Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

NormC

Well-Known Member
If this program gave them exactly the same information as KTTW cards, then there would be no point in spending 1.5+ billion dollars on it unless Disney has the stupidest executives on the planet (which is actually a distinct possibility, but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt). There is absolutely no point in spending that kind of money if you can get the same information from an existing program which means they see a huge profit in this.
You are correct. I never said that was all they were doing. There is a lot more to this than just "tracking". Of course Disney is doing this to make money at our expense. No argument there. Hopefully there will be benefits for us as well though. It is not all gloom and doom. There is no nefarious plot afoot like some would have you believe. Bottom line is they will profit from the data collected and hopefully use it to improve our experience.
 

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
It's been noted before that if NextGen were to go Disney's way without issue, Sponsors would be lining up around the block. One could argue that doing that helped Rasulo and Franklin sell this to the BoD. Give sponsors a real reason to sponsor attractions, Disney dosen't pay for most of the development, construction, and maintenance costs because those sponsors are willing to pay for that data through attractions.

My theory: If Super Sugar Junk cereal sponsored Small World, they wouldn't be just offered a 'ride count', they would be given the NAMES and PROFILES of those who rode it. (Que the Monty Python 'Spam' sketch). And all sponsors would be considered 'partners' (or whatever term they used) on the terms of service. No need to sell your data, they already have in advance...

Which is why I suspect if the FP+ aspect bombs, they will try to keep the money making RFID aspects going through the Mouse Arrest bands and RFID sensors everywhere (assuming, of course, no upcoming congressional hearings makes the whole thing so toxic that it gets shelved).
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Is that not what the have spent on the NextGen project? Granted, I am sure a lot of the cost is for development and infrastructure, but they spent what they spent.

For a lot of things.. many beyond the datamining/personalization aspects. It's funny how in one thread FP+ cost 1.5 billion... MagicBands cost 1.5 billion.. wifi costs a billion.. and the list goes on. It's whatever someone is criticizing.. it cost 1.5 billion.

If fans did the accounting I'm sure NextGen has consumed 10+ billion already..
 

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
For a lot of things.. many beyond the datamining/personalization aspects. It's funny how in one thread FP+ cost 1.5 billion... MagicBands cost 1.5 billion.. wifi costs a billion.. and the list goes on. It's whatever someone is criticizing.. it cost 1.5 billion.

If fans did the accounting I'm sure NextGen has consumed 10+ billion already..

I wonder if the 'super sparkly' interactive queues they are installing everywhere are part of the budget, since, we need to find something for them to do while we artificially make their lines longer.
 

crispy

Well-Known Member
You are correct. I never said that was all they were doing. There is a lot more to this than just "tracking". Of course Disney is doing this to make money at our expense. No argument there. Hopefully there will be benefits for us as well though. It is not all gloom and doom. There is no nefarious plot afoot like some would have you believe. Bottom line is they will profit from the data collected and hopefully use it to improve our experience.

I don't think it is a evil plot to steal my soul and my personal information, but I do think they are crossing a line. I, as a general rule, don't want to be required to wear a tracking device as part of my vacation. I, mean, honestly, they frickin' want me to wear a tracking device as part of my vacation!! Am I taking crazy pills (don't answer that!) or is that just not okay?

To add insult to injury, I, as a consumer, am getting nothing out of NextGen except a headache and FP+ to Stitch's Great Escape. Yippee, I guess. I don't see what's in this for me, and yes, when I am planning to spend money on my vacation, it's all about me.

It's funny because Kroger and their Kroger Plus card keeps being mentioned (which makes me question why all these tracking things have a + on the end, but I digress). I personally refuse to shop at Kroger for this very reason unless I am left with no choice (as in, I'm visiting a town that has no other grocery store). Publix is nicer (and has a better coupon policy) and Aldi is cheaper so I have no reason to go to Kroger and jump through hoops to get a sale item. If I am not mistaken, Publix has made a point that their sale items are really sale items with no card needed. Anyway, at what point are people going to to say, "Why jump through hoops to go to Disney? Universal is nicer and Busch Gardens is cheaper."? At what point is all this "MAGIC" going to be such a big headache that people start spending their vacation dollars elsewhere?
 

crispy

Well-Known Member
For a lot of things.. many beyond the datamining/personalization aspects. It's funny how in one thread FP+ cost 1.5 billion... MagicBands cost 1.5 billion.. wifi costs a billion.. and the list goes on. It's whatever someone is criticizing.. it cost 1.5 billion.

If fans did the accounting I'm sure NextGen has consumed 10+ billion already..

Now who's overexaggerating? I am pretty sure that all of those things have been lumped into NextGen as a whole (which, incidentally, I hear cost about 1.5 billion dollars :p).
 

dhall

Well-Known Member
How much of the NextGen budget do you propose is spent on the personal profiling aspects?

