Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

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WDW1974 said:
Everything I've read, again from internal docs, about Disney's work on NGE is layered with terminology including data mining, machine learning, and advanced applications for all sorts of embedded systems. Those aren't my words. Those words come directly from NGE's master plan.Those are Disney's words.

Again, reread that.

In everything I have now reviewed, there's not merely an oppressive reliance on data but something more. There is, within the project, specific reference of the need to "overcome" line of sight deficiencies and the challenges of geolocation capture within large structures (i.e., anything from the Main Street's Emporium to EPCOT's Living with the Land biodomes).

ZigBee, in addition to everything else packed into those no-so-MAGICal-bands, is mentioned liberally. The absolute necessity for engineers to employ "mesh networks" and find "reliable methods to locate" parkgoers is emphasized. Whether this was accomplished isn't known, but - given the language - NGE relies heavily on this aspect.

A healthy portion of NGE references, unambiguously, the need to not just capture but exploit and warehouse data. (Both of those words are emphasized. To the point of making one's head nearly explode...and, let's face it, those are not friendly words. HINT: If you do not like the NSA spying, why would you think that it is OK for a for profit corp?)

The "venue" we regard as Walt Disney World is cited as allowing investigation into consumer behavior with "real-life guests and customers" (us) and, in particular, is touted as being 'the only place on the planet' that affords "unique investigations" of a scale and density to best exploit the convergence of technology with consumer behavior.

Now, limited as I may be in the technical aspects of some of this, and wanting as I might be to believe Disney has no interest in our specific behavior(s), some folks appear to be giving Disney a bit too much of that long ago squandered 'trust' as the project screams Big Data. And more.

There are entire coding 'departments' that appear to be focused on pulling stunningly specific data points from A BAND. No, not populations/patterns. From individuals. ID-based folios where minute-by-minute geolocation is coupled with all sorts of stuff. For example, from when you enter an attraction/building to when you exit...that's a given. But, that 'mesh' system designed for WDW seems intent on knowing exactly how your time was spent in that building.

And, of course, when you aren't actually 'hiding' in an attraction, shop or toilet stall. This stuff is referenced, folks. I guess, it appears, Disney wants to be on the forefront of this world without privacy thing. Understand, there is no knowing exactly what TWDC will be able to deliver. This is, however, what NGE was (is?) all about. Well, all of that and exploiting it for maximum profit - as the projects declares in the opening graf/outline of every piece of it I've been made privy to.

Looking at it, and some of the terminology (a fair amount, I admit, I do not have the required background to understand on a first or second read) that appears out of place in a for-profit company's planning and projects, I'm at a loss as to how this was ever designed to be a legit profit engine without the selling that data. From the start, I said that's what this was all about. I'm more convinced of that today that at any time since NGE began at Disney.

They want to know you, and your kids and -- really -- anyone and everyone, on an intimate level. They then want to turn that information into something else. At last check, I think it remains profit.
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I'm sorry, but that's absolutely fantastic stuff to read. I've done a full 180, full paradigm shift about this subject. At last the Spirit of EPCOT returns to WDW. (As in the classic phrase, not the poster - who's more likely to be found up the 192)
This bit in particular seems to come directly from Walt's EPCOT video:

The "venue" we regard as Walt Disney World is cited as allowing investigation into consumer behavior with "real-life guests and customers" (us) and, in particular, is touted as being 'the only place on the planet' that affords "unique investigations" of a scale and density to best exploit the convergence of technology with consumer behavior.​

Hurrah! At last WDW lives up to its promise again to be an experimental environment on a truly unique scale for American capitalist innovation, visited by real-life test subjects.

To hell with Transformers and rides that are about shoving tv show merch own our throats, leave that theme park kiddie play to UNI. What's happening at WDW is far more exciting and profound. And a return to WDW's roots too.
 
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S

SirOinksALot

Active Member
Arewethereyet! said:
I agree with that...but I think the point he was making was that there was hard evidence and not just an opinion. And as you illustrated he might not fully understand what he was reading. But knowing him as we do.....I don't think he is giving this opinion strictly on his own analysis of that written info. You think?

I will make this caveat though...besides the Spirit we havnt had anyother evidence of what has been purported....correct? Someone correct me if I am wrong. As much as I respect some folks around here such as 74....I need some vetting of information before we can call it truth.
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This is the exact same rant he went on in January. And like Flynn said, there's a difference between reading something you don't understand and calling it a smoking gun and something actually being a smoking gun.

I'm guessing half the people angry posting about this have Android phones in their pockets anyways......
 
