Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[WDW1974]

Perhaps 70-80% of WDW's visitors have visited 3 times or less. For the most part, these folks are too inexperienced to notice quality issues, too enthralled in the moment to notice the imperfections. Experienced WDW visitors might notice these problems but NextGen isn't targeting them. NextGen is targeting WDW's larger "only-a-few-times-in-a-lifetime" guests, guests who are more likely to splurge because their WDW vacations are few and far between.

OK, finally found something @ParentsOf4 and I disagree on. Bound to happen.

I wouldn't say that 70-80% of WDW's visitors have been three times or less. This isn't 1993. WDW has been one of the world's top destinations for over four decades now.

And I'll tell you something, people do notice. I've done totally non-scientific Spirited surveys where I'll see something that is totally off and say to a friend or family member ''The problem is no one ever notices these things.'' ... and a good four times out of five, a stranger turns to me and starts a conversation about how indeed they notice ... and many of those guests are not huge fans or annual visitors like we are. Even the rubes I like to poke fun at aren't nearly as stupid (in most cases) as they may seem. People DO notice when the Splash Mountain finale is dead. Or when they're on Everest and they know they're supposed to see something and they don't etc/

And NEXT GEN is squarely aimed at every single guest on property. All of us. It doesn't work to just target newbies or infrequent visitors.

 

[WDW1974]

I do think that WDW has had a recent bad run with attraction creation and return on their investments. Everest didn't really catch on. Mission Space made too many people sick and got a bad reputation as a "killer". Star Tours 2.0 didn't really pack in the people because it was advertised poorly (intentionally I might add) and was just an upgrade to a 25 year old attraction. And New Fantasyland was not intended to be an attendance driver. It was specifically designed to take care of an existing capacity issue without compounding the problem. I believe that if they were to design it now, with their softening numbers, they would have reconsidered not including a big E.

As it stands now they don't have a big attendance driver under construction, their numbers are already softening, 3 of their parks are beyond stale, Potter has sucked up the merchandise money, Uni has a value resort coming and 3 HUGE E-Tickets under construction. And Disney is about to tweak the crap out of their loyal fan base by introducing "Micromanage or Die" park touring with reduced benefits at sky-rocketing prices.

I don't see this ending well.

It depends on what exec suites you happen to work in ... right?

 

[WDW1974]

Since you acknowledge "I see problems", I suggest that you don't silently accept them. Do whatever you think is most appropriate. Some contact Guest Relations. Others enjoy Disney but either DLR or DCL where quality is still top-notch. This isn't a systemic issue at Disney but at WDW in particular. Wouldn't you like to try a vacation at DLR or on DCL? Try one of these and your eyes will really be opened to what's happening at WDW.

I didn't see this before I responded (trying to work on something for business, check out shore excursions for my upcoming DCL voyage , do laundry and post is a deadly combo!) ... But I'd like those answers as well.

I have read far too many folks about the state of WDW and at the same time list 37 trips to WDW resorts in the last 12 years and they NEVER even stay off property or visit other O-Town parks and wouldn't dream of going to DLR. I do NOT like that mentality as my pal @raven24 will tell you or @Lee (but raven is better looking, although Lee likely has a better singing voice!)

As long as enough people passively accept the state of WDW, WDW will not improve.

That is another issue I have. For all the people who line up to complain/scam at City Hall or any Guest Relations window, there's probably twice as many with legit issues or concerns who would never think of complaining because 'it's Disney'. ... Well, guess what, there is nothing in the world that can not be questioned on complained about, the least of which would be a an $88 billion corporation that runs theme parks.