I'll take a few swings at this:

I think the biggest single area of expense for this whole thing is the network infrastructure: they're essentially doing a municipal wireless system over a fairly large geographic area. Figure on a normal day, there will be upwards of 100,000 devices on the various networks. By itself, this could easily be more than half the budget and is also probably where most of the overrun comes from. This is obviously Cisco's part of the deal. (Incidentally, this is also, IMO, the most necessary part of the whole thing -- Disney knows that the rising generation is attached to their digital umbilicals and that free internet/wi-fi access is already a cost-of-doing-business thing in the hospitality & large scale retail industries. That trend is not going to reverse any time soon -- in 10 or 20 years, this may be the equivalent of indoor plumbing)

The software I know a lot more about (stating that I know some of this for a direct fact is getting a little too close to a line I shouldn't cross). There are a number of layers in the software stack here that are customizable off-the-shelf products. Most of those aren't simple installs: a person or team of people from the software vendor take care of the installation, configuration, & testing over a period of weeks or months. What Accenture's doing is a combination of installing & configuring their own products along with coordinating the installation & configuration with the other vendors involved and with any software consultants an/or in-house developers writing the integration pieces necessary to tie in all of the old systems. Disney has had much of the necessary software in place for years: one thing we don't know is how much of that existing software is being used for this and how much is new installations. All told, though, this is probably in the $300-500M range (although it could be higher).

I don't think the FastPass/MyMagic parts are really all that big a part of the budget. That part is the most proprietary to Disney and the most likely to be done in-house: if anything, they may expand a development team or two. Tracking FP's issued through MyMagic is really no harder than tracking ADR's, and writing the front end planning pieces is no worse than any other reservation web service. This is stuff they've been doing for years. Even the part that checks fast pass return times is old hat if you assume that KimPossible was a prototype. There's been an expense associated with the development of the bracelets and the stage dressing for the RFID readers, but all this adds up to the single digit millions (maybe a little more, but I'd be suprised if it's anything like $50-100M)

There will be some staffing up and training: folks trained to use the various applications and a team brought in (or expanded, more likely) of statisticians to turn the raw data into useful information. Lots of time spent by lots of people on the marketing side figuring out all the messaging, but again, that's largely in house.

With all that -- the money spent on directly on personal profiling is in the new/upgraded software, development of the band, and installation of the readers. I'm going to speculate that it's really only about a third of the current expense (and shrinking as part of the total)
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Correct.

It does need to be addressed though, don't you think?

I think it does - but I'm not Disney :) There are certainly ways they can ensure availability day of, or even throughout the day. The choice is theirs.

I think a lot of it will be reflected in how they position this.. is it a perk? Is it 'the new way'? etc. the positioning on all of this hasn't surfaced either yet. So its hard to speculate on Disney's set priorities.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Just posted this in the other Ed Markey thread, but it seems to apply to the conversation here as well.

Al Lutz has an interesting comment about what's happening in Burbank and Orlando as of yesterday, from the front page of Miceage.com today....

Editor's Note: January 25, 2013: MyMagic Nonplussed? The blunt questions asked of Bob Iger about the NextGen program by Massachusetts Congressman Ed Markey rolled through Disney's Burbank and Orlando offices like a tsunami on Thursday. The issue of data-mining children's experiences in Disney's parks by using RFID chips to track their behavior is now a hot topic on national talk radio thanks to alarmed parents; and could very well be why our last podcast where we discuss the issue has been breaking records. The entire NextGen/MyMagic initiative is under fire before it even hits the Orlando parks, and the suits are in full crisis mode now. Burbank should have heeded their front line park operators on this one, as they foresaw dozens of problems with NextGen. Congressman Markey's statement and questions to Iger are found at this link.
 

NormC

Well-Known Member
Anyway, at what point are people going to to say, "Why jump through hoops to go to Disney? Universal is nicer and Busch Gardens is cheaper."? At what point is all this "MAGIC" going to be such a big headache that people start spending their vacation dollars elsewhere?

Exactly the kind of data they will soon be collecting I suspect.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
I think it does - but I'm not Disney :) There are certainly ways they can ensure availability day of, or even throughout the day. The choice is theirs.

I think a lot of it will be reflected in how they position this.. is it a perk? Is it 'the new way'? etc. the positioning on all of this hasn't surfaced either yet. So its hard to speculate on Disney's set priorities.

We have an advanced reservation system already in place at WDW though, and we know they don't save tables for day of at the most popular restaurants. So the fear that they will do the same thing for the most popular rides is, I think, grounded in reality.

You are right in that we just don't know how they will handle it, so based on what we DO know, I fear the worst.
 

awoogala

Well-Known Member
I don't think Disney intends to sell their data. That stuff will be a proprietary goldmine. Sharing information internally in a company like Disney is easy to do depending on how they word the releases. The money from the data mining is to come from what they find out about the customers. I have never thought they were interested in selling the information.

even if they don't sell it, Disney is so huge, giving it to themselves is a gift. abc, disney channel, movies, games, video games, computer websites, espn.. the list goes on and on... Disney is not just Disney anymore. Something like 150 companies come under the "disney" label.
 

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