Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

Tadifer

Member
I have little doubt that your roommate speaks for everyone when they claim that "people love it." Well, actually I do, but that's for another discussion.

And Steve has set forth a forum here to discuss TWDC, warts and all. If you don't like the tone here, you certainly have other options of DIScussion. But you're not going to find people unwilling to have a critical eye at this $1B+ boondoggle when those monies (in part) could have been invested in new rides and attractions to bring people in, as they did at DCA.

Actually, I never once said that they were speaking for everyone. In regards to that statement, it pertained to pass holders such as myself. The people who go all the time, and want to be able to try out the new system. I'm sorry that you feel like you have to be rude simply because someone has a different opinion than your own.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I've been a member of this site for 8 years, and have NEVER seen such negativity. It's just sad, that's all.

Nextgen and FP+ seem to be very passionate topics and probably justly so. The amount of money spent exceeds entire parks. This is pretty much the largest investment in WDW since EPCOT. I have a bigger problem when people nitpick small things and blow them up into big issues or just look for problems in anything new like FLE. There was more pure, unjustified negativity in the threads about Casey Jr Splash Zone than this one. Some of the people who are complaining about NextGen do have valid arguments or at least you can see where they are coming from even if you don't agree IMHO.
 

Tadifer

Member
No, an educated consumer isn't their best customer. . Disney isn't doing this for the "educated consumer". They're doing it for the regular park guest. The families that make Disney a once in a lifetime event. They have no concept of "the way it was" because they didn't experience it AND THEY DON'T CARE. Disney could require guests go through an obstacle course and people would still go. They know this. People go to the new Test Track without any knowledge that it was anything but that way since it opened. Likewise, when the system is fully operational, there will be guests who show up who have no idea that it hasn't been like that since day one. I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that all guests do hours of research before coming to the park. I could have sworn that people show up to the park I work for, and legitimately think they're in Disney World and ask where Mickey is. Wow!
 

Nemo14

Well-Known Member
Given the cost of a Disney vacation and the plethora of planning information available now, I think the "regular park guest" no longer just shows up.
 

Mouse Detective

Well-Known Member
No, an educated consumer isn't their best customer. They're doing it for the regular park guest. The families that make Disney a once in a lifetime event. They have no concept of "the way it was" because they didn't experience it AND THEY DON'T CARE. I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that all guests do hours of research before coming to the park. I could have sworn that people show up to the park I work for, and legitimately think they're in Disney World and ask where Mickey is.

But you see, you just listed what concerns so many people on here. On the one hand, you have the uneducated Disney guest who come to WDW once in their life with little research. And since they didn't read up on it, they have no clue what kind of personal information they're signing away their rights of privacy to, for themselves and for their minor children. On the other hand, their experience at WDW is potentially diminished because they failed to book their FP reservations six months earlier and thus they have to wait in the regular line with all the other uneducated guests! That's why there is so much concern about NG on here.
 

Tadifer

Member
But you see, you just listed what concerns so many people on here. On the one hand, you have the uneducated Disney guest who come to WDW once in their life with little research. And since they didn't read up on it, they have no clue what kind of personal information they're signing away their rights of privacy to, for themselves and for their minor children. On the other hand, their experience at WDW is potentially diminished because they failed to book their FP reservations six months earlier and thus they have to wait in the regular line with all the other uneducated guests! That's why there is so much concern about NG on here.

What's so wrong with Disney knowing that your child likes Tinkerbell and visited her last year, and in turn Tinkerbell knowing the child's name and being able to tell them they remember him/her? Wouldn't that make for a positive guest experience? Also, I was pretty convinced in their announcement it was stated you didn't have to plan FP in advance, nor did you have to use the system at all. FP will still be available even if you didn't plan them ahead of time.
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
I can see it now......

CM: "Ah Mr. smith, we hope you enjoyed your visit to Splittsville last night....I see you rolled a perfect game on lane 10."
Mr. Smith - "I didn't go to Splittseville last night. I was back in our room sick."
CM: " Well Mr Smith, Magic never lies and our new system does confirm you were at Splittsville bowling with another female guest who isn't on your reservation, while the remainder of your party was enjoying the fireworks at the MK."
CM: "Mrs. Smith, we can provide detailed info to help with the divorce for a nominal fee. "
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I can see it now......