FigmentJedi

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
So when are they actually going to put this in the ride?
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Someone on Micechat's Haunted Mansion thread noticed some clutter in the Hatbox Ghost's old Attic spot being shifted around recently...

Of course more likely, he's going in after this year's Holiday, this time for sure.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Arewethereyet! said:
I agree with that...but I think the point he was making was that there was hard evidence and not just an opinion. And as you illustrated he might not fully understand what he was reading. But knowing him as we do.....I don't think he is giving this opinion strictly on his own analysis of that written info. You think?

I will make this caveat though...besides the Spirit we havnt had anyother evidence of what has been purported....correct? Someone correct me if I am wrong. As much as I respect some folks around here such as 74....I need some vetting of information before we can call it truth.
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Id be very interested to see those documents magically appear online for everyone to read.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Jeffxz said:
So, I've been thinking about a scenario for a few months now, but I'm not really a tin-foil hat type of guy so I thought that it would be really, really far fetched. Spirit's info seems to lend this thought a little bit of credibility now.

If you take a second to think about it, Disney has an asset that no other private corporation in the world has; They effectively own a city with a population or 50,000+ willing guinea pigs to experiment on. There is no other corporation that could gain this type of experience in the field of surveillance that Disney can.

So the next time there is a terror attack and the powers that be determine that all citizens need to be tracked at all times, there will be only one company out there that has experience doing so. And with a government contract of that size, they can see an ROI on that 3 Billion in a weekend.

While I don't necessarily think this is the intended outcome of NGE, I don't think its impossible either.
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Phenomenal to think about. Fantastic. This is what the entire Florida project has been all about all along!

If you take a second to think about it, Disney has an asset that no other private corporation in the world has; They effectively own a city with a population or 50,000+ willing guinea pigs to experiment on. There is no other corporation that could gain this type of experience​

EPCOT as effectively a city, its people acting as willing guinea pigs. A testcase for new experimental prototypes of American industry. Which may ultimately support American war effort. And may even gain TWDC itself government defense contracts in case of war.

It seriously doesn't get more Walt Disney than this. This is putting the 'Walt' back in Disney World.
 
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Cody5242

Cody5242

Well-Known Member
reported this on twitter: "It seems like plans for a Star Wars speeder bike attraction may be hidden inside the Parks and Resorts pavilion..."
#D23Expo"
I hope someone will find the plans!
 
Voice of Disney sanity

Voice of Disney sanity

Well-Known Member
PhotoDave219 said:
Im still trying to process this.

So where does this leave us? What is the end result here?

I understand Disney wanting to know purchasing patterns, etc., basically how to sell the resort better to us. Sadly, they dont need a $3B infastructure upgrade to sell the resort to us - The rides and entertainment do. Thats why we go, rides and entertainment.

Now what I want to know is what is Disney going to do with all this consumer data. Wouldnt you love to know who goes to Disneyworld and what they buy? That information is insanely valuable; who wouldnt pay through the nose to get targeted spending information on those with disposable incomes? Does Disney plan on trying to trying to target me based on what I do at the theme park? (Which should be weird, Enjoys jungle cruise, TTA and the princess room... figure that one out, MM+) Or do they intend on selling it to a 3rd party?

Granted, they've manage to monetize your method of park entry - Not only are you buying a ticket, you've got ways to accessorize your park ticket. I have a certain amount of begrudging respect for that because thats some serious chutzpah there.

On the other hand, bravo to the chutzpah of some of the managers who managed to allocate some of that money to get some much needed infastructure upgrades to their part of the world.

I dont get what Disney is trying to accomplish with this. If youre trying to steer the crowd in certain directions, its not going to work - You're still going to have 30k on Main Street for parade/fireworks because the best views of parade/fireworks are from main street.

If youre looking for ROI, This isnt it. You're looking for a Carsland attendance bump? Invest in entertainment and attractions - Give guests reasons to come and keep coming back. Keep making changes, keep the excitement level up. If you build it, they will come. $3B does more than just make over a few parks, it builds a brand new one.

I guess the short term answer is to get an RFID blocking wallet and to put your park ticket in there. Pay for things in cash. Buck the system.

Or we just stop going.
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We may be missing something here. It occurs to me that disney is going to use this information primarily to do what they are saying they want to do with it. It is possible they could crunch the data of all those in the parks and create some type of matrix that can use FP+ and other strategies to minimize (or someday eliminate) everyone's wait times.
 
Skip

Skip

Well-Known Member
I know we're talking about some much bigger picture ideas here, but did we really just gloss over the potential return of the Hatbox Ghost?

Maybe it's because The Haunted Mansion remains one of my favorite rides of all time, but that's some huge cult news, IMO.