If something bothers you, the absolute best time to deal with it is the present. I found that out over the weekend when I had a craving for pizza and stopped at the mall foodcourt, which has decent pizza. Well, two slices and a Pepsi were $10.14 and I was almost feeling like I was in a theme park except it was very tasty. Well, the dude (who happened to be a 60-something manager) didn't hand me a receipt and I didn't think about it since I wasn't writing it off my taxes as a Spirited expense. But when I went to toss the tray I noticed the red 'if we don't gire you a receipt, your meal is on us'' signs on the registers. I couldn't exactly complain then. Or complain fairly because even though I didn't geta receipt, I didn't complain and note it at the time of the transaction. I am quite sure they'd comp me food if I returned, but not the point. ... You have an issue, you deal with it at the time and if it takes time and enjoyment from your trip then you nicely explain that and hope Disney provided some decent guest recovery.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The potential for both profit to corps and harm to individuals is impossible to quantify at this point. ...But maybe in two decades when we're all implanted with iChips and our every move is simply data, then folks might take their privacy seriously (seriously, if I hear one person tell me 'I don't care, I have nothing to hide, I'll find something that they do have to hide ... it's (sadly) quite easy in 2013)

I am one that has made that statement and perhaps I should clarify. I do care about my privacy, but my privacy and my wanderings in a theme park are two completely different things. Same as with stores. They collect data as well but only data that pertains to my in store participation. It neither controls or influences what I buy or how much I spend in or at that establishment. Track all they want...I know it won't change a thing as far as I'm concerned. If I want a Mickey Bar, I'll buy one...if I don't, I won't buy one. I find it hard to understand how they will change that in any way.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't think Everest is a bust - it's just that it's stuck in DAK and it alone can't keep people there all day.

If Everest was the same type of coaster in the MK or DHS.. I bet it wouldn't get that same kind of doubt.

Reality is.. DAK alienates a lot of people.

Reality is Disney has taken the stop and smell the roses, slowly walk through a park to discover what's around the bend philosophy and placed it alongside boating, horseback riding, tennis and spa treatments.

It's all about riding Space Mountain 15 times in three days (why anyone would actually want to is another subject).

DAK sorta harkens back to the old Vacation Kingdom of the World days, which is likely one reason why I love it so much and would rather be there than at the Tired Kingdom. But many of today's guests simply do not have the time and/or money to stand and watch the tigers for 30-40 minutes like I sometimes do. They don't have time to soak the beauty of the atmosphere in because they're paying $8,000 for 10 days and they have to RIDE ALL THE FREAKING RIDES AS MANY TIMES AS POSSIBLE!!!!

So, I almost sorta agree. I think DAK is an alien in the WDW UNIverse of park-going. You simply can't approach it like the others, certainly not like the MK.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

It depends on what exec suites you happen to work in ... right?

True. The execs in the suites off of Turkey Lake Rd. will be popping corks soon enough!

 

[WDW1974]

What? If we go off the last TEA numbers published it had more people through the gates than the park which has a nighttime show, more traditional attractions:

DHS: 9,699,000
DAK: 9,783,000

Sure DAK alienates people ...

So the fact DAK pulled more clicks than 'something' - that means it is universally loved and adored by the majority? Your logic is pathetic. By the same logic I could compare it to any park that pulled more and say 'see.. DAK DOES alienate'. That is absurd.

DAK vs DHS means nothing to the original statement.

Now, now, Flynn ... you seem a wee bit touchy. ... or actually more like Nick Franklin these days.

You need to relax. Georgie K is on the way and happy days will be here again.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Reality is Disney has taken the stop and smell the roses, slowly walk through a park to discover what's around the bend philosophy and placed it alongside boating, horseback riding, tennis and spa treatments.

It's all about riding Space Mountain 15 times in three days (why anyone would actually want to is another subject).

DAK sorta harkens back to the old Vacation Kingdom of the World days, which is likely one reason why I love it so much and would rather be there than at the Tired Kingdom. But many of today's guests simply do not have the time and/or money to stand and watch the tigers for 30-40 minutes like I sometimes do. They don't have time to soak the beauty of the atmosphere in because they're paying $8,000 for 10 days and they have to RIDE ALL THE FREAKING RIDES AS MANY TIMES AS POSSIBLE!!!!

So, I almost sorta agree. I think DAK is an alien in the WDW UNIverse of park-going. You simply can't approach it like the others, certainly not like the MK.

If you approach DAK like most approach the MK, you'll find themselves standing there at 10:30am saying, "Now what?"