CM: "Ah Mr. smith, we hope you enjoyed your visit to Splittsville last night....I see you rolled a perfect game on lane 10."
Mr. Smith - "I didn't go to Splittseville last night. I was back in our room sick."
CM: " Well Mr Smith, Magic never lies and our new system does confirm you were at Splittsville bowling with another female guest who isn't on your reservation, while the remainder of your party was enjoying the fireworks at the MK."
CM: "Mrs. Smith, we can provide detailed info to help with the divorce for a nominal fee. "

Not beyond the realm of possibility. EZ-pass (toll system up in the northeast) has been used by divorce lawyers to prove infidelity. When the husband says he was in a business meeting in Philadelphia that night but the EZ-pass shows he took the bridge to NJ where the mistress lives he's busted. The moral of the story is if you plan on cheating on your spouse while on vacation at WDW go to CityWalk;)
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
No, an educated consumer isn't their best customer. . Disney isn't doing this for the "educated consumer". They're doing it for the regular park guest. The families that make Disney a once in a lifetime event. They have no concept of "the way it was" because they didn't experience it AND THEY DON'T CARE. Disney could require guests go through an obstacle course and people would still go. They know this. People go to the new Test Track without any knowledge that it was anything but that way since it opened. Likewise, when the system is fully operational, there will be guests who show up who have no idea that it hasn't been like that since day one. I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that all guests do hours of research before coming to the park. I could have sworn that people show up to the park I work for, and legitimately think they're in Disney World and ask where Mickey is. Wow!

Irony. The problem with the idea of people just going to see WDW without doing tons of prior planning with this new system is they might get left out of seeing the best attractions.

Also, the reason why there's such negativity is that Disney isn't seeming to keep up with park maintnenace or infrastructure, quality is declining in a lot of areas. So instead of spending part of the $1-2 Billion from NextGen in getting new monorails which are badly needed, or fixing the falling debris and animatronics that never work, they're invested everything into this new system that a lot of people have concerns about. This system which only seems to help Disney's data mining more than the overall guest experience.
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
What's so wrong with Disney knowing that your child likes Tinkerbell and visited her last year, and in turn Tinkerbell knowing the child's name and being able to tell them they remember him/her? Wouldn't that make for a positive guest experience? Also, I was pretty convinced in their announcement it was stated you didn't have to plan FP in advance, nor did you have to use the system at all. FP will still be available even if you didn't plan them ahead of time.


I don't need my children to be ridiculously catered to and that's what all of this reeks of. We have a major problem in this country of over-inflating children's egos and sense of self worth, which is psychology one of the worst things that you actually do for a child. See, little Becky thinks that she's so important that her favorite princess remembers her by name. You get what I'm saying? Just like my kids getting trophies for every sport that they play in. They're participation trophies. I remember when you got a trophy because you earned something, now everyone gets one. I have no problem with some memento for participating, but it's another example of this completely out of sorts culture of me, myself, and I. It's all summed up with the notion of "I'm special."

I'm indifferent to the RFID tracking details, but do know that I'm not going to wear a wristband. No thanks, however, they at least will have a card workaround.

You're right about FP, but that's another area to be realistic about. More FP, more lines for non-FP. More tiered systems. I feel bad for the people (and yes, there are still many) that don't have/use smartphones, etc., and are shut out of the process.

Again, I think that it's funny that once you get down to the nuts and bolts of everything and with all the discussion, this is all about revenue. It's all about playing into the self-absorbed parents and their children in order to pad the profit margins all the while not addressing the gaping holes in their product. Product at WDW that used to be defined as attractions, not gimmicks and meet and greets.
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I just don't get it. Tokyo "suits" still wear actual suits in the parks there, while the Anaheim "suits" do sort of an upscale business casual look, with occasional sightings of sport coats and/or neckties. And the WDW "suits" are in a much different league, not even tucking their short-sleeve shirts in any more.

