Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[GrumpyFan]

Here's my problem with that, and its really my biggest issue with the whole system...
Typically, I don't plan my trips to WDW very far in advance. Usually inside of a month. If FP is phased out (which I don't believe has been stated officially), what is to prevent the uber-planners from booking all the FP+ before I even book my trip?
Say I decide to go down next week....what is he likelihood I'm gonna be stuck in Standby city for my whole trip, even if I wear the band and allow myself to be mined?

I think many share your concerns, but I also think they are keeping this in mind while building the new system(s).

I'm pretty sure they know that not everybody will want to plan out their trip in this way, and so far ahead. They understand that some will buy their tickets and begin planning their trip for a year from now, and that some will buy tickets for next month, next week, or even tomorrow and choose to do very little planning. But, I promise you, they know this already (or they should), and will make provisions for it in the new system. How do I know this? Well, in truth, I don't really, but based on deductive reasoning (plus Disney's history with how they treat guests), and reading of the patents they've filed, I know one of their primary objectives in this is to improve the guest experience and reduce the amount of time they have to wait in lines. So, in order to meet that, they must have a full understanding (input variables) of when guests plan their trips, or even IF they choose to plan, and then figure all of that into the formula for availability and scheduling (output). If they don't do it on the first round (v1/beta), they (and smart guests) will quickly learn that the system can be gamed and advanced FP+s can be obtained, leaving none for the day, thus leading to a LOT of unhappy guests left standing in long lines, which more or less negates the whole purpose of the system. Make sense? Or am I being too rational and maybe maybe a bit naive?

BTW: If you can't tell, I'm a software developer...

 

[Monty]

Could this level of tracking not eventually lead to issues with foreigners? Something similar of several European Nations wanting to ban body scanners, where the use of them on the foreigners here would violate certain treaties if banned there.

I think this is in the same realm as the 4th Amendment straw-man that's been floated. Treaties are between Governments and relate for the most part to Government activities. I can't see a European Government caring about what Disney does outside their country unless it put their citizens at risk. Despite the tin-foil hatters' assertions to the contrary, gathering and maintaining information on spending habits and attraction attendance isn't going to put anyone at risk.

 

[thehowiet]

If the data collected is stored securely, used to study trends and enhance the experience for guests, I see absolutely no issue with the whole program.

If I believed that was truly the case then I may be able to see your point, but I highly doubt Disney's main goal here is to use the data collected to enhance the guest experience. If their main goal was to enhance the guest experience they would add more innovative attractions and experiences, add unique entertainment, and improve maintenance. These are the things Disney used to do to enhance the guest experience by providing a product that you couldn't get anywhere else. Instead, we've seen them consistently cut entertainment, slash maintenance budgets, and not build attractions in parks that desperately need them while continuing to raise their prices and lower quality. This is all about increasing revenue company-wide under the guise of "enhancing the guest experience." Call me a cynic, but this has nothing to do with the guest experience in my opinion and everything to do with Disney knowing everything about you to make more money. Any enhancement to the guest experience from this (if there is any...) is just an afterthought.

Instead of using their core competencies (high quality entertainment, unique experiences, etc.) as their weapon in the theme park wars, they've created this. In their eyes it's a lot less risky and more profitable. It gives them absolute control over everyone's vacation, and it will allow them to get as much information about you as they can without asking.

If they really wanted to collect data and use it to enhance the guest experience they could do honest surveys to find out what guests like/don't like. The problem is, that isn't the information they're after. The information they will be able to obtain from this most likely wouldn't come from surveys because most guests would be less inclined to voluntarily give up that type of information, in my opinion. This systems allows them to collect the data that you likely wouldn't share without you even knowing it.

 

[alphac2005]

Yes, I already retracted that statement shortly after I made it.

No big deal. The thread was so crazy long since I last logged on, I commented before I got through to it among other things.

 

[alphac2005]

If I believed that was truly the case then I may be able to see your point, but I highly doubt Disney's main goal here is to use the data collected to enhance the guest experience. If their main goal was to enhance the guest experience they would add more innovative attractions and experiences, add unique entertainment, and improve maintenance. These are the things Disney used to do to enhance the guest experience by providing a product that you couldn't get anywhere else. Instead, we've seen them consistently cut entertainment, slash maintenance budgets, and not build attractions in parks that desperately need them while continuing to raise their prices and lower quality. This is all about increasing revenue company-wide under the guise of "enhancing the guest experience." Call me a cynic, but this has nothing to do with the guest experience in my opinion and everything to do with Disney knowing everything about you to make more money. Any enhancement to the guest experience from this (if there is any...) is just an afterthought.

