "sanity checks" in the early development so you get the dream system of some one (or some small group) that is way out of touch with the "average" Disney customer.
 

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
loyalty cards, cell phone locations, internet history vs. your VACATION in terms of tracking what you're doing/spending/pooping/etc.

Youre essentially paying a company thousands of dollars for your vacation, and they then sell the information to OTHER companies based on your statistics and preferences. They're double dipping, for lack of better terms.

Instead of investing in new rides, lands, parks, etc. Theyre investing in a program to keep your vacay dollars, but make more money selling your info on what you do during that vacay to companies they are --already-- affiliated with. In a business sense (and I hate business, so there's that) they could be making more friends in the sandbox by sharing the shovel and toys.

I don't like this. At all.


Edit to add- you know, they don't even have to SELL the information. It could be used as a 'free' bargaining tool to get sponsors/keep sponsors, like Starbucks, Dole, etc that are already in their parks.

Even if someone could care less about getting hammered with SPAM, making more per guest means they have to do less to earn new guests on stuff like new attractions, physical maintenane, etc...
 
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