But senior executives announcing a Billion dollar program to the media on launch day? Nick Franklin, who like many of us won't ever be confused as a male model, was wearing slacks and a blue shirt, with his shirtsleeves turned up at the wrists. I picked up on it immediately, because it's just such a shleppy look. It's an acceptable look for cubicle work and going over the latest TPS reports before running to Subway for lunch. But an Executive Vice President launching a Billion dollar revolutionary consumer initiative? For that, it just looks slobby and like the guy doesn't care about his project or its customers.

I think what makes these guys think their lowered dress code standards are acceptable is because a legit genius like Steve Jobs used to appear on the stage of the Moscone Center wearing jeans and a turtleneck. But a Nick Franklin is no Steve Jobs, and he simply comes off looking like a guy from cubicle 520E about to make a Subway run for his buddies working on the TPS reports. Put a coat and tie on, man! :rolleyes:

Just take a look at a typical tourist in most parts of Asia and here in States. I'm not advocating wearing a suit or formal attire to visit a theme park, although many years ago that was standard fare, but people for the most part are sloppy messes and have no dignity. It's quite the reflection on American society as a whole.
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
No, an educated consumer isn't their best customer. . Disney isn't doing this for the "educated consumer". They're doing it for the regular park guest. The families that make Disney a once in a lifetime event. They have no concept of "the way it was" because they didn't experience it AND THEY DON'T CARE. Disney could require guests go through an obstacle course and people would still go. They know this. People go to the new Test Track without any knowledge that it was anything but that way since it opened. Likewise, when the system is fully operational, there will be guests who show up who have no idea that it hasn't been like that since day one. I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that all guests do hours of research before coming to the park. I could have sworn that people show up to the park I work for, and legitimately think they're in Disney World and ask where Mickey is. Wow!

I agree with your post, but don't you see this is a major reason why WDW is going in the direction it is? They can dumb-down their offerings whether it be a lack of new shows, parades, etc, keep their attractions barely maintained, and can offer little new, while charging more because the average guest only goes once or twice in their life and hardly does any research into what WDW is or where they are even going.
 

awilliams4

Well-Known Member
I'm not one of the negative people and I have actually been one of the few defending some aspects of this "experiment", but I would flip your question on you and ask you why you come on here if it's annoying and too negative? Just don't log in. Try another Disney site. There are many out there. This place is great because of the give and take and sharing of opinions. I like hearing others opinions even if I disagree with them. If you look around in various threads there is a lot of love for WDW. NextGen is still pretty confusing and many, me included, do not see the money being spent resulting in enough of a positive change.

If the contemporary consensus on these boards now is to complain and tell those that are suggesting that there is nothing but complaining now should go elsewhere, shouldn't WDWMagic be changed to WDWSucks first? WDWMagic sure does mislead some in thinking this is a place do something besides complain about WDW.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
If the contemporary consensus on these boards now is to complain and tell those that are suggesting that there is nothing but complaining now should go elsewhere, shouldn't WDWMagic be changed to WDWSucks first? WDWMagic sure does mislead some in thinking this is a place do something besides complain about WDW.

You are free to talk about whatever you like. If you are looking for less negativity about the brand, may I suggest the Trip Planning forums?
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Your response has nothing to do with the post. The boards are flooded with negativity now......when it is pointed (out on multiple occasions now), those that point it out are told to go elsewhere. If that is the consensus, then the domain name has become misleading, misdirected or misguided. Everyone can spend their whole lives here talking about how much TDO sucks....but if that is the case, why not just change the name so everyone that does visit now knows in advance what the gathering here is all about.

My response has everything to do with your post. You do not like negativity. So I was directing you to a less negative area of the forums. I see you have been a member here for quite a while, I am sorry you do not see the decline in quality at WDW something worth discussing, but many of us love WDW and are very disappointed with what has happened to the resort.
 