Instead of using their core competencies (high quality entertainment, unique experiences, etc.) as their weapon in the theme park wars, they've created this. In their eyes it's a lot less risky and more profitable. It gives them absolute control over everyone's vacation, and it will allow them to get as much information about you as they can without asking.

If they really wanted to collect data and use it to enhance the guest experience they could do honest surveys to find out what guests like/don't like. The problem is, that isn't the information they're after. The information they will be able to obtain from this most likely wouldn't come from surveys because most guests would be less inclined to voluntarily give up that type of information, in my opinion. This systems allows them to collect the data that you likely wouldn't share without you even knowing it.

Agreed. It's data for a variety of reasons, first and foremost is profit margin. They want to be able to tap into every little emotion and sway you to spend more money, book a vacation, do this and that. It's Sally's birthday and we know that she loved meeting Ariel last time at the Magic Kingdom, so don't you want to give her that wonderful moment again? Things like that. The days of major corporations doing anything in order to make things better or done with the consumer are long gone.

Although we'll see how this shakes out, I'd assume that there is going to be a lot of the notion of supersizing here for well off customers. They've already started some time ago to a lesser extent with printing coupons on receipts to save X amount in stores until a certain time from your just completed transaction. I'd assume promotions where we know that you like dining at X spot, why don't you try Y spot out along with a discount. So they get you to spend higher, or spend on things with higher margins for them while making it seem as though you're the one pulling one over on them.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Spin Spin Spin. People jump at grocery loyalty cards to get discounts on gas now. All you have to do is show they are getting something for using the technology and the sheeple will dive in head first. The biometric had no advantage to the guest (unless you were paranoid about handstamp ink). These bands can been spun so much they can make a whole coat of sugary goodness around it.

First, I know this is 4 pages behind the current... I'm trying to catch up

Rasvar, what most people don't get (or, choose to play ignorant towards) is that the grocery stores offering gas rewards in the form of discounts do so by raising the 'normal' price at the grocery store. That carton of strawberries costs $3 at four other grocery locations in my area, but at the only one offering gas savings, it costs $4.

I don't see much of a difference in what Disney is doing.

Also, I really don't think Disney will SELL the information collected- but rather, distribute, or 'share' with their sponsors. Who will, in return, pay more for sponsoring rights and get a 'free' service in return. It has potential of attracting a lot of new sponsors, who will be getting a 'freebie' that they didn't before, in the form of what your 8 year twins like to eat, watch, and play while on their magical vacation.

Scary thought, really: My mom always taught me to never talk to strangers- even if they know my name. Do kids know better nowadays? ...What if that stranger is the cashier? Or Cinderella?

@WDW1974 , do I have this right?

Ok, back to reading, sorry if this was already posted and I just didn't catch up yet!

 

[RSoxNo1]

Ok, finally caught up in this thread and wanted to comment on the comparison of MyMagic+ to the dining plan brought up by @RSoxNo1. We are planning an anniversary trip in June (let's just say we won't be collecting restaurant pagers to queue up for Dueling Dumbos) and out of curiosity I did a comparison of the dining plan to paying out of pocket for the restaurants we will be visiting (5 TSR total, one of which is signature). I looked at the menus and made a best guess on what me and my wife would order at each table service restaurant (one meal, one dessert, one non-alcoholic beverage per person per meal) and did the same with a logical selection of CSR's to get an exact comparison of the cost per day. I didn't choose our menu items based on what was cheapest or most expensive, just what we would probably choose, to see what value the DDP would be for us. I did not however, factor in any snacks seeing as how when we visit if I have a dessert at lunch and a dessert at dinner (truly the American way!) I have little desire or physical space for a middle of the day snack. The TSR's used in this study were Tokyo Dining dinner, Sanaa lunch, Liberty Tree Tavern lunch, LeCellier dinner, and Be Our Guest dinner.

The result? For the two of us it would be $100+ cheaper to pay out of pocket for all 10 meals than to use the dining plan. Now like I said, the DDP includes snacks which I did not. So it is fair to say, that we would have to consume $100 worth of snacks in 5 days between 2 (slim) people in addition to already having 2 desserts a day in order to break even, much less save the coveted 20% as advertised. Not to mention that without the dining plan, we have the flexibility to spend on exactly what we want (appetizer, share a dessert rather than ordering 2, etc.)

To me, this mirrors the bundling philosophy associated with MM+ that puts false value on extra offerings that you don't need. Snacks are cheap for Disney, so by automatically including them in your plan, they instantly make $$$. A Stitch's Great Escape fastpass is no different. While you may get 3 FP's per day, at least one of them is going to be crappy and (previously) unnecessary. So you are getting less experience for your $, but marketed as more. Instead of customizing exactly what you want, you are given specific parameters in which to choose from that benefit Disney rather than the consumer.

