disney fan 13
Well-Known Member
Good Bye Spirit thread, nice knowing ya, on to the next...
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Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
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e
I haven't seen Carsland in person yet unfortunately, but yes other than that it seems like much of the recent output from imagineering doesn't understand the difference between theming and decoration, or the difference between story and plot.
Edited to add: After getting caught up with this thread I see that WDW1974 already made this point as well, so sorry to be redundant. On to the new thread...
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Hey, I live in a cul de sac in Villa Park, the foothills of Orange County, and we had a real good wildfire scare here about five years ago that had me throwing pictures and random trinkets into the trunk at Midnight as the orange glow got closer and the air got smokier. I resemble that remark!
But the point is well taken. I appreciate your filling in the blanks for me on why Tony Baxter is being forced into retirement, even if he is 66 years old and looking it judging from the last time I saw him browsing at the Villa Park Best Buy on Tustin Avenue a few months ago.
Even though Cars Land is fabulous, Buena Vista Street is gorgeous, and Baxter had nothing to do with them.... I'm going to take your word for it and trust that this doesn't bode well for WDI as a whole. I have always enjoyed following Disney corporate politics since I started hanging out on the alt.disney.disneyland usenet forum back around 1996. I will remember your insight on this and watch closely what happens at WDI in the next 12 to 18 months.
Longhairbear
Well-Known Member
I used to read the usenet too, and spar with Al Lutz.Hey, I live in a cul de sac in Villa Park, the foothills of Orange County, and we had a real good wildfire scare here about five years ago that had me throwing pictures and random trinkets into the trunk at Midnight as the orange glow got closer and the air got smokier. I resemble that remark!
But the point is well taken. I appreciate your filling in the blanks for me on why Tony Baxter is being forced into retirement, even if he is 66 years old and looking it judging from the last time I saw him browsing at the Villa Park Best Buy on Tustin Avenue a few months ago.
Even though Cars Land is fabulous, Buena Vista Street is gorgeous, and Baxter had nothing to do with them.... I'm going to take your word for it and trust that this doesn't bode well for WDI as a whole. I have always enjoyed following Disney corporate politics since I started hanging out on the alt.disney.disneyland usenet forum back around 1996. I will remember your insight on this and watch closely what happens at WDI in the next 12 to 18 months.
Those wildfires are scary, we got evacuated 3 times in Agoura Hills, we don't live there anymore.
We are off to DLR for a few nights in a villa at the GC. Dinner at Carthay Circle, drinks at Trader Sam's, and life will be good.
Longhairbear
Well-Known Member
Disney By Mark is reporting 2 new hotels approved across the street from DLR, next to the Jolly Roger. One has kitchenettes. I told Disney they needed to build more DVC out here!
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
Where would they fit? And do you pay extra for the view of the unthemed backside of Carsland and the RSR show building?
Edit: Went to Disney by Mark and saw that they were not Disney hotels. Two hotels approved by Anaheim; I thought you meant two hotels approved by Disney. Yes, Disney really should move forward with whatever the next phase of the Resort is.
msteel
Well-Known Member
My take on his comment was that he actually understands the founding documents and rather than offering commentaty on them, he was offering commentary on how they are (no longer) being applied today.
But maybe someone has said this already (how can I really be a hundred PAGES behind on this thread!?).
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Apparently you are one of those freaks of nature that requires a certain amount of sleep!
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
My comment was based not on the single post alone. There are few others, mostly in relation to the Reedy Creek Improvememt District, full of nonsense.
msteel
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I haven't checked out his other posts. Perhaps I am actually reading him wrong.
Lee
Adventurer
So Blue Ocean. A hare-brained business scheme that I'm just now learning about, on account of I don't spend a lot of time on business theory. (For fear of having to decorate the house with posters of soaring eagles or jet fighters with some inspiring caption like "Teamwork" or "Excellence" or some such nonsense.)
Anyway...I don't like it.
We have been talking about it here for a while without actually using that terminology, and giving it a name doesn't make it any better.