IWant2GoNow

Well-Known Member
Me no like reading others concerns. Me only like what concerns me. Me hate negativity. Me make everything better. Me should combat negativity with more negativity instead of me avoid situation. :rolleyes:

99% of the people who decide to take the time to sign up for this site LOVE Disney. Why else would anyone bother to search for such a place & post if not? I love my dog. But if he whizzes on the carpet I get annoyed with him & scold him. Why should our love for Disney be any different? If you don't like what you're reading, move on. Random posts telling other posters you don't care for the feel of the thread is not going to change anyone's mind on the subject matter whatsoever.

NextGen is unproven with major privacy concerns amongst other things & costs a LOT of $$$ that all of us have lended to in some form or another. We have a right to be concerned about the future of something we love. And in terms of my analogy above, there's a lot of discolored carpet stains at WDW.

Edit: This includes the one @WDW1974 made a spirited patch for in Storybook Circus...
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Going back to the Brooks Barnes article: one of Bruce Vaughn's points of pride is the fact that MyMagic+ ostensibly personalizes the WDW experience by allowing attractions and characters to directly interact with guests using information gleaned from the data on his or her MagicBand.

But, other than very young children, how many guests affirmatively value or desire this type of personalization? (I'm not discounting young children; obviously, they are an important demographic to Disney parks. But, especially where there clearly are legal and ethical issues concerned, a functionality that appeals primarily to the very young simply can't be a substantial justification for a multi-billion dollar program.)

When a rudimentary form of personalization was introduced on the E.T. Adventure over two decades ago, it attracted attention because it was a novelty... but it never became more than that, nor was it ever viewed as any sort of cutting-edge enhancement to the traditional theme park experience. Although what Disney is doing certainly has the potential to go far beyond a wrinkly grey animatronic mispronouncing your child's name, it's not substantively different in that this type of personalization has never been warmly received by the public.

In the science-fiction movie Minority Report, Tom Cruise's character enters a Gap store, where a cheerful virtual employee greets him by name and asks him how he's enjoying a previous clothing purchase. The scene does not come across as a flattering or optimistic portrayal of future technology -- rather, it was generally taken by audiences as a negative commentary on and satire of how targeted advertising was progressing in 2002. As such, it was both creepy and amusing in its exaggerated depiction of intrusive marketing. Audiences did not view such consumer personalization as something to aspire to, but rather something to avoid.

When "personalization" is -- as the word itself suggests -- premised on personal interaction, it can be incredibly meaningful. But that entails the existence of, at the very least, an actual familiarity. When someone with whom you have a genuine relationship -- such as a trusted, longtime family doctor -- addresses you by name, it is gratifying and appreciated, but largely because that person has earned the right to interact with you with that degree of familiarity.

In contrast, when companies and organizations with whom you have never had any kind of personal relationship send you junk mail letters addressing you by name, the personalization immediately rings false because it is a function not of familiarity but purely of marketing. It is insincere, because it seeks to invoke a degree of familiarity that is unearned.

I agree very strongly that "personalization" is fundamental to a fulfilling, even (dare I say it?) magical Disney vacation -- but I disagree that having an animatronic bird directly address each guest (Vaughn's example) is the way to do it. In a way, Disney has been a pioneer in guest personalization all along, simply by creating deeply immersive theme park experiences.

When the theming, set pieces, effects, and soundtrack of an attraction are so engrossing that the guest easily suspends disbelief and feels, for just a few minutes, that he or she is an integral part of the fantastic narrative that the attraction tells -- that's personalization. You don't need an animatronic pirate or ghost to call out your name, because emotionally and mentally you're already fully immersed in their story -- it's become your story purely by virtue of the storyteller's skill and your own imagination.

Now that is true personalization... and that is what Disney needs to do -- by going back to its own strengths -- to provide its guests with deeply felt experiences that will make them want to come back again and again.
This is exceptionally well put.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
The personalization aspect of this is surprising. Is it just me or is Disney reaching too far with this, meaning that they're trying to integrate everything into one wrist band and historically when they try to make technological leaps where they are clearly out of their element it usually fails.

Most recently we can look at Test Track where the syncing of your vehicle with your RFID reader is inconsistent. At a meet and greet, this may be easier because you can scan your RFID wrist band right before meeting Cinderella, but what about rides? Nothing tells me that this is going to work seemlessly.
 

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