 

[nytimez]

I am one that has made that statement and perhaps I should clarify. I do care about my privacy, but my privacy and my wanderings in a theme park are two completely different things. Same as with stores. They collect data as well but only data that pertains to my in store participation. It neither controls or influences what I buy or how much I spend in or at that establishment. Track all they want...I know it won't change a thing as far as I'm concerned. If I want a Mickey Bar, I'll buy one...if I don't, I won't buy one. I find it hard to understand how they will change that in any way.

I can just about guarantee (but, admittedly, with no way of proving it) that one of these two statements is true:

1) You don't know your own consumer behavior as well as you think you do.

2) Other consumers - most other consumers - don't behave in the same way you do.

 

[GoofGoof]

That is the crux of that comparison and where it goes bad. The more you spend (whether casinos or airlines or hotels) generally the more perks you get. Yes, actual FREE stuff or services not given to others etc.

That doesn't look at all like what Disney is going to be doing with MyMagic+. It's simply taking the concept, gutting the loyalty aspect (the glue that holds it all together and still finds me flying United when they destroyed MY airline, Continental) and thinking the remainder is all that matters.

When I pay more to fly 'my airline', I do so expecting to often be seated in First Class for FREE. I do so expecting to not have to be nickel and dimed over luggage. I do so expecting that I can visit my airline's club for free Internet, comfy seating and the ability to chug back 2-3 free Bloody Marys before my flight.

That's too bad. I use casino, airline and hotel loyalty programs and they do work. I will always try to fly or stay somewhere based on where I have an account. I think if they came up with some good perks the program could work. Why invest $2B in something and then not use it properly? Just stupid.

 

[nytimez]

An EPCOT project appears to be inching forward shockingly.

Any hints on this?

 

[WDW1974]

Yup.. it requires establishing a 'new' love.. and that new one never overwrites the original.. it's just a new, separate one.. leaving the old to grow in nostalgia. Usually making the old typically 'immortal' and insurmountable - putting the 'new' at a disadvantage from the start.

For me, it was a long break in the mid-nineties for about 10 years that made me out grow Disney's veil of supremecy. I will say tho.. DCL is as close to the old Disney as I have seen. And why I signed up for another massive cruise after my first before I even left the ship.

Actually, TDR is. Mindblowingly so in the most important ways (sadly, their merchandise largely sucks).

But DCL is certainly close ... and why I'll be sailing on them again this year!

 

[Californian Elitist]

I didn't see this before I responded (trying to work on something for business, check out shore excursions for my upcoming DCL voyage , do laundry and post is a deadly combo!) ... But I'd like those answers as well.

I have read far too many folks about the state of WDW and at the same time list 37 trips to WDW resorts in the last 12 years and they NEVER even stay off property or visit other O-Town parks and wouldn't dream of going to DLR. I do NOT like that mentality as my pal @raven24 will tell you or @Lee (but raven is better looking, although Lee likely has a better singing voice!)

How dare you?! Disney is king... No one beats them! And you have the nerve to call yourself a Disney fan. Mickey Mouse forever!(meanwhile, construction continues at Universal...) -__________-

When I finally get to Florida to visit WDW, I will come back to California and patiently wait for you and @Cosmic Commando to move to the Golden State. I'll hold my breath while I'm at it to speed up the process.

 

[WDW1974]

Is the Epcot project "Wow, cool, amazing" or is it "That is neat" or is it simply "Oh boy".

Way, way too early to say. I'm just happy there's real talk and it looks like an important loose end is about to be tied.

And talking of Shanghai how many spinners are they up to now? 3? 4? Oh also have they fixed that story telling problem in their Pirates with huge Keira Knightly face?

The more I hear about their E-Tix, the more worried I get.

 

[WDW1974]

re: Transformers. I have heard that they will start cycling ride vehicles through the system TOMORROW. And that the TM training schedule has been moved up by a month.

Just thought I would throw that out there.

I am a bit surprised by that, but shouldn't be. ... I know your info is generally great, but I want to ask around on that as I thought they had a ways to go.