Corporate Disney has made the decision to treat WDW as a real estate venture that just happens to incorporate theme parks as weenies to pull folks in, and hopefully get them hooked on "Magic". An addiction that, as we all know, you never really recover from...you just take it one day at a time.
As we've been saying for seemingly forever, Disney seems to have backed out of the attractions race. Allowing innovation to be replaced by profit maximization via marketing, discount schemes and high-tech systems aimed at keeping guests on property and electronically emptying their wallets. I am not a fan.
I want the old Disney back. One that aimed higher, that wanted to offer people the most amazing experiences available anywhere, and that actually strived to do everything better than anyone else. They don't do that now. Now we are in an era of "good enough." Are guests still packing the parks? Then they feel they are doing good enough. Are hotels mostly full? Good enough. Are they still the most-visited parks? Yeah? Good enough.
Uh-oh...are guests starting to cast longing glances at amazing things going on up I-4 a ways? No problem. Let's electronically tie them to our property and make it a pain in the to leave. That'll keep them here. Good enough.
And for those of us who say it isn't good enough...we're left on the margins. Tilting at windmills. Considered by many in the company as malcontents who they are better off without. They really don't care if we stop coming, since there is a seemingly endless supply of "first timers" and "foamers" lining up to pay for free dining and to ride a $100 C-ticket past platic fish on sticks. Saddens me to no end.
But, I do feel that all is not lost. There is always hope that some new blood can be infused into the system. That someone who realizes and understands that the old ways were the better ways. That guest satisfaction can't be reflected in spreadsheets, and magic can't be seen in powerpoints. That loyalty is earned, not gained through entrapment. That theme parks are living, breathing creature that must evolve and be kept fresh lest they wither and die.
Those people are out there. And they don't give a damn about any ridiculous business theory like BOS, and they sure as hell don't want any soaring eagles on their wall. I'm waiting for those people. Sadly, I fear the ones that are already in the company are in danger of being escorted out of the building, being told they are no longer needed.
End of babbling, barely coherent, Sunday morning rant.
Anyway...I don't like it.
We have been talking about it here for a while without actually using that terminology, and giving it a name doesn't make it any better.
Corporate Disney has made the decision to treat WDW as a real estate venture that just happens to incorporate theme parks as weenies to pull folks in, and hopefully get them hooked on "Magic". An addiction that, as we all know, you never really recover from...you just take it one day at a time.
As we've been saying for seemingly forever, Disney seems to have backed out of the attractions race. Allowing innovation to be replaced by profit maximization via marketing, discount schemes and high-tech systems aimed at keeping guests on property and electronically emptying their wallets. I am not a fan.
I want the old Disney back. One that aimed higher, that wanted to offer people the most amazing experiences available anywhere, and that actually strived to do everything better than anyone else. They don't do that now. Now we are in an era of "good enough." Are guests still packing the parks? Then they feel they are doing good enough. Are hotels mostly full? Good enough. Are they still the most-visited parks? Yeah? Good enough.
Uh-oh...are guests starting to cast longing glances at amazing things going on up I-4 a ways? No problem. Let's electronically tie them to our property and make it a pain in the to leave. That'll keep them here. Good enough.
And for those of us who say it isn't good enough...we're left on the margins. Tilting at windmills. Considered by many in the company as malcontents who they are better off without. They really don't care if we stop coming, since there is a seemingly endless supply of "first timers" and "foamers" lining up to pay for free dining and to ride a $100 C-ticket past platic fish on sticks. Saddens me to no end.
But, I do feel that all is not lost. There is always hope that some new blood can be infused into the system. That someone who realizes and understands that the old ways were the better ways. That guest satisfaction can't be reflected in spreadsheets, and magic can't be seen in powerpoints. That loyalty is earned, not gained through entrapment. That theme parks are living, breathing creature that must evolve and be kept fresh lest they wither and die.