(No, it doesn't excuse all of this terrifying next-gen data-mining, Disney!)
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
doctornick said:
OK. I think most everyone can buy that there are problems at WDW. My ongoing question is: why aren't they addressing it and quickly? Even with there being a bureaucracy, I would have thought something would have been officially greenlit for DHS sometime in this past year -- if nothing else, why not build in Soundstage 1 which sits empty and is just begging for something to be put there?

I mean, Kathy Mangum was moved over to WDW a year ago, right? There was some hoopla as to that move meaning something would be build soon and yet.... what exactly is she overseeing?
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She is WDI portfolio leader for TPFKaTD-MGMS and EPCOT. In essence, though, she is WDI's top dog in FL right now.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

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Original Poster
ParentsOf4 said:
There is no rush to "fix" WDW for the same reason governments operate with ruinous deficit spending: because fixing the problem doesn't benefit those in charge.

Consider Iger's position. He's already invested TWDC's capital heavily in Shanghai Disneyland, DCA, 2 cruise ships, New Fantasyland, and MyMagic+. Plus he's got Avatarland ramping up soon. In his mind, he's pumped a ton of cash into Parks & Resorts. He is under pressure from Wall Street to cut back on expenditures. Spending even more today doesn't keep him in the good graces of Wall Street. It's easier to paper over today's problems with higher prices and quality cuts, kicking the can down the road. He'll make a nice announcement about all the whiz-bangs going into DHS so he gets the credit but will be careful to make sure that the big spending doesn't start in earnest until after he leaves. Iger will be gone in 3 years. At that time, it becomes someone else's problem.

For anyone who loves WDW, the problem today is that it looks look Iger made a series of really questionable (OK, bad) decisions affecting WDW. (When it comes to CEO, I'm a big believer in Harry Truman's "the buck stops here" attitude. Ultimately, Iger's calling all the big shots. Investing hundreds of millions is a big decision even at a company the size of TWDC.)

Consider Iger's major mistakes:
  • Losing the Harry Potter IP to Universal - Disney had the inside track on this and, for several reasons, let the deal slip away. If we all pretend for a moment that WWOHP as it exists today was at WDW, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The saddest part (from Iger's perspective) is that his bad decision let the competition back into the market. And for cheap. For perhaps no single better reason, WDW theme parks are paying the price for Iger's bad call on this.
  • Heavily investing in NextGen - Iger really believed this was going to be a magical elixir that would cure all of WDW's woes. As of follower of Blue Ocean Strategy and having seen the poor financial investments in theme parks made by Eisner in his last few years, the inexperienced (when it comes to theme parks) Iger felt that a different approach was needed. On so many levels, the NextGen dog-and-pony show was exactly was he was looking for.
  • Moving forward with New Fantasyland - Iger sunk close to half-a-billion dollars into "fixing" WDW's most popular land at WDW's most popular park. All this has managed to do is steal attendance away from WDW's other theme parks, making a bad problem worse.
  • Pursuing Avatarland - The jury's still out on this one; Avatarland could be a success. But Avatarland was Iger's kneejerk reaction to having his head pounded into the wall by the Wizzarding World of Harry Potter. It may have sounded great in 2011 to Iger but, seriously, who really talks about Avatar in 2013?
Putting it all together, Iger has made a series of major blunders affecting WDW. Sure, there are some nice, smaller things coming but in recent years, there have been too many John Carter's and Lone Ranger's in Orlando.

Iger gets paid the big money to make the big decision and, when it comes to Orlando, he's choked.
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THIS!!!

LOVE IT! (sadly because while it were true I so wish it, like a lot of other things, weren't!)
 
rodmansju

rodmansju

Member
NoChesterHester said:
PM'ing a major project like Avatar is a full time... Like 60 hours a week job. add in Disney Springs...
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there is no way a company the size of disney does not have a small army of project managers and project coordinators. she is more like a program manager or higher, if you are considering a PMO structure.

now, if only i could be a WDW project manager but work outta NYC.....
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
nytimez said:
Thanks for the update, Spirit, and hope you find some comfort - somewhere, somehow - after the loss of your friend.

I hit the "like" button on your post, but my actual response is anger (at the company). This seems to confirm some of our worst fears about the project... the fears too many have been too quick to dismiss.
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The stuff I am quoting is coming directly from Disney. I did pick select parts, but I did because they appear to conflict dramatically with what TWDC is presenting to the public, media, officials.

Does it anger me? I am very raw with emotions now that have nothing to do with how TWDC operates. Frankly, every corporation lies today (which in no way makes it right, just something we've all been forced to accept). I am just royally tired of hearing it from a company I have invested so much of my time and money in.
 
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