Did you factor in what the costs would be with Tables in Wonderland as well? I will say that I learned the hard way ($235 later)this trip that Teppan Edo isn't part of TiW, not sure on Tokyo Dining.

 

[rael ramone]

Personally if 'COPPA-gate' makes it's way to an official congressional inquiry than Iger & Co. have lost regardless of outcome after that...

Being supoenaed to testify before an elected panel of officials from various backgrounds, agendas, etc UNDER OATH about online child protection issues when you are a company that is primary known as a purveyor of 'family entertainment' is not good. The questions will vary, perhaps some won't even have to do with the COPPA aspects of it (just the unfriendly to consumer aspects of it that their constituents want them to ask). And one of them may ask the one they dread hearing the most: "Is it possible for the system to triangulate that a minor is alone in their hotel room, who has access to that info, and what safety encriptions are in place to make sure nobody hacks that info?". But there will be plenty of unMAGICal COPPA questions that they will have to answer.

And the 5th amendment only protects them from saying anything that incriminates themselves, not for saying anything that harms the BRAND. And every answer of theres is part of the PUBLIC RECORD. News & late night comedy (imagine a South Park episode about it) will have a field day with it. Certainly the competition will have ammo (and it can't possibly be libelous if it is based on what they said under oath before Congress).

And lets say the 'Disney executive team' doesn't testify with one united voice.... that brings up 'lying to congress' issues... in that case perhaps some of the 'team' could be sweating out if they will be trying to avoid a brief stay in that time share otherwise known as 'Club Pen'.

And all of the above doesn't account for the fact that they are testifying before a legislative body. If you find a loophole in a law a judge or jury can't rewrite the law to fix it. Congress can. Then again, they may not even need to if they find they broke the law as it is currently written.

This whole thing may become so toxic that the BoD may want to do some spring cleaning, and not on the terms of Iger and Co. They may want to wash their hands of anything that has a link to it...

Imagine the theme that WDW will advertise after that. Instead of 'Remember the Magic' or something like that we'll get 'Under New Management'.

ps .. if you own shares of DIS, it might be a good time to 'take profits' if it looks like Iger & Co end up paying an unvoluntary visit to DC. You'll be able to get back in at a much, much, lower price....

 

[asianway]

Personally if 'COPPA-gate' makes it's way to an official congressional inquiry than Iger & Co. have lost regardless of outcome after that...

Being supoenaed to testify before an elected panel of officials from various backgrounds, agendas, etc UNDER OATH about online child protection issues when you are a company that is primary known as a purveyor of 'family entertainment' is not good. The questions will vary, perhaps some won't even have to do with the COPPA aspects of it (just the unfriendly to consumer aspects of it that their constituents want them to ask). And one of them may ask the one they dread hearing the most: "Is it possible for the system to triangulate that a minor is alone in their hotel room, who has access to that info, and what safety encriptions are in place to make sure nobody hacks that info?". But there will be plenty of unMAGICal COPPA questions that they will have to answer.

And the 5th amendment only protects them from saying anything that incriminates themselves, not for saying anything that harms the BRAND. And every answer of theres is part of the PUBLIC RECORD. News & late night comedy (imagine a South Park episode about it) will have a field day with it. Certainly the competition will have ammo (and it can't possibly be libelous if it is based on what they said under oath before Congress).

And lets say the 'Disney executive team' doesn't testify with one united voice.... that brings up 'lying to congress' issues... in that case perhaps some of the 'team' could be sweating out if they will be trying to avoid a brief stay in that time share otherwise known as 'Club Pen'.

And all of the above doesn't account for the fact that they are testifying before a legislative body. If you find a loophole in a law a judge or jury can't rewrite the law to fix it. Congress can. Then again, they may not even need to if they find they broke the law as it is currently written.

This whole thing may become so toxic that the BoD may want to do some spring cleaning, and not on the terms of Iger and Co. They may want to wash their hands of anything that has a link to it...

Imagine the theme that WDW will advertise after that. Instead of 'Remember the Magic' or something like that we'll get 'Under New Management'.

ps .. if you own shares of DIS, it might be a good time to 'take profits' if it looks like Iger & Co end up paying an unvoluntary visit to DC. You'll be able to get back in at a much, much, lower price....

You never, ever, want to start a sentence with "Mr Chairman"

 

[nor'easter]

Simple.. Disney



Only if Disney wants you to...


But I find it hard to believe Disney would alienate so many customers.. so its my personal belief.. there will be plenty of 'day of..' reservations.

Are you kidding? Try to get decent dining reservations when their free dining plan is on. Almost impossible.

 

[alphac2005]

Personally if 'COPPA-gate' makes it's way to an official congressional inquiry than Iger & Co. have lost regardless of outcome after that...

Being supoenaed to testify before an elected panel of officials from various backgrounds, agendas, etc UNDER OATH about online child protection issues when you are a company that is primary known as a purveyor of 'family entertainment' is not good. The questions will vary, perhaps some won't even have to do with the COPPA aspects of it (just the unfriendly to consumer aspects of it that their constituents want them to ask). And one of them may ask the one they dread hearing the most: "Is it possible for the system to triangulate that a minor is alone in their hotel room, who has access to that info, and what safety encriptions are in place to make sure nobody hacks that info?". But there will be plenty of unMAGICal COPPA questions that they will have to answer.

And the 5th amendment only protects them from saying anything that incriminates themselves, not for saying anything that harms the BRAND. And every answer of theres is part of the PUBLIC RECORD. News & late night comedy (imagine a South Park episode about it) will have a field day with it. Certainly the competition will have ammo (and it can't possibly be libelous if it is based on what they said under oath before Congress).

And lets say the 'Disney executive team' doesn't testify with one united voice.... that brings up 'lying to congress' issues... in that case perhaps some of the 'team' could be sweating out if they will be trying to avoid a brief stay in that time share otherwise known as 'Club Pen'.

And all of the above doesn't account for the fact that they are testifying before a legislative body. If you find a loophole in a law a judge or jury can't rewrite the law to fix it. Congress can. Then again, they may not even need to if they find they broke the law as it is currently written.

This whole thing may become so toxic that the BoD may want to do some spring cleaning, and not on the terms of Iger and Co. They may want to wash their hands of anything that has a link to it...

Imagine the theme that WDW will advertise after that. Instead of 'Remember the Magic' or something like that we'll get 'Under New Management'.

ps .. if you own shares of DIS, it might be a good time to 'take profits' if it looks like Iger & Co end up paying an unvoluntary visit to DC. You'll be able to get back in at a much, much, lower price....

If this has legs and there is any sort of testifying before Congress, it's a nightmare for the company. Whatever is said is completely irrelevant and then fully dependent on the media narrative of the story and based upon how its been covered by the press so far, they'll be far from kind to the Mouse. I'd be very interested to see how ABC and all the ABC O/O stations would handle the coverage of the parent company. It'll be interesting to watch if anything becomes of the matter.

 

[scpergj]

Here's my problem with that, and its really my biggest issue with the whole system...
Typically, I don't plan my trips to WDW very far in advance. Usually inside of a month. If FP is phased out (which I don't believe has been stated officially), what is to prevent the uber-planners from booking all the FP+ before I even book my trip?
Say I decide to go down next week....what is he likelihood I'm gonna be stuck in Standby city for my whole trip, even if I wear the band and allow myself to be mined?

Having no kids, the COPPA issue is academic for me.
Disney knowing what I buy and ride is mildly annoying, but not a huge deal.
I'm concerned about the pre-planning aspect, which at this point appears to be a must unless you really enjoy standing in long lines.

We've had the same questions - and our youngest is 11, so soon enough COPPA won't be an issue for us either.

We sometimes plan our trips 6-8 months out (actually, if we do go back this fall I'm a bit behind on reservations and such), usually one or two in an AP year. The rest of our trips are scheduled as we can work them out between kids school (no way we can take our 15 year old out for even a day...he'd miss way too much class time and classwork), band, karate, dance, work, and family stuff (my entire family lived within 10 miles of us...); once we see a weekend we might be free, we take it - sometimes with only a weeks notice. Will we be able to still get passes? It's been impossible for us to get ADR's for any short trips where we want them...will rides now be the same? Are we finally looking at the short notice/no notice locals having to stand in line while the Honey BooBoo crowd gets to FP everything???

Ugh...looking forward to hitting Universal in a couple of months....

 

[nor'easter]

I think this is in the same realm as the 4th Amendment straw-man that's been floated. Treaties are between Governments and relate for the most part to Government activities. I can't see a European Government caring about what Disney does outside their country unless it put their citizens at risk. Despite the tin-foil hatters' assertions to the contrary, gathering and maintaining information on spending habits and attraction attendance isn't going to put anyone at risk.