Those people are out there. And they don't give a damn about any ridiculous business theory like BOS, and they sure as hell don't want any soaring eagles on their wall. I'm waiting for those people. Sadly, I fear the ones that are already in the company are in danger of being escorted out of the building, being told they are no longer needed.
End of babbling, barely coherent, Sunday morning rant.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Yes - I fear we are going to hear the middle of the pack throwing out 'Blue Ocean' or 'BOS' now for the next 4 months in every 4th post.. ugh
I just hope people see it doesn't have to be 'one or the other' - but there is a middle ground. Look at Indiana Jones... they didn't say 'POTC is the pinnacle.. know what we need.. pirates but BIGGER!!' - they took technology and used it to innovate and create a new type of attraction experience, while still staying true to the classic story telling/staging elements Disney was known for.
Disney has to keep innovating outside of E-Tickets. You can't just keep adding attractions forever - space, increased operating cost, and spend vs revenue gain all limit how frequently you can expand. And we know how much Disney fans hate seeing loved attractions replaced.. so its a tough balancing act. They need all the 'connecting tissue' too. Services like KTTW, transportation, online booking, etc. All things that Disney must continue to innovate and improve as well.
The issue is when they abandon any of those areas.. or shift so far a traditional category gets pushed aside for another. Like... have parades suffered at the expense of the castle lighting and projection shows? People love the latter, but they hate that parades have been virtually abandoned.
Disney does need to keep fresh, and push into new concepts - but they must find the balance to not abandon their core that the guests have come to expect from Disney.
It's hard to keep doing more when very little you do takes in direct revenue, yet still costs millions. And if you have a population that is 'gonna come anyway'.. its even harder to justify.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I kinda went a little overboard myself. At the time, I wanted to make some fun out of it, but since I was the one who made Mr.Spirit make a new thread so the fault is mine not yours.
I'm sorry but there are 257 pages of posts and about a dozen posts related to a small thread drift on New Yorkers having bad attitudes. There were many, many thread drifts before this lasting much longer. You don't need to apologize for having a discussion on a "discussion board". Maybe we need a set of rules posted telling us what is and is not acceptable to talk about.
OFTeric
Well-Known Member
Indiana Jones opened in 1995....that is 18 years ago. Take that in 18 years. In today's climate that is generations upon generations of MBAs.
This plan to completely develop wdw was part of the large master plan when wdw bought that big ranch down in poinciana so that they could get around the conservation rules.
The Western Beltway development including flamingo crossing didn't go the way it was planned all those years ago, now we are left with a failed development plan that is being tweaked for a grander development plan. I am sure there are people who know more than me about this, but for people who want to affordably live in the magic keep your eyes on the west.
yoyoflamingo
Well-Known Member
Those people are out there. And they don't give a damn about any ridiculous business theory like BOS, and they sure as hell don't want any soaring eagles on their wall. I'm waiting for those people. Sadly, I fear the ones that are already in the company are in danger of being escorted out of the building, being told they are no longer needed.
End of babbling, barely coherent, Sunday morning rant.
I think this is what all of us hope for, and still are keeping our fingers crossed for....though it seems each piece of news that comes out makes it harder and harder to believe, but there have to be people in the company who see competing with Universal is what the guests want: new attractions that astound and amaze. Is it going to take even more guests leaving to Uni and IOA before they see that? BOS sounds more like BS to me.
And though you may think it's barely coherent, it expresses my, and I bet many others, views on here wonderfully.
rle4lunch
Well-Known Member
So Blue Ocean. A hare-brained business scheme that I'm just now learning about, on account of I don't spend a lot of time on business theory. (For fear of having to decorate the house with posters of soaring eagles or jet fighters with some inspiring caption like "Teamwork" or "Excellence" or some such nonsense.)
Anyway...I don't like it.
We have been talking about it here for a while without actually using that terminology, and giving it a name doesn't make it any better.
Corporate Disney has made the decision to treat WDW as a real estate venture that just happens to incorporate theme parks as weenies to pull folks in, and hopefully get them hooked on "Magic". An addiction that, as we all know, you never really recover from...you just take it one day at a time.