But I do know they want this baby open ASAP ... and it will likely be huge while Disney markets it's modest Fantasyland project (are Memaid's SQ issues solved yet?) and these absurd small-time events like the one at the Canada pavilion or the older foamheads coming back. (As an aside, take a look at what DL is doing in January and February for its part of LTM and ask if TDO has outright contempt for fans and guests in general)

Oh, and SW has its COLD new attraction coming too.

It's OK, the Disney fanbois will talk about the two-minute kiddie coaster that's arriving in 14 months. (imagine my Dr. Evil smiley here!)

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Way, way too early to say. I'm just happy there's real talk and it looks like an important loose end is about to be tied.

Like Tony coming back to swamps?

The more I hear about their E-Tix, the more worried I get.

Hong Kong all over again?

 

[WDW1974]

I have to disagree with you on your analogy ( dare I disagree with 74) In your scenario I believe it is a more of....we made a mistake and I am going to give you a $400 a night room for $20 more. Versus when you might be at the check in desk and they say....hey instead of staying here a POP we can get you a room at WL for $240. Thats more then the 30% we are advertiseing. As I have said the resort experience is much different then the park experience. Now in thier ads I suppose they will include some type of "upsell" package with extra FP's...or the extra magical experience. Hence the in your face upsell.

No, I get you. Two different kind of upsells. I was talking about the one in the past ... you have a possible model (likely, perhaps) in the future.

 

[WDW1974]

'74, please say the Epcot project that may be going forward ISN'T the DVC in world showcase or even built in the parking lot... Please say it is something in the park that will actually make the park better, and no, I'm not talking another dining option... I mean an attraction.. A full fledged attraction...

It is indeed an attraction (perhaps two).

DVC in the parking lot is/was very much a blue sky deal. Sorta the same (but not exactly) with World Showcase, but wouldn't expect that for a long time if ever.

 

[Beholder]

Reality is Disney has taken the stop and smell the roses, slowly walk through a park to discover what's around the bend philosophy and placed it alongside boating, horseback riding, tennis and spa treatments.

It's all about riding Space Mountain 15 times in three days (why anyone would actually want to is
another subject).

DAK sorta harkens back to the old Vacation Kingdom of the World days, which is likely one reason why I love it so much and would rather be
there than at the Tired Kingdom. But many of
today's guests simply do not have the time and/or
money to stand and watch the tigers for 30-40
minutes like I sometimes do. They don't have time
to soak the beauty of the atmosphere in because
they're paying $8,000 for 10 days and they have to
RIDE ALL THE FREAKING RIDES AS MANY TIMES AS
POSSIBLE!!!!

So, I almost sorta agree. I think DAK is an alien in the WDW UNIverse of park-going. You simply can't approach it like the others, certainly not like the
MK.

This pretty much sums up my feelings concerning AK and how the park is often (unfairly I think) viewed. Wonderful detail designed to be taken in at a completely different pace than the other parks.

 

[Lil Fort]

Let's see, a holiday weekend is ending. And what's news in the Disney community?

Well, how about the DVC at FW being 'postponed indefinitely' ... my take on it was that's going to cost too much money to develop due to its amazing location (you know, one that Disney has actively let rot since 2001)...

Have I told you lately that I LOVE you! That is the best news that I have heard all week! While I would love to see Disney do something with the rotting abomination that used to be River Country, a new DVC is the last thing that I would want to see built there.

Here's an idea... If they want to add DVC to the Fort, why don't they add timeshare campsites? It is a campground after all, and I know plenty of people who would line up and pay a premium to have a campsite on the lake. Just think of all of those million+ dollar Prevosts out there that are just waiting for that special slab of concrete that they can call their very own (at least for a week or two out of the year). I know that DVC campsites wouldn't command the premium prices that DVC suites would, but the initial investment to add a couple of DVC campground loops would also be substantially less than what they were planning. Just a thought. Call it a 'smart' way to 'value engineer' the project.

If you get a chance, feel free to plant that idea in the ear of someone who can make it so...