Actually, it's more complicated than that. The European Union, for example, requires strict privacy standards, and requires any country with which Europeans do business to reciprocate, at least somewhat. If not, severe restrictions could be placed on Europeaans doing business with the US. The US gov't has guaranteed privacy "safe harbor" status to Europeans doing business in the US, which means American businesses must agree to protect privacy. If it's perceived that that is not happening, Disney could be held to account.

 

[asianway]

Actually, it's more complicated than that. The European Union, for example, requires strict privacy standards, and requires any country with which Europeans do business to reciprocate, at least somewhat. If not, severe restrictions could be placed on Europeaans doing business with the US. The US gov't has guaranteed privacy "safe harbor" status to Europeans doing business in the US, which means American businesses must agree to protect privacy. If it's perceived that that is not happening, Disney could be held to account.

And lest we forget a rather sizable WDPR business unit is registered in the UK

 

[Monty]

Actually, it's more complicated than that. The European Union, for example, requires strict privacy standards, and requires any country with which Europeans do business to reciprocate, at least somewhat. If not, severe restrictions could be placed on Europeaans doing business with the US. The US gov't has guaranteed privacy "safe harbor" status to Europeans doing business in the US, which means American businesses must agree to protect privacy. If it's perceived that that is not happening, Disney could be held to account.

I think it's a stretch to suggest that providing a product/service to Europeans equates to "doing business" with them. Doing business in my view is more about incorporating a company, striking trade agreements or manufacturing contracts, not taking your kid to WDW on vacation. And perception has nothing to do with it. If there are proven privacy issues then maybe, but perceived issues have no standing in law.

 

[ULPO46]

No, once again you have some information - but have it wrong. The girl in texas lost simply because she claimed the tag was against her religion, and when they offered her a tag without RFID, she still refused the ID, and the court said making everyone wear a uniform ID card was legal. Her case was always about trying to be a poster child.. and the court threw her daddy out on his .



That is another area full of 'half-truths' - Until we know how the system is rolled out.. we don't know what it means to opt-in or opt-out here.

Was not wrong. Money talks in America. Not religion because we live in an aethist nation were religion is against the law. Who ever is making this stud for Disney is giving them tons of money because disney doesn't do things for free. Unless Disney bought out the company.

 

[nor'easter]

I think it's a stretch to suggest that providing a product/service to Europeans equates to "doing business" with them. Doing business in my view is more about incorporating a company, striking trade agreements or manufacturing contracts, not taking your kid to WDW on vacation. And perception has nothing to do with it. If there are proven privacy issues then maybe, but perceived issues have no standing in law.

You can think that all you like, but you would be wrong. Protecting consumer privacy is what the safe harbor agreement is all about.

 

[stlphil]

I think many share your concerns, but I also think they are keeping this in mind while building the new system(s).

I'm pretty sure they know that not everybody will want to plan out their trip in this way, and so far ahead. They understand that some will buy their tickets and begin planning their trip for a year from now, and that some will buy tickets for next month, next week, or even tomorrow and choose to do very little planning. But, I promise you, they know this already (or they should), and will make provisions for it in the new system. How do I know this? Well, in truth, I don't really, but based on deductive reasoning (plus Disney's history with how they treat guests), and reading of the patents they've filed, I know one of their primary objectives in this is to improve the guest experience and reduce the amount of time they have to wait in lines. So, in order to meet that, they must have a full understanding (input variables) of when guests plan their trips, or even IF they choose to plan, and then figure all of that into the formula for availability and scheduling (output). If they don't do it on the first round (v1/beta), they (and smart guests) will quickly learn that the system can be gamed and advanced FP+s can be obtained, leaving none for the day, thus leading to a LOT of unhappy guests left standing in long lines, which more or less negates the whole purpose of the system. Make sense? Or am I being too rational and maybe maybe a bit naive?

BTW: If you can't tell, I'm a software developer...

There is a lot of assuming that Disney will magically tweak the system to make everyone happy. The reality is that total ride capacity for any given ride, and by extension FP availability, is way less than the number of people in the park. Someone (lots of someones) will be unhappy no matter what.

So who is Disney most likely to make unhappy? The Deluxe Resort gue$t$ who alone have sufficient numbers to use up most of the FP available for Toy Story Mania (and will want to get them in advance), or the day guests hoping to snare a FP day of?

 

[rael ramone]

You never, ever, want to start a sentence with "Mr Chairman"

Which is why Iger (or his legal team) is preparing the 'term paper of his life' in responding to Rep. Markeys written inquiry...

 

[flynnibus]

Are you kidding? Try to get decent dining reservations when their free dining plan is on. Almost impossible.

Different beasts. Just because ADRs are handled this way does not mean rides HAVE to be the same. Will it? Maybe.. does it have to be? No. Disney is the one that gets to decide..