As we've been saying for seemingly forever, Disney seems to have backed out of the attractions race. Allowing innovation to be replaced by profit maximization via marketing, discount schemes and high-tech systems aimed at keeping guests on property and electronically emptying their wallets. I am not a fan.
I want the old Disney back. One that aimed higher, that wanted to offer people the most amazing experiences available anywhere, and that actually strived to do everything better than anyone else. They don't do that now. Now we are in an era of "good enough." Are guests still packing the parks? Then they feel they are doing good enough. Are hotels mostly full? Good enough. Are they still the most-visited parks? Yeah? Good enough.
Uh-oh...are guests starting to cast longing glances at amazing things going on up I-4 a ways? No problem. Let's electronically tie them to our property and make it a pain in the to leave. That'll keep them here. Good enough.
And for those of us who say it isn't good enough...we're left on the margins. Tilting at windmills. Considered by many in the company as malcontents who they are better off without. They really don't care if we stop coming, since there is a seemingly endless supply of "first timers" and "foamers" lining up to pay for free dining and to ride a $100 C-ticket past platic fish on sticks. Saddens me to no end.
But, I do feel that all is not lost. There is always hope that some new blood can be infused into the system. That someone who realizes and understands that the old ways were the better ways. That guest satisfaction can't be reflected in spreadsheets, and magic can't be seen in powerpoints. That loyalty is earned, not gained through entrapment. That theme parks are living, breathing creature that must evolve and be kept fresh lest they wither and die.
Those people are out there. And they don't give a damn about any ridiculous business theory like BOS, and they sure as hell don't want any soaring eagles on their wall. I'm waiting for those people. Sadly, I fear the ones that are already in the company are in danger of being escorted out of the building, being told they are no longer needed.
End of babbling, barely coherent, Sunday morning rant.
As a person who has Master's Degrees in Business and in Public Admin, I cringe at the "motivational" posters you speak of. Sadly, the education system seems to teach 'groupthink' as the best way to appproach projects to maximize profits. They think that type of process works better at producing 'out of the box' ideas. I say NAY! Let the free thinkers go forth and have their say on a dream of a better Disney and stop reading 6-12 month baseline metric goals, thinking that adding a Starbucks will increase crossoint sales in September. gah
alphac2005
Well-Known Member
I think that groupthink is the most vomit inducing term and philosophy that I've seen in business and it's blatantly obvious that the Walt Disney Company has been engaged in it for far too long and that isn't changing anytime soon unfortunately. Strip independent minded individuals and differing opinions while creating an atmosphere of living in a bubble. Yup, that's what we've got in Orlando and the company overall today.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
I had much the same reaction to BOS, the latest management fad, when it first started making the rounds.
Every few years a new management fad comes along. Stealing from the June 16, 1995 Dilbert:
Pointy-haired boss: “I’ve decided to make some changes to our corporate culture.”
Wally: “Let me guess what that means.”
Wally: “We’ll work longer hours without extra pay …”
Wally: “Your management style will remain exactly the same because lord knows there’s no need for you to change.”
Dilbert: “We’ll start calling ourselves a ‘team’ so it doesn’t seem like work!”
Alice: “I predict there will be vapid slogans printed on notepads and maybe some useless meetings.”
Dilbert: “She’s psychic.”
Dilbert: “Is it just me or is the culture already changing?”
Wally: “I feel it! We’re changing!”
Wally: “What’s next on the fad menu?”
Pointy-haired boss: “I wonder if it’s too late to rule by fear.”
After reading last week’s letter to Rep. Markey, does anyone doubt this is the current corporate culture under the Iger regime?
Every time one comes along, it's treated as a new religion, embraced by the same zealots who were proponents of the previous management fad. Give it 10 years and BOS will be viewed as woefully antiqued thinking.
In the end, there is no substitute for innovation and inspirational leadership. It seems current Disney management desperately